scared!!

[salmonboy41]

Ok I don't care what anyone says there is no where's near the amount of trout and salmon in the lake as there used to be!! ok i'm a 21 years old and i've fished for trout and salmon from the time i could walk and i'm totally crazy about them. but i've seen nothing but decline in the numbers of trout and salmon in the lake and it scares me, like i'm the only one concerned? question will they ever truely rebound to the hey days? and with all these invasive speices i don't get it you would think that they would have got the message when the zebra muscles go into the lake but no they didn't!! and now theres these stupid carp that should have had there path into the great lakes cut off mounths ago but it wasn't, and i'd just like to say i'm tired of having my passion and my other peoples passion and even lively hood be put on the back burner!!!! I just hope that the trout and salmon don't go the way of the blue pike!

[Paul Czarnecki]

Hmmmm....quite a rant for someone only 21 years old!

I'm not going to disagree with anything you said but where are you fishing? I've been professionally fishing Lake Ontario since 1988 and with the exception of the last year of the 80's and the first two years of the 90's I think the salmon and trout fishing is as good today as ever. Perhaps better. The zebras have cleared the water necessitating changes in our techniques and brown trout and lakers have discovered gobies which also present another challenge but its like anything else----things change and you must adapt. I hear the same complaints all the time from deer hunters who refuse to adapt to a changing woodlot, environment, urban encroachment and changes in deer themselves. You must adapt to be sucessful.

BTW.....the salmon and trout fishery in Lake Ontario will never go the "way of the blue pike". Blue pike were a native species. The trout and salmon in Lake O are stocked. The only way the salmon will disappear will be if a Democrap in Albany decides that the welfare babies in New York City "deserve more" and the sportsmen of NY deserve less.

[alloutdoorsman]

Well said Paul! its hard to sum up the lakes status when your just over 2 decades new to the lake! to those of us that have fished it longer than you have been alive we are estatic that the lake is still producing good numbers and good size which we were sure would go the way that some of the other fisheries have gone! To the DEC and other orginazations that have helped maintain our fishery we solute you and please keep up the good work!

[larry]

SB, don't be scared, this is really a new beginning for the Great Lakes. If you could have seen how bad this lake was 40-60 years ago, real scary, you'd understand how far we've come from what had become a wasteland from the industrial revolution. It's up to each generation to leave the next a better place than they found and certainly the positive progression is noticeable or you wouldn't have enjoyed the fishery that didn't exist just 40 years ago.

The "hay day era" was really the result of pollution (phosphates) causing huge algea blooms that fed an abundant population of alewives in the lake, which by the way are an invasive species as well as the primary forage of trout and salmon. Atlantics and lakers were the native species to Lake Ontario, Kings, Browns and Steelhead are all exotics, non-native species that were introduced to the lake to control the population of the alewives which would have huge die-offs and stink up every inch of shore line on the lake.

The experiment worked and a thriving fishery was created. It worked too well though and with a couple of bad winters and cleaner water (less algea for zooplankton to feed on which is main diet of alewife) the excessive alewife population had declined and was getting weak, it's protein value down to 20%. The stocking of the lake had to be cut back to a support level that wouldn't collapse the forage base and allow for some balance between predator and prey. So you are correct that there are less fish being stocked but the ones out there are healthy and fat.

There is a lot more information available (shameless LOU Ad ) now to help catch greater amounts of fish than ever before. This man-made ecosystem will always have new challenges and threats to be addressed, so keep up the vigilance and voice your concerns to those that have been empowered by the people to listen and act on our behalf, so you're kids will have the opportunity to enjoy this fishery the way you shape it.

[Penn yan 88]

larry, does that mean we cant run 6 downriggers?

Rob

Hideout

[salmonboy41]

Larry I totally agree with you. I've heard the stories about how the lake was so polluted that it could damn near start on fire lol, and i know that the salmon and alwiefs are not native, but like you siad there isn't the numbers anymore and yea the fishing is still the best in the world i think its more of these carp that have got me scared just looks like one more nail in the old coufen

[Shade]

Very well said gentlemen and my republican friend Paul. Fishing has changed dramatically over the years. back in the early 70's (before Paul made his way to the big"O") the fishing was better, however the fish you caught where not eatable. You also back then (the week end fishermen) took his 15' boat,used manual downriggers, open face reels and a $40.00 depth finder and caught fish, big fish. Same goes for hunting. You went into the woods brushed the leaves away from a tree ,strong your recurve bow with wooden arrows or loaded your improved cylander shotgun with open sites and you hunted.

Todays world we have 30 -32' boats, $2500 fish finders, $200 rods/reels, $500 downriggers, cell phones, radar units, 1,000 different lures and flashers, GPS units,rifled barrel guns, scopes that can see a fly at 500 yards,compound bows that shoot 300'/second,tree stands that are 25' feet in the air and scent lock clothing.

The game we hunt and fish still have the same sense of smell, same site, live in the same habitate, eat the same food, they reproduce the same way for hundreds of years.

Either our wildlife is attending MIT, RIT or Harvard or because of the decline in numbers along with the hunting/fishing pressure forces us to use such technology. Mmmmmmmmmmm

[Paul Czarnecki]

Very well said gentlemen and my republican friend Paul. Fishing has changed dramatically over the years. back in the early 70's (before Paul made his way to the big"O") the fishing was better, however the fish you caught where not eatable. You also back then (the week end fishermen) took his 15' boat,used manual downriggers, open face reels and a $40.00 depth finder and caught fish, big fish. Same goes for hunting. You went into the woods brushed the leaves away from a tree ,strong your recurve bow with wooden arrows or loaded your improved cylander shotgun with open sites and you hunted.

