Asian carp.

[W.W.IV.]

How do you like these apples,according to New York Outdoor News the courts won't close the lock to keep out the Asian carp. Obama and his gang fought the proposal.Time to forget the three rod rule and see what you can get for your boats .. .

[GAMBLER]

Some one posted a link on another site that said there is a conference on this topic tomorrow in DC. I will try to find it when I get a minute.

[LOC Derby]

Urgent Notice

Call the White House on Monday!

On Monday in Washington, D.C., President Obama's staff is holding a closed-door meeting about what actions the federal government might take to stop Asian carp from entering the Great Lakes. While you can't see what happens in the meeting, you can call the White House at 202-456-1414 to voice your opinion.

Make Your Opinion Clear: Close The Locks And Stop Asian Carp From Entering The Great Lakes

If everyone who signed up at StopAsianCarp.com called the White House at 202-456-1414, the President would hear from thousands of people in the Midwest who want the locks closed and the Great Lakes protected.

Call Monday: 202-456-1414

So, on Monday morning, please grab your phone and dial 202-456-1414. Call the White House. Tell them you know there is a closed-door meeting about Asian carp today but you want your voice heard.

Permanently close the locks in Chicago before Asian carp can get into Lake Michigan and beyond, ruining our lakes and killing thousands of jobs.

Rumors of a federal plan that would leave the locks open most days have begun to be published in media reports. For example, under one scenario the locks would be open four days per week and closed three days. This makes no more sense than keeping criminals in jail four days a week and hoping nothing bad happens on the other three days. When will the emphasis be placed on protecting the Great Lakes instead of the narrow interests of one state?

Thank You For Your Help

Your vocal efforts on this issue have helped raise the level of attention paid to this crisis here in Michigan, across the Midwest and now in Washington. As our multi-state lawsuit continues before the U.S. Supreme Court, we can only hope that officials in charge will change their stance and announce immediate steps to close the locks and move toward a permanent separation of the Mississippi River and Great Lakes basins. With your help, we can make that happen.

Sincerely,

Mike Cox

Michigan Attorney General

[W.W.IV.]

Thank you L D.

[Shade]

I called the White House to voice my opinion but they said the comments department was closed do to the snow storm. They gave me an email address - http://www.whitehouse.gov/comment which is under construction so I clicked on "contact us" and wrote a comment on that page. The direct number to the comments department is 204-456-1111,

Shade

[salmonboy41]

Its ridicules how they won't close the locks, I mean I don't see the need for a discussion here, its a total no brainier, close the locks off completely and then turn around and kill all of the carp in the canal by any means possible.

O by the way anyone that disagrees about taking imitate action to stop the asian carp goes out for a boat ride and gets hit in the head with one!!

[LongLine]

Looks like they came up with something.

http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2010 ... house.html

Now the question is $.

Tom B.

(LongLine)

[Trolling82]

Kill the whole darn river. Any where there is asian carp just cyanide the whole area. Take a long time for the water to recover and then restock. From what I've seen of the muddy mississip there ain't much of anything in there that I'd worry about. If they can find a way to poison just the asian carp or something that'd be great but I would love to be able to expand my fishing from the fingerlakes to the big o some day. Once they get in the big o there won't be a way to get them out. Course if the big o gets them you know the fingerlakes are next. Imagine the only fishing to be had in the area is asian carp....

What's with the 3rd electric fence? Another 10 mil just to try to block them? If the other ones aren't working that great what use is a third? Just kill em all from the great lakes to the gulf of mexico any means necessary. Dump tons upon tons of salt into the river. Obviously they aren't big on salt water. Won't hurt running out of the mississippi basin into the ocean, and will not have a very long term impact on the mississippi. How much salt can you pick up for 10 mil?

Oh and hang the guy up to dry who brought them over from China.

And how is this chain link fence going to keep the young/small carp from passing through??? Bet a 6 inch carp would make a game out of it.

[LongLine]

They theorize that some fish went thru the barrier before it was brought up to current power levels. Also the poison they used was suppied by the NYSDEC. That farmer died a long time ago and actually he had a permit from the USF&WS in Arkansas. (and we all know what else Arkansas gave us)

Tom B.

