What are you people talking about?

[A&M]

As someone who has fished all my life, I joined the LOU community in hopes of finding information, advice and friendships based on a common interest. Sadly, I seem to have found more ignorance, political partisanship, religious zealotry and whacked out paranoia than I ever imagined I would find on a "fishing" forum.

Yes, I'm an environmentalist and likely far more "left" than many on this board and it's become so uncomfortable to read many of the posts here that I probably won't bother any more. After this post, most of you will likely be happy about that too.

I just read the post "Disturbing Article" and the comments after it left me shaking my head. I'm still not sure what was so disturbing when it seemed that the worst thing that could be said was that recreational fishing and related jobs aren't receiving any priority in the Obama administration or that NOAA hasn't shown any overt dislike of recreational angling...but is instead "indifferent". The rest of the article is filled with paranoid references to big bad government ending bear hunting in Ontario, banning led in tackle and groups citing "overfishing" that are supposed to make us afraid. Be afraid, be very afraid, seems to be the mantra. Seems "fear" is a much used commodity these days.

What is so objectionable to you about protecting the environment? I would have thought people who fish would also be members of the Greenpeace, Friends of the Earth, WWF (...OK...maybe not PETA!) Who more than all of us wants to protect our environment?

In the interest of some balance (in case any of you are even remotely open minded) you might find this article on the World Fishing Network website enlightening: Great Lakes Restoration Initiative Action Plan Unveiled http://www.wfn.tv/gogreen/blog.php?blog=402650

I can only imagine the horror and disbelief of some of you when you read: "President Barack Obama has committed to making Great Lakes restoration a national priority. In February 2009, President Obama proposed $475 million for a Great Lakes Restoration Initiative, the most significant investment in the Great Lakes in two decades." It also goes on to recognize that the lakes "support a multi-billion dollar economy based on fishing, boating and recreational activities." I for one am cheering that we finally have an administration that gets it!

I applaud anyone who speaks up to protect fishing and angling rights, but please...stop the the knee jerk political condemnations. These aren't left or right issues and people who didn't vote like you can still value the earth we live on and want to protect it for recreation and enjoyment.

I've also seen the posts here which fearmonger wind turbines in the lake and actually recommend nuclear power as an alternative. This is misguided at best. I lived in an environment polluted by the tailings of Uranium mining affecting the North Channel of Lake Huron. I'm sure not many of you know this side of the nuclear option...the myth of "clean nuclear power". You're so worried about wind turbines falling over or disturbing fish habitat....how will you react if there's ever a spill of radioactive effluent into Lake Ontario that leaves the lake contaminated for hundreds if not thousands of years? It only has to happen once. Or...maybe just small accumulations of radioactivity over our lifetime that someday catches up to us.

Anyway...I'm sure I'm not going to change any minds here. You don't like Democrats; you don't like the lunatic left wing; you don't like tree huggers; you don't like wind energy supporters. I'm sure that being a fellow fisher isn't enough to give my thoughts any credence.

But...I needed to say these things...and now I will leave you to your fear and tirades! Good luck.

Mikell

[Landshark]

wow

[Tim Bromund]

wow

mr pot, please meet mr kettle....... what did you just call him?????

[rolmops]

Hello Mikell.

You're not alone!

[Has Been]

Yup , I am very afraid of what looks like could be coming. The falicy that the "Green initiative " is for the betterment of the planet scares me. It seems more like a money & power grab to me & that scares the hell out of me. The decicion making for a while and much more so as of late makes me feel as if it's done for that & not for the best reasons for the people of THIS country.And they will stop at nothing to get what they want. Every day I see our"LEADERS" cheat & lie right to our faces in living color& when caught , nothing happens. Saying one thing to satisfy the constituancy & doing the exact opposite is why I feel so cynical.What party is in charge of it all now ?

[Has Been]

Also I get torn up pretty good for my stance on a few issues on here but I'm still around.

[BlueEye]

Mikell,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and opinions. Please recognize that the community here at LOU is not represented by a single person or a specified group of people but rather the IDEA of open communication regarding any and all issues concerning our fishery. We welcome your ideas as much as anyone else’s and hope to facilitate an environment that encourages the exchange of ideas absent of personal insults and broad rash generalizations such as what you have misinterpreted LOU of being above. Perhaps your thoughts ring to true to specific individuals (i.e., conservative, liberal, tree huggers, ect), but they, as you have above, also have a right to voice their opinion here on LOU.

My point, and only request, is that you refrain from generalizing LOU as a specific group of people and think of our hard work here more as an open community and environment that fosters the exchange of ideas and debate in a way that is professional and unlike any other fishing forum you will find anywhere on the web.

I understand the heated nature of such topics and ask all who wish to respond to keep in mind the site policy you agreed when you registered with the site and adhere to it (specifically the NO PERSONAL INSULTS portion) and focus on the debate at hand rather than “how stupid the other guy/girl isâ€.