Todays world we have 30 -32' boats, $2500 fish finders, $200 rods/reels, $500 downriggers, cell phones, radar units, 1,000 different lures and flashers, GPS units,rifled barrel guns, scopes that can see a fly at 500 yards,compound bows that shoot 300'/second,tree stands that are 25' feet in the air and scent lock clothing.

The game we hunt and fish still have the same sense of smell, same site, live in the same habitate, eat the same food, they reproduce the same way for hundreds of years.

Either our wildlife is attending MIT, RIT or Harvard or because of the decline in numbers along with the hunting/fishing pressure forces us to use such technology. Mmmmmmmmmmm

That.......or maybe we're just lazier than we used to be or we take things for granted.

That reminds me Howie, why does a fish of today turn his nose up at the same spoon that so many of his relatives fell for 10 years ago? Why does the deer stand that produced so many deer 15 years ago produce so many zeros now? ANSWER......things change! The environment, the habitat, the fish, the deer, the ducks and geese and MAN. We "think" we need all that stuff because we refuse to accept the fact that everything has changed around us. I need a new video this year or I'm not gonna catch any fish. Anyone have any suggestions?

[Shade]

Paul,

You are absolutly correct, but if you want that stand to produce every year then place a food source by it and watch the results. I believe in change, just look at my quote and we need to adapt if we want to be successful. We could ask why questions all day, like why by just adding a piece of tape to a spoon turns it from a non productive spoon to hot spoon.

Last year there was a post asking what were the top 3 spoons that produced. There where 40 different fishermen both charters and week enders who responded which equaled to 120 spoons. Out of the 120 spoons 66 where NBK's (made by NK and MS), the next closest was 8 Sea Sick waddlers and 3rd was 7- 42nd spoons. This goes to exactly what you said to us one time "use the luire you have confidence in". I can not catch a fish on an NBK, but put a Moonshine carb 14, Glow frog or a Spook and we have some fun, WHY?

All I can say is if you charter captains did not help us out with techniques most of us would not catch many fish. Maybe I should say helped me out, I can not speak for all who are on this post. You guys put in the time and have the expertice and knowledge to locate fish the rest is up to us to learn from that. I put a lot of time scouting my property year after year searching for that trophy and i hope i can put in more time researching the habits of Salmon and adapting to the changes to be more successful.

Shade

[Capt Vince Pierleoni]

Now this is an interesting thread, all started by a rant of a 21yr old! Excellent responses guys. Paul, I didn't know you were such a gifted writer. Shade, thanks for appreciating charter captains. I have always said we are ambassadors for the fishery. This is never more true than during the so called "off" times when many retreat to other bodies of water. The guys that are grinding it out during the "transitions" prove that good catches can be obtained.

You guys have done a great job of enlightening the young angler. The only points I would add are, the average angler is so much more educated than they were years ago. Even with the same amount of fish around, you are sharing them because the average angler is more proficient. If you are looking at what returns to the tribs, the same thing applies. People snap them up quicker, especially at places like the Burt Dam.

I have felt that with this increased knowledge and skill, that stocking numbers of Salmon could be increased without any repercussions. We are often met with every excuse under the sun when this is brought up, so concerned sportsmen are doing the next best thing for now and promoting and supporting holding pen projects.

To the 21yr old angler, make sure you make the "State of the Lake" meeting closest to you. Learn and express your concerns. We need people like you. They are open to the public and sites like this one should have dates and times soon.

[Has Been]

Evil Eyes, Flutterchucks, Suttons, Cleo's , & J plugs etc. all still work. But there are better options some have more confidence in.

[FISHINMAN]

Paul I like the Democraps comment

I have fished this lake for 25 years now for trout and salmon and started out when I think our new friend here, Capt. Vince was still working at Kodak full time (I worked with Robin at Stouffers Hotel back then) Back when I started we "rowed" a 12 foot aluminum boat between Bear creek and Ginna flat lining Andy Reekers with the poles in our hands to catch brown trout Try an Andy Reeker today

I bought my boat in 1994 and the fishing was very good for the first 3 years then dropped off a bit for a couple years for me anyways .

I at the time had pretty much learned everything I knew from the friend that got me started in big lake fishing (or as my wife would say the guy that she has to thank for all the fishing stuff I have wasted our/my money on over the last 25 years ) I didn't know any charter Captains who's brains I could pick for info and didn't know of forums like this or others that discussed and taught things about trolling the big lake. That's when I met Steve Drave aka King Me who helped me and told me about little things like flouro carbon leaders, speed and temp units and other things that would help improve trolling techniques and how to use theses things to help put fish in the boat. I think that's exactly what Vince is saying in regards to "the average angler is so much more educated than they were years ago. Even with the same amount of fish around, you are sharing them because the average angler is more proficient". I can say that my fish catching has improved over the last 5 years do to this point exactly. There's plenty of fish out there it's more of a matter of fine tuning and techniques.

Then I met Ray K and it was back to the mid 90's fishing for me again Just kidding Ray, but he says it at the bottom of his signature with "Always Learning Or Never Learning" if it's the later you're gonna have a hard time putting fish in the boat.

We have a great fishery here and all need to do our part to help keep it that way by continuing to contact our government officials that decide on what happens to our lakes, rivers and streams.