Fishing Derbies

[Hooked On U]

Recently a friend and I were talking about fishing and what we thought this year would bring for the fisherman of Lake Ontario. One thing that we both realized in our discussion was that there seems to be a lot of Fishing Derbies . Has DEC or anyone done a study on the number of derbies and their impact ( Tonnage of Fish Taken ) from the fishery ( Tonnage Stocked ) ?

Larry

[spoonfed-1]

Not that I know of.

Don't think it would be possible to monintor ALL the derbys on the Lake even if they had the money to do so. I know the DEC is involved with the Pro-ams and gather information obtained from those catches but thats about it for derbys and tournaments that I am aware of.

I do know that in my boat we hope to have a HUGE inpact on the tonnage that is taken.

Glen

[Fishtails]

Wisconsin did a study similar to what you are referring to. It's very infomative.

http://dnr.wi.gov/fish/fishingtournamen ... inions.pdf

[Capt Vince Pierleoni]

Actually, it is in the best interests of the fishery that all these derbies and tournaments take place. With all the threats that are out there, and potential policy changes looking for any "chink in the armor", angler trips utilizing the fishery are of utmost importance. I can say with complete conviction that the Lake Ontario fishery in the western basin has become a "contest fishery". There just aren't that many boats out on the water unless there is a derby or an upcoming Pro-Am. This isn't a bad thing, in fact, its a natural progression in what has become a mature fishery. It is very American. Competition breeds excellence and excitement, and the fish that are harvested are World-Class tablefare, highly sought after around the globe. The average angler only has so many vacation days and fishing dollars and they are going to spend them when it's most exciting.

Never apologize for any fish harvested in this fishery. It was the vision of the great fishery managers like Bill Pierce, that this fishery would be a put--grow--and take fishery. There is no better, or justified use of these fish. The money spent along the south shore by rec anglers, charter captains, and charter clients (not to mention the escalating license fees) is huge and absolutely critical to the areas economy. This isn't to say that we should ever disrespect the resource. We should always look to share by returning uninjured fish that won't be used back to the water. In my experience, catch and release fishing of trolling caught Salmonoids is best done in the cold water of Spring.

Spoonfed Glen, good for you, I'm sure you'll get your share as usual!

[A-TOM-MIK]

Exactly what I was thinking Vince !!!!

So much will come out of our tourney days in the end, without us our incredible fishery would not be near where it stands today.

On another level back in the early 90's we had drastic limits imposed on certain panfish takes to cure or counter the sale of such, since this was imposed many small fisheries are full of "dinks" due to the "under-take". Much controversy here in this issue but in places where we would take quality fish it is impossible to pull quality from certain areas now.

Attending any of 3 State of the Lake meetings may shed some light on the thought of tourney/angler impact. DEC in various ways are even eager to attend some events for their future references. It was mentioned last night how useful these times could be to future studies, targeting them is a plan for potential very useful info.

Tom

[Legacy]

If derbys and tournaments are what it takes for anglers to show a major interest in our fishery then the more the merrier. With angler numbers and the number of angler trips falling, we need all the promotion and support we can get these days.

[Has Been]

The biggest reason I am getting back in the game is the derbys which I miss.

[muskybob]

Hooked, please don't forget that these tonnage of fish are what the State AND our pen programs are a result of. Without the stocking programs, there would be no tonnage. Please feel free to support our fishery by donating to the pen project in your area or another if you have no preference.

[ERABBIT]

Not to start a fuss but how many of these Fishing Derbies / tournaments put ANY thing back into the fishery ? I can see where they help the area they are held in with $$$$ in there pocket and such . I once tryed to check into where the money's of a derby went and just got no where. I think it's ND that has a law that if you run a Derbies / tournaments that 5% or 10% went back into the fishery or a conservation fund of the (Derbies / tournaments) choice. One year at Lake Champain they were running a pike turny when the weight in was over they dumped all the pike back in by the launch. Many of which died.........this is just not right. I questioned the weight in of the Seneca Lake Trout Derby of just doing it for a chance of $10.00 drawning or what ever amount it is but someone is there taking ALL that info + a scale sample for the DEC. So killing those fish some good comes out of it not just money in someone pocket................go head blast away.............

