replacing the hitch/brake cylinder

[poverty stricken II]

I was wondering if anyone has changed out their hitch/brake cylinder on thier trailer. I know mine is shot and needs to be replaced. There is a lot of slack when towing and no trailer brakes. The trailer is a 1987, and currently in storage so I can not check anything at this point but I am getting parts around to do it in the spring. Seeing that it is a 1987 should I just place on buying wheel cylnders, pads, and new lines. Also anyone has any idea on cost for a total replacement and/or where I can get parts?... Thanks for the ideas and info.

[Splitshot115]

PSII,

I'll send you a link for parts when I get home.

Splitshot115

[lakebound88]

are you sure that youre fluid may just be leaking out? and are they adjusted properly? that will make for alot of play!

[holy mackerel]

http://shop.easternmarine.com/

I think it was about $60 a wheel for a complete assembly, cylinder, shoes and backing plate. everything is ready to bolt on. Maybe $120 for actuator/ hitch. Did it a couple years ago. I was told not to bother rebuilding the master (hitch) cylinder because of parts cost and rust removal. Its an easy job. Good luck.

[Splitshot115]

PSII,

Try this place they have everything:::

http://www.trailerpartsdepot.com/index.asp?CartId

Splitshot115

[jimski2]

Ohio outlawed surge brakes on trailers, you may need to spend your money on electric brakes. North Carolina is shaking down Yankees passing through for trailer brakes. SC, GA and FL do not care if you have brakes.

[skipper19]

The Federal motor carriers safety administration has up dated the federal rules for surge brake equiped vehicles to include these guidelines. These were designed to clear up (but somewhat complicated) the patchwork of state law problems associated with interstate travel with a surge brake equipped trailer. I think if you are traveling through a "skeptical" state such as Ohio (believe me I know) that you really should have a GVWR plate from the manufacturer permanently attached to your trailer and have ready access to the GVWR rating of your tow vehicle handy in case you are pulled into a state inspection scale for safety inspection, here too in New York, (entirely possible these days due to state budgets looking for extra revenue) all trailers are being checked regularly these days, farm trailers such as stock and horse trailers are a primary target now as well. There is a ratio formula applied to the GVWR of the trailer against the GVWR of the tow vehicle. If these are not readily available for the calculation the state will probably issue a ticket for that in spite of the federal ruling.

In general there are many safety requirements for trailers and tow vehicles not limited to brakes. be sure your breakaway system is intact and working and all your safety cables and chains are functional and attached securely, and of course your lights and tie down systems are working. tires etc etc etc.

Remember when you are out on the water there are those law enforcement guys out there that cruise the launch parking lots looking for potential tickets, and when you come back, there is your reward stuck on your window for making it from point A (home ) to point B (fishing) without being caught. Going back to point A becomes less pleasant at that point.

OK...to answer the original question, I think you are referring to the hitch/actuator system rather than the wheel brakes, I have replaced my surge brake/hitch on my trailer entirely with a new one. It was leaking from the master cylinder and the master cylinder is expensive. There was no readily available kit to rebuild it so I just replaced the whole thing hitch and all. There were some other issues with the hitch as well so it seemed the thing to do was replace the whole thing, quick and easy and less fuss about whether the parts would fit or work in a rebuild. Be sure if you replace the surge brake actuator that it is rated for your trailer's GVWR or higher so you don't run into the problem with the tow ratio thing. Also bleeding the brakes is alot easier with two people or get a one man bleeder kit (cheap at most auto supply).

In general the hitch/brake combo was only about twice as much as the master cylinder at about $160 vs $80 for just a master, and it cleared up an issue with the breakaway system as well. Keep the actuator greased and it will work very well for years to come. Hope your wheel cylinders are OK and the bleed screw doesn't break off. Then there's a new project.http://shop.easternmarine.com/ (where I got my hitch, a Tiedown model 70E for 7000lbs)

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulati ... 3480023923

d) Surge brakes. (1) Surge brakes are allowed on:

(d)(1)(i) Any trailer with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 12,000 pounds or less, when its GVWR does not exceed 1.75 times the GVWR of the towing vehicle; and

(d)(1)(ii) Any trailer with a GVWR greater than 12,000 pounds, but less than 20,001 pounds, when its GVWR does not exceed 1.25 times the GVWR of the towing vehicle.

(d)(2) The gross vehicle weight (GVW) of a trailer equipped with surge brakes may be used instead of its GVWR to calculate compliance with the weight ratios specified in paragraph (d)(1) of this section when the trailer manufacturer’s GVWR label is missing.

(d)(3) The GVW of a trailer equipped with surge brakes must be used to calculate compliance with the weight ratios specified in paragraph (d)(1) of this section when the trailer’s GVW exceeds its GVWR.

(d)(4) The surge brakes must meet the requirements of §393.40.

NMMA (National Marine Manufacturers Admin.) specifically states that a large number of private boat owners are personally using surge brake equipped trailers. Some of those trailers are for larger boats that would require a GVWR in the heavier range of 12,001 to 20,000 pounds. The fact that no safety problems relating to surge brake performance have been reported by the marine industry or by State and local highway safety officials, as a result of that usage on the public roads, suggests that these trailers and their braking systems are safe.