(LongLine)

[LOC Derby]

The Asian Carp Workgroup (formerly the Asian Carp Rapid Response group) has just posted a new Asian Carp Control Strategy Framework to outline short- and long-term actions to be taken to prevent Asian carp from establishing themselves in the Great Lakes. The document is available at:

http://asiancarp.org/RegionalCoordinati ... mework.pdf

[GAMBLER]

Close the locks and build a ship yard. Ships on the Michigan side can deliver to the ship yard and the goods can be transfered to the ships on the Mississippi side. This way, no more issues with the carp and they can still ship things . This will also create more jobs in the area. You will need guys to work the ship yard and run more ships / barges.

[salmonboy41]

I'm with trolling82 on this close the locks and kill everything!! i mean its that simple because no matter what all the fish in the missippi are totally screwed anyways. the carp already make up 90 of all the fish in the river so what is really going to be lost by killing the whole thing. Plus it's got to be way less expensive then what there going to do anyways which isn't going to work knowing how the goverment is at actually acomplishing things.

[motoman]

Close the locks and build a ship yard. Ships on the Michigan side can deliver to the ship yard and the goods can be transfered to the ships on the Mississippi side. This way, no more issues with the carp and they can still ship things . This will also create more jobs in the area. You will need guys to work the ship yard and run more ships / barges.

GAMBLER what a good idea , a giant shipping hub would make good sence and seeing all the money being spent or planning too be this would be a good deal for everyone and make more jobs on both side's of this.

[L&M]

Michigan attorney general says no deal with feds on Asian carp

By The Associated Press

February 10, 2010, 7:06PM

TRAVERSE CITY, Mich. — Michigan’s attorney general said the Obama administration offered to settle a legal dispute Wednesday over how to keep Asian carp out of the Great Lakes, but no deal was reached. Mike Cox told reporters he and attorneys general from five other states in the region discussed the matter in a conference call with a Justice Department official.

Cox said he couldn’t legally provide details of the talks because they were confidential negotiations toward a possible settlement. But he said Ignacia Moreno, an assistant U.S. attorney general who handles environmental matters for the department, offered no changes in a $78.5 million strategy released Monday.

Michigan and most other Great Lakes states have described that plan as inadequate — largely because it doesn’t close shipping locks in Chicago waterways that could give the invasive carp an opening to Lake Michigan. “Absolutely no headway was made and we’re still stuck with this policy which will wreak havoc on the Great Lakes,†Cox said.

Phone and e-mail messages left with the Justice Department were not returned, and its media voice mailbox was full. Many government offices in Washington were closed because of a severe snowstorm.

The U.S. Supreme Court in January rejected Michigan’s request to order the locks and other structures on the waterways closed while a permanent solution to the carp threat is sought.

Michigan asked the court last week to reconsider and is pursuing a separate lawsuit that seeks a permanent separation between Lake Michigan and the Mississippi River basin, which are linked by an engineered network of rivers and canals near Chicago. Briefs in the lawsuit are due Feb. 19.

Supporting Michigan’s legal position are Minnesota, Ohio, Pennsylvania, New York and Wisconsin. They fear the giant carp, which can get as large as 4 feet long and 100 pounds, will infest the Great Lakes and devastate the $7 million fishing industry there.

Illinois and the federal government oppose closing the locks, which would disrupt cargo shipping on the Chicago waterways. The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers has said it will consider opening them less frequently — perhaps several days a week, or once every other week.

Cox, who is seeking the Republican nomination for governor in Michigan, likened that alternative to “operating a county jail where you lock up the inmates four days a week and the other three have them operate on the honor system.â€

[jeb1340]

LOC Wrote:Urgent Notice

Call the White House on Monday!

On Monday in Washington, D.C., President Obama's staff is holding a closed-door meeting about what actions the federal government might take to stop Asian carp from entering the Great Lakes. While you can't see what happens in the meeting, you can call the White House at 202-456-1414 to voice your opinion.

So much for Obama's transparency cries! What happen to the guy that said lets bring C-SPAN in and get this settle. He can't even discuss carp without running behind close doors.

I agree concrete and salt sounds like an excellent idea. Use the railroad money that was promised to construct a rail system from the lake to the Mississippi and have a cargo and passenger rail.

[Splitshot115]

This report came up this morning. Looks like another dog and pony show.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_asian_carp_great_lakes

[ITO Flies]

I live about 40 miles from the locks on the Southern Edge of Lake Michigan. I work for the national park here and I have been doing a program on exotic species for a while and one of the things that I have found is that the Illionis River is not the only way for the Silver and Bighead Carp to get into the lake. A professor in Wisconsin did a study and found 26 possiable routs for them to get into Lake Michigan. So even if they close the locks the darn things are still going to find a way in.