[Has Been]

I belive just the fact of the derbys happening gives justification to the stocking program. The indirect tax revenue that result from participation is big. Also I think the derby organizers probably give back more than you think. I also don't think they make as much profit as some might think. As stated , those fish are stocked to be fished for .

[A-TOM-MIK]

Where is Gerry Bresadola or Troy Creasy. I am sure they could shed some light on monies donated towards our Oswego pen projects from our Oswego Pro/Ams, thus while they were involved. I am sure more actions are in place that many of us are unaware of, I do hear bits and pieces of ""Yup we were again able to generate $xxxx towards the pens this year" I hear this from our local little events from time to time.

Gerry Bresadola in association to ELOSTA holds monies generated for pens from various avenues. Tim B could also shed more light I am sure

Tom

[Capt Vince Pierleoni]

Good concerns, and justified. Best way to feel good about it is to take part in a bunch of them, meet the contestants and organizers. As for the U.S. Pro--Ams, many contributions have been made through contestants entry fees. In fact, much of the funding for the artificial reef built west of Olcott came from Niagara Pro--Am money. A very critical pump needed at the Altmar hatchery was purchased for the D.E.C. with Pro--Am money. Many rule changes have occurred for the Pro-Ams with conservation in mind. Because it is a goal to restore native specie Lake trout, the rules in the Pro--Ams only allow 2 in the Pro division, even though a 4 person crew could normally possess 8. The minimum size for most species on the lake is 15", the Pro-Am minimum is 18". This is so a team can't cooler a bunch of skipper kings just to score points, yet isn't too large to penalize Brown trout specialists. The Pro-Ams allow no culling, because as most of us know, the striking and fighting characteristics of Salmon and trout is all business out there. As I have stated in recent posts, gone are the days when noone wanted the fish. The contestants now keep them or there is countless people looking to have them. As for dumping fish, Pro-Am rules state that this is strictly prohibited.

In the Canadian tournaments, many of the contestants are dedicated volunteers who raise the Salmon from scratch. They do it all, with no stocking done by Ontario province. Thank God for them.

As for U.S. derbies, I can tell you southshore counties are grateful that people like Dave Chilson exist. Yes he treats it like a business, and he SHOULD. Without the profit motivation there would be much less organization and dedication. He is steadily revising his rules with minimum weights, so fish aren't killed for nothing. I wish many more things were run like a business in NY. As for all the new derbies, it is up to the contestants to conduct themselves in a sportsmanlike manner, and not participate in events that aren't organized with constant updates.

Yes there are bad events, and poor judgement, but we as Anglers need to lose this guilt trip about harvesting fish. It is WASTING fish that should never be allowed to happen. That comes down to all of us. Welcome back "Has Been", maybe now you will have to change your name! Good luck this year, I hope you catch a big one this year!

[Time Out]

Well said Vince. Another way to look at is that the lake has a put and take fishery for salmon. Salmon that are not caught either make it back to the hatchery to begin the stocking process again, or dye in the tribs accomplishing no reproduction( with exception to SR). If we don't fish, and take if we please, there would be no salmon fishery. As long as hatchery numbers are not effected, and forage base exists at a sustainable level, I see the tournaments as a very important venue.

[LongLine]

DEC does their creel survey to monitor total fish taken, but nothing specifically on derbies.

I'm guessing, but the take on longer running derbies like the LOC aren't that big after the first few outings because there's a leader board. If you're not going to eat it and have no hope of placing, I think a lot might probably go back in, in hopes of catching a bigger one. It also has minimum weights. Pro/Ams are a different thing. Vince covered that well.

Tom B.