General or approximate GVWRs for most models of towing vehicles covered by this rule are commonly known. FMCSA will ask the Commercial Vehicle Safety Alliance (CVSA) to make these values available for use when towing vehicles between 10,000 and 16,000 pounds do not have a GVWR plate. If OSHP (Ohio State Highway Patrol) is concerned about overloaded towing vehicles, all existing enforcement procedures remain in effect for dealing with vehicles loaded beyond their manufacturer's GVWR. OSHP has the authority under the State version of Sec. 396.7 (adopted pursuant to MCSAP) to remove such vehicles from the road, and this provision is incorporated in the North American Standard (NAS) Out-of-Service criteria.

Hope this helps

(but then there are those isolated cases of getting a ticket in lieu of the facts and statements of federal law)

Mark

[HPORT]

I'm looking to replace my surge actuator with an electric over hydraulic unit, eventually. This will give the best of both worlds, electric actuation with break away protection and hydraulic brakes on the trailer. I trailer in the hills and going down steep grades into the Finger Lakes has its share of problems with surge brakes. The unit is pricey, but fits my particular needs better and is legal in all 50 states.

A complete 6600lb hydraulic drum brake system from most trailer suppliers will run you about $400 for a single axle and $ 650 for dual axle brakes.

[skipper19]

Electric over hydraulic is the very best system. Holds on a uphill that a surge won't do, brakes when you brake, unlike de-cellerating on a downhill where you are using compression low gear controlled speed to keep heat buildup down on the brakes. When you low gear down a hill there is pressure on the actuator from the hitch and can cause the trailer brakes to do all the work. Let's you backup with brake action when you want it. Last but not least, no underwater wiring and electric components to foul up.

I have suspected the bumping and bouncing of the trailer on the surge hitch has caused me to get worse fuel mileage due to the pumping of the actuator all the while. Maybe not but I haven't got anything to compare it to except a 34 foot fifth wheel camper that pulls easier and gets better mileage with the same vehicle pulling it, weighing 10000 lbs compared to a boat and trailer that weighs 6000 lbs. hard to figure why.

I would go with discs on the axle. less junk to get inside of the drums and easier to maintain.

Mark

[Knotlost]

If anyone is converting going to electric is the best reasonable choice. I think the electric over hydraulic is a bad idea. I have a big history in the trailer industry, and have no idea how many trailer breaks I have worked on, but here is some truth. With breaks the application will dictate what style of breaks needed. The best break is the simplest one that suits its application. Most people have only limited experience with 2 or 3 systems on just a few application's for both, so its very limited experience at best. I would bet most people only have experience with 2 types on 3 trailers. There are many systems that have been used with all sorts of results from great to poor. But any break system will not be working like new for long, so what system is the best once its well used?

That makes it easy electric for everything until you get into weights that need air breaks. Everything Else is junk in my opinion, with that said a bunch of crazy combinations have worked, sometimes for some, but not in a way that gives any real advantage to the puller. But they are overly complex and every failure point is a weakness. Now if anyone comes up with a story of how breaks made a "GREAT big DIFFERENCE" I will bet they were pulling to much load with to little of a tow vehicle. Do not compensate with a break system for a out sized tow vehicle. Keep your breaking system simple with electric breaks and a good quality break controller, that makes a big difference. You get what you pay for with break controllers so don't try to save a bunch one one.

With a good break controller and electric breaks on any boat trailer you have a perfect system for the right sized towing vehicle and no break system will do a better job any more efficiently, don't let anyone kid you. Then spend the money on lures and have fun.

Just my opinions, not trying to insult anyones boat trailer or preferences.

[HPORT]

OK, I'll bite...

Why is electric over hydraulic a bad idea?

I have had electric and air on my deck trailers, they both work great. My boat trailer has surge and it seems to me at least, the electric over option would give me what I'm looking for.

[Knotlost]

In my opinion remember I'm not trying to insult anyone, but the problem is it over complicates the break system.

If you get a good break controller it will break the boat like it should be braked, very simply with . Now with that said sometimes people don't know how a trailer should break (the trailer brakes should come on just before the tow vehicle) and that little "bump" some people don't like, where an experienced driver is looking for the "feel of breaks coming on" so he knows all is right in the system.

The other systems work, but have way to many parts and dozens of extra fail points. I have seen the hydraulic breaks go wrong in about a dozen different ways, but most common is the system gets contaminated by water. I'm not sure why but it seems like after they get 3 to 4 years on them they all leak both ways - oil out and water in. In my opinion they don't make them durable enough for the out door elements on the long hall. They are fine for 3 years thats all the warranty worries about it seems like to me. I if you have the perfect storage out of the sun, and rain, and are one of these guys that baby's your gear, it may last a long time.

I don't baby anything, and want a system that needs no babying and the electric are the ticket for almost everything. all my trailers live out side permanently.

[poverty stricken II]

Splitshot thanks for the link. Outbound, I have thought about the fluid being out (which I am assuming that is it is). The brake system has never been checked or serviced since new, 25 years ago. The tab on the top is broken off (emergency brake), thinking that the hook was forgoten that it was attached to the truck when someone pulled away. I am thinking that a complete system replace would be the best bet over trying to deal with 25 years of wear and tear.