We are all fishermen here and we are all working towards the end common goal of providing the best fishery possible for generations to come.

Thank you for your consideration.

[jkarol24]

I couldnt agree with Blueeye more. many of us fisherman have very strong opinions about the great lakes which some even rely on to put dinner on the table. There are hundreds of fisherman on this site, all with their own political veiws who wish to voice their opinions. The great thing about the country we live in is that we all have the right to express our opinions. This is not a site where a funded group spews political ideaology but a place where members can voice their own opinions. You are completely entitled to your opinion as am i as a member of this site. People need to hear both sides of the story and then be able to formulate opinions, as i have found this site to allow. However, we need to leave behind the personal insult. I dont think im speaking alone when i say that i appreciate your opinion even though i dont necesarrily agree with it. You and i have the constitutional right of free speech and you have a right to give your opinion, just as long as it is a priority to leave out personal insult. Thanks

Jason Karol

[on the lam]

I give you credit for speaking your mind Mikell, but its apparent that you are way LEFT, but I hope not a LOON.

How's that "Hope and Change" doing for ya? Socialism

BTW: that was a general statement, not a personal attack against anyone. I want to stay within that parameters set by Chad, which I thought were well stated.

[BlueEye]

Exactly jkarol24

[Gill-T]

Yes, the sentiments that Chad articulated are spot on. Please do not paint ALL LOU members with one brush stroke. We are a slice of America. All creatures .....liberal, conservative, lunatic fringe etc. are represented here. All expressions without insult are welcome, so if you can enlighten the viewers with FACTS without insults, then you will find a home here as well. As with any politically charged topic, usually the far right and the far left bump their gums and bang their fist the most, however, I think you will find that most of us are in the middle and can handle both sides of any arguement.

[axion2090]

ha that was rich....get over it...people have different views i respect yours although it makes me cringe that my fellow americans actually think socialism is good...not attacking you but to say your going to leave or whatever cause people dont think like u is pretty sad...instead you should just do what i do when some far lefty make a comment i dont agree with i chuckle and shake my head nothing is goign to change how people think....thats why america is so great we are allowed to disagree

[Fishtails]

Well said Chad.

A&M

While I don't typically participate in these discussions that you have been obviously offended by, I would think the first amendment would somehow come into play here. Remember that one...1st Amendment: Freedom of religion. Freedom of speech. Freedom to assemble. Freedom to petition the government. Freedom to call Barack Obama a bungholio (OK...I added that one )

And answer us this, how does your attack on the LOU community make you any different ?

Sadly, I seem to have found more ignorance, political partisanship, religious zealotry and whacked out paranoia than I ever imagined

I may not agree with everything I read, but I respect the passion that many here on LOU possess toward our fishery and I have learned much through these readings about doings that I was unaware of (being an out of stater and all). Yes, I think sometimes issues get blown out of proportion and I don't think Great Lakes Armageddon is at our doorstep just yet, but the time to band together and be heard is now.... before it's to late !!

It's almost spring, and soon we can all relax and go fishing Remember Amendment #2 ; Right to bear arms & fishing poles

[seasquirrel]

you don't like the lunatic left wing; you don't like tree huggers; you don't like wind energy supporters. I'm sure that being a fellow fisher isn't enough to give my thoughts any credence.

You got that right. I couldnt agree with you more. I dont mind wind energy though, I just dont like most of the options so far. Your rant was entertaining however, I got the same warm and fuzzy feeling I got when I read YOMOMMA's amnesty package.

[axion2090]

haha this is turning into my favorite post yet

[borderline 350]

Dear A & M,

WWF, Green Peace,Friends of Earth, PETA, Cousteu Society, & The Audobon Society are no friends of Fisherman, Hunters or any of my friends and peers. These are PRESERVATIONIST GROUPS not CONSERVATION Groups. I was warned 30 years ago of PRESERVATIONIST GROUPS such as WWF, etc. Everything I was told about them was very accurate and disturbing. Starting with EX DEC commissioner Peter Berle who stopped salmon fishing because of ENVIRONMENTAL FEARS! I haven't forgotten about Peter Berle and neither should you! I believe the Audobon Society rewarded him well for his stand against Hunters and Fishermen. History will teach you well if you take the time to live it!!!! I will now try to calm DOWN!!!!

Jet Boat Bill Tuesday March 9th!!! 3:30 PM

[spoonfed-1]

Politics aside, the environment is cleaner RIGHT NOW than it has been in the last 100 years.

We got to be doing something right. Balance and common sense can go along way.

And thats without the lake being polluted and shut down with windmills and without closing boat ramps and with all us fishermen still catching fish.

Mickell I respect your opinion and your right to state it but from what I see most of these organizations you mention would like nothing better than to take away our right to hunt and fish.

Obama was 100% correct when he was campaining on how the country needs change.

We need it, but a large amount of integrity and common sense needs to be in the mix.