(LongLine)

[Hooked On U]

I'd like to start off by saying, I believe that we all have the best interest of the lake and the fish, in mind, when we do things. Sometimes the things we do are NOT in balance with what we have to do it with. I surely don't know for a fact if that is the case. All I can do is ask the question. I do know, that the stocking numbers are down and Salmon fishing for the most isn't what it used to be. In the fall, we are once again having to run all the way to Salmon River to catch fish. Somethings Wrong ! If it weren't for the Brown Trout fishing, we would really be hurting.

I don't know if DEC has monitor such events (Derbies) and their impact on the fishery but I am sure WE would all be interested in knowing what that impact is . The Bilogist can put the numbers together. They sure collect a lot of data from us.

If we are going to be stewards of the lake and the fish in it, then I think, we should have the information to do a good job. Right now, I don't think we do. At least no one has come forward with it here.

Oh, bye the way, I do participate and support in the funding of the Net Pen Projects and belong to several fishing organization that support the lake fishery. I also participate in the Spring, Summer, and Fall lake wide derby.

Thanks for your response to my inquiry.

Larry

[muskybob]

Quote from the state of the lake meeting:

ANGLER SURVEY: Seasonal information every day from April thru Sept at 30 access points. Total effort was 77.9K boat trips which is up slightly. 62.6K trips targeted Salmon & Trout. Average 8.1 T&S caught by charters per trip. 2.8 T&S caught by non-charter. This is the highest on record. Catch per hour for non charter was .08. Internet exchange of information may have made fishermen better at catching fish.

Kings mean length was shorter and mean weight was lighter however fish are considered “average†condition.

Other Catch rates: B.T.s – delay in creel survey startup. Stlhd – Best fishing in last 2 years. Catch rate much higher than harvest rate due to length regulation change. LTs – “Blip†upward that was no surprise. Atlantics- Highest catch rate since 1994. 4th highest on record. Atlantic catch rate .12.

Looks like it's gonna be another good year all around.

[Has Been]

Highest catch rate on record. That is great news. I don't think that is doom & gloom. And thank you Captain Vince. I hope I'm not a year late.

[A-TOM-MIK]

Yep and also a serge in the last few years of the amount of weight our main forage is putting on (alewifes)

From Spring trolls to Fall trolls our Alewife are getting bigger faster than ever before !!!!

Eating our water fleas was mentioned?

Tom

[kingslamon22]

i think they do eat fleas and i think the smelt might be making a comeback too...

[LongLine]

Yes Alwives are eating water fleas and the bloody red shrimp. Although DEC has always questioned the energy content/food value of the fleas. Last years report (I haven't seen this years report yet) told of disected alewives having 100-200 of them in their gullets.

Tom B.

(LongLine)

[Patriot]

Hi Larry

How's things in FH? Same old stuff here at TP

It would be easy to get the information. All the DEC needs to do, is implement a mandatory registration form for all derbies. Then they would know what dates they would be held and could then check on catches.

Your used to be neighbors, Greg & Sue

[Hooked On U]

Hi Greg & Sue ,

We love it here.

Thanks for the Information. I didn't think it would be hard for DEC to collect the information.

Over and Out !

Larry

[Patriot]

We took a ride to FH last summer and saw where your camp was. Must be nice to wake up in the morning and see the lake

[Fishtails]

Hey Larry....just noticed you're from Allentown! It's nice to know there are fellow lake O entusiasts in the area. I'm 20 min. south of A-town

[chamberpresident]

Actually there was an article about the fishing in Oswego County last year in one of the Syracuse papers. They quoted a study by some Cornell people on the industry and impotrtant drivers of spotrfishing. Derbys,it turns out are the mainstay of the industry. Should derbys stop then the industry would suffer a significant blow.

If I can find the article I will post it for you. The Henderson Harbor Area Chamber of Commerce with Bill Saiff Outdoors is sponsoring and hosting the First Annual Salmon Spectacular. the contest will run from July 23 through the 25th. You can find out more by going to the website http://www.hendersonharborny.com.