It is going to be a bad thing when they get in that is for sure but I do not think it is going to be as bad as they are making it sound. For one thing the carp need river type current for them to spawn! There eggs can not lay on the bottom they have to keep moving. If they lay on the bottom and get covered with anything the eggs will not hatch. Also there are fish like the goby, another exotic, that will just love eating there eggs. Second they will want to stay around the warmer water like the shad. So once you are a mile or two off shore there should not be many carp out there. Now given you will have to keep you head down on the way out but once you get out you should be good. Also when these fish are jumping it is at higher sppeds, trolling speed they will just swim away from.

In My Opinion we need to start looking at what do we do when they get in the lakes! Commercial netting for them, remember they are the #1 farm raised fish in the world. Major stocking program of native predatory fish, the northern pike would be a good one! I am sure there are other things that can be done but it is NOT going to be the end of our salmon and trout fishing. Maybe they will majorly increase in Salmon and Trout stocking to help control them!

[LongLine]

Ranger – welcome to the board.

You’ve got some interesting points there but I’d like to mention a few more.

Lake Ontario is a very fragile ecosystem. We’ve lost a lot of phyto & zooplankton already. Invasives have hurt it a lot in the last 20 years.

The warmer nearshore areas (within 2 miles) are very key to the survival of all aquatic life in Big-O, especially the salmonoids. Gobys have put a real hurt on the bass populations. Gobies are now a large percentage of the biomass. (We really don’t need to give them another food source.) Lake Trout spawning beds are now threatened because of the Gobies & mussel infestations.

A lot of money has been spent to restore the fisheries over the past 40 yrs and Sports fishing is bringing in major dollars to our local economies. Variable Trout & Salmon reproduction is now an established fact. Even sturgeon are beginning to come back. They need the rivers and we do not need to have them sharing the rivers with carp. The Niagara and the Salmon River have the best flows and these are the major grounds of the Salmon & Trout.

The lake has many underwater currents in it. Oft times they are stronger than the outflow currents of the tribs. Some sediment from the Genesee River gets carried all the way to the thousand islands.

During the 7 month fishing season, of the trout & salmon, Browns are rarely deeper than 100 FOW and generally less than 1 1/2 mile offshore. They’re often caught in 8 FOW or less for the 1st half of the season. Salmon are caught shallow for at least ½ the season. We find them around the tribs and bays early then again late in the season.

I can’t imagine the havoc these invaders would cause during the start of the Pro/Ams when 50-100 boats leave port at top speed to get out there. Also while we’re fishing we often see many other non-fishing boats zipping around out there around us. The boat launch at the Genesee River is approximately ¼ mile away from the lake with a speed limit of 6 mph. How many people will have to turn around due to injury? How many will be scared away? How many will sell their boats & take up golf?

Trolling for Salmon & Trout is not like trolling for other specie. We troll with main engines or some hefty kickers, not the electrics that bass guys use. Although the normal speed most use is in the 2.5 mph range, many guys are finding that up to 5 mph is effective. The videos I’m seeing of the DNR’s show they’re not traveling much faster than typical trolling speeds.

As for commercial fishing, that’s what ruined our Fishery in the first place. Nets don’t discriminate and incidental kills would be frequent. You’ll find the stationary nets are the nemesis of sportsfishermen in both Michigan and Canada. They’re banned here in NYS. I understand that canning factory on the Illinois River is having a lot of trouble marketing carp as even dog food plants don’t want them. (They may be popular in Asia as a food source but Americans have different diets and generally don’t eat dog.)

Brown trout are beginning to eat Gobies but that’s because it’s taken 10 years and some are hard pressed to find other food. Salmon won’t touch them as they eat alewives and the alewife population is more in balance today with what the lake can sustain than ever. Northerns may eat them; however, their population seems stressed right now. (VHS, etc)

As for the other 26 routes, if asked by the governments, I’m sure many Great Lakes Trollers would be happy to volunteer to help deliver plenty of Rotenone.

Tom B.

(LongLine)

[ITO Flies]

And I agree with you longline. It will cause a lot of damage I was just trying to make people aware that it is possiable that there might still be a fishery. Sure it will be not the ideal situation but I think there would be some type of fishery! And I guess when I said nets I should have said the live trap nets not the gill nets. And I heard they were going to start calling them by a different name so that they may be able to market them more.

[LOC Derby]

I received this email today that talks about a hearing to be held on Wed. There is supposed to be an Web site where you can watch it and comment. I will post that information as soon as I get it.