Just not seeing it and I follow this administrations actions very closely.

Canals are still open and leaving the gate open for the Asian Carp !?

That can't be very environmentally friendly.

Inefficient, foreign made windmills, constructed in one of our nations natural wonders, stirring up long polluted sediment can't be very environmentally friendly either.

Don't leave on account of a difference of opinion. Stay and share your viewpoints with us.

There are two sides to every story.

Post some Sodus reports for us also when you two get out.

See you in Sodus.

Glen

[salmonboy41]

I'm with borderline 350 i'm tierd of getting pushed around and losing more rights by the minute, ppl like peta are crazy and don't look at the world in realistic veiw!

and as far as being left is concerned how can you be an outdoorsmen or women and support a group that wants nothing more then to stop you from being abile to hunt and fish.

[sfarm]

A&M I can understand your disgust with some things you read.I too feel disgust when I read about a person who cannot make a stand for what they believe in. I would like to call to your attention a quote from you.

"President Barack Obama has committed to making Great Lakes restoration a national priority. In February 2009, President Obama proposed $475 million for a Great Lakes Restoration Initiative, the most significant investment in the Great Lakes in two decades."

He says this and then allows stimulus money to go to other countries,why? He is allowing the lakes to be harmed by the installation of windmills,why? He says this and is refuseing to hear public comment on fisheries,why? Have you ever thought that he is LIEING to you?

I can tell you this myself and all friends of the fisheries I know WILL have him and all those who support him out of office on the next election

[Tall Tails]

Everyone is entitled to there opinion. Thats what makes the world go around.

[Gill-T]

Hmmmmm

http://sports.espn.go.com/outdoors/salt ... id=4975762

[LongLine]

A&M – I hope you stuck around long to read some of the replies.

I’m not sure what the US Zoning is going to do as they have not released any recomendations yet. I doubt very much though that they will affect us from a recreational or fishing standpoint. NY has many environmental conservation laws in effect and enforces them fairly well, unlike many other coastal states that basically do nothing.

You probably know that I am staunchly against Windfarms in the Lake. I am an avid fisherman and an Engineer. As for my being an environmentalist let me just say that in 2008, I received awards from the Rochester Business Journal, and the Environmental Business Journal and in 2009, the MVP2 award from the National Pollution Prevention Roundtable and was invited to Washington DC to receive an award from the USEPA for pollution elimination projects that I implemented at one of the historically biggest polluters in NYS & NJ. I currently oversee a recovery system that the NYSDEC refuses to establish limits on. (Thy're non-detectable & I’m up for their award, too) In the 90’s I received awards from Monroe County for other pollution elimination projects that I engineered & implemented. So I guess you could say I am somewhat of an environmentalist, however I am not a member of any of those organizations.

I am staunchly against Windfarms in the Lake. There are no intentional scare tactics on my part, only some basic research, facts & links to just about everything I’ve said. NYPA & power companies are in a hurry and claim “green†only because they want the green money before the tax credits run out in 2013. Cost & money is their only driver. Kessel pulled out of the Long Island project because of cost. NYPA has ignored the water environment. Their feasibility studies advise “destroy what’s there then plant a few trees or set aside some land later.†They also ignore the policies of other gov’t agencies, commissions & international treaties & the Great Lakes Restoration initiative is not on their minds. They even ignore the recent Copehagen Convention that issued a statement that “the world’s freshwater supply is dwindling and must be protected.â€

I’m not against windpower in general, but windpower in the lake disturbs me greatly, especially utility scale farms. I’m also against utility scale nuclear, coal, gas, hydrogen, ethanol, methane, soy bean, solar, hydraulic and any other type of power plant in the lake.

Please stick around, I think you and the majority of us have a lot more in common than you think.

Tom B.

(LongLine)

[salmonboy41]

ok ppl are allowed to have there own opions, but when there opion is that they like fishing but then there like i support and vote to put those in office who want to stop me from fishing, aka doesn't make sense your opion is valid only if it makes sense. like say i'd rather use down reggers to catch salmon then dipsies.

[goingagain2]

I give you credit for speaking your mind Mikell, but its apparent that you are way LEFT, but I hope not a LOON.

How's that "Hope and Change" doing for ya? Socialism

BTW: that was a general statement, not a personal attack against anyone. I want to stay within that parameters set by Chad, which I thought were well stated.

pete, I LOVE YOU

john

[on the lam]

I give you credit for speaking your mind Mikell, but its apparent that you are way LEFT, but I hope not a LOON.

How's that "Hope and Change" doing for ya? Socialism

BTW: that was a general statement, not a personal attack against anyone. I want to stay within that parameters set by Chad, which I thought were well stated.

pete, I LOVE YOU

john

Thank you John, Its because of men like you and my dad who are veterans (true American heros) that made this country what it is today, and molded my opinion as well. Capitalism and peace through military might is what made us the worlds power, its a shame some want to change that. IMHO