If you have time Wednesday watch the meeting in Ypsilanti Michigan on the internet even if it is just the first ten or fifteen minutes... and make a comment... you can tell them that "over the past ten years they have failed to prevent the Asian carp from reaching Lake Michigan... the Framework is nothing new. We are depending on the same agencies that failed for the past ten years to prevent asian carp from reaching Lake Michigan to execute this new plan. Why should we expect the results to be any different, they will not. The Army Corps of Engineers have a proven track record of failure to stop the goby, then the Asian carp, they have demonstrated they have no sense of urgency protecting the Great Lakes. Close the locks NOW on the canals to prevent more carp from reaching Lake Michigan. Take aggressive actions to kill those carp that have breached the barriers."

I need everyone to make a comment similar to this... it goes into the public record. The Barge operators were well organized at the meeting in Chicago it was overwhelming against closing the locks. If we lose this battle the Great Lakes will not be so great anymore. For my friends on Lake Ontario this is not so far from you that it is not important, there is the Welland Canal and fish do survive the plunge over the falls.

Please send this to your friends who are interested in the health of the Great Lakes ... send it right away, there is not much time. If anyone can go to the meeting in Ypsilanti (near Ann Arbor Mi.) Please go, we need to make a big showing. I am certain the barge operators in Chicago are bussing in supporters. See you in Ypsilanti.

Thomas Marks

NY Director

Great Lakes Sport Fishing Council

7004 Waring Circle

Derby, NY 14047

716-997-6919

[LOC Derby]

http://www.epa.gov/greatlakes/live

Here is the link to view the webcast of the meeting in Ypsilanti Michigan. Probably should get to the site a few minutes before 6 pm. There will be a place to comment on the site.

[salmonboy41]

Ok getting really tiered of this. let me break this down to you RangerRyan

1. asian carp eat 40% of there body weight each day in plankton.

2. the bottom part of the food chain is Plankton which means if its gone everything dies.

3. Invasive speaces like zibra muscles have eating a huge percentage of the plankton in the lake already.

4. I really don't want to get head by an Asian carp IKD maybe some people get off on that.

5. This is america we don't eat carp!

6. trout and salmon are basically the most sought after game fish in the world.

7. decrease in the number of salmon effect charter capitans lives, and the DEC because no one is going to want to buy a licence to catch nothing.

8. if the carp aren't stoped now they could every well infect many other lakes.

9. Whos great idea was it to bring this carp in O yeah it was the so called experts, thanks.

I hope this list makes my piont clear! We don't want some F'd up fishery we want the fishery we have and these carp will destroy everything.

[ITO Flies]

Salmonboy I know all of these facts and I would not deny any of what you said I am just trying to bring up the point that most people only see the doom and gloom and do not even realize that the "Experts" have said we really do not know for sure what is going to happen! IMO we should fill in the river below the electric barrier and be done with it!!!! And my brother is a charter captain on lake michigan and that is his only means of living so he would be SOL!!!

I just want people to have as much information as they can and that is why I posted in thei thread to make people look at all sides of it so that they dont think if they get in that you might as well just sell you boat and fishing gear!

[Shade]

This may be dumb but I need to say it anyway. I have lived around Buffalo all my life and I remember some years back when the Core of Engineers diverted the Niagara River so work could performed on the Peace Bridge pillars. It was a sight to see. Were the Peace Bridge is the water runs around 30 mph. I also remember as many of you do they even shut off the American falls to do some research on the corrosion of the falls wall.

What I do know is the Mississipi is a mile wide and it speeds runs from 1 mph - to 10 mph and it flows south. The carp are swimming up stream.

Here is what my suggestion would be - build some kind of dam high enough that the carp could not leap, while still allowing the water to flow would be going south which would not allow the carp to spill over. This would allow the carp to pool and that is where the best chance to destroy them would be. I do not know how close they are to entering Lake Michigan and exacly where they can dam up the river.

I am not an MIT graduate but if we can put a man on the moon, shoot a missle 9 miles from an aircraft and place it down a smoke stack we can eliminate a fish.

If these carp enter the Lake ...game over...check mate.

Shade

[ITO Flies]

Shade the state of ILL will not close the locks so there is no way they would build a Dam. The canal is not natural it was built to divert sewage from lake Michigan down the Mississippi! Now the shipping industry uses it and that is why they will not close it. Again the lobiest win out over the good of the people. Thanks Washington!