Observations of an observer

[Richard Bullen]

Captains make the calls, living and reaping both rewards and guilt. Crews setup what how and depth capt states. the crew can be ridiculed by the capt. Good boats have a mutual understanding of these principals, some however remain rigid to accept change and relinquish of command is frought with fustration. before you observe for another boat find out a little about each team.

[bottom-feeder]

richard

i'm afraid i have to disagree with you

mayby on a charter boat situation the capt is in full comand as it is his decisions that put food on the table for his family

however: if a guy puts a team of friends together for a pro-am he is sure of the ability of those friends and would be willing to listen to each member and make a group judgement on the spread to run as each has an equal stake

as far as researching a team to observe for.... usually you agree to observe to help out a friend and you dont know the boat you will be placed on until the capt's meeting the night before the derby

if a group of guys cant fish for 2-days w/o ill feelings they better get there own boats or take up golfing

respectfully... todd

[spoonfed-1]

Each Team has their own way of doing things.

None of which are right or wrong to anyone else but the team itself. Bottom line is the Capt. or owner of the vessel is resposible for all that goes on on that vessel.

Glen

[ray koziatek]

sometimes too many cooks in the kitchen ant too good ,i feel better at the end of a derby if i make bad calls rather than butting heads during the derby...this year ive been off the lake a lot (only fished derbys and poorly at that), But with over 2000 hrs on the water in the last 4 years i know what program works best for my boat (i think) But im ready to give it another go or two ,If i still have a crew after this post...

[rail bird]

I observed for a good pro boat once and the thing that impressed me the most was the organization of the captain and crew. The captain drove the boat, one guy was in charge of spoons, one guy was in charge of flashers and flys. Each guy had rods they were covering. They might discuss what was the right thing to do but the bottom line was the choices were made by the the guy in charge of that particular thing.

[shadster]

Your job is to insure the integrity of the tournament rules. Making it a personal matter should not come into play. These tournaments can bring the best and worst out of people for obvious reasons. There is a lot on the line and some teams handle it a lot better than others. Regardless of what might happen, it is for the Captain and crew to sort out as a team.

[rolmops]

Probably every boat has its own dynamics.The perfect situation is where captain and crew are good friends,while at the same time the captain's commands are never questioned during the competition.

Questions and comments are for another time.

When I observed on the "Spoonfed" I observed that, that is how they work.

Maybe the PROs have too much at stake and that may make them act differently.

[Iceman]

What boat did you observe this on?

[GAMBLER]

I guess it all depends on what is worked out between the captain and the crew before game time. IMO, it is a TEAM event and all decisions should be made as a TEAM. Take what you learned in the prefish days and make up a game plan that everyone agrees on.

[traveling man]

heres my take. the captain calls the shots. he does not need his crew telling him what to do and have him loose his train of thought. if the captain wants opinions he will ask for them. when i fish on other peoples boats i don't give advice unless i'm asked. i have learned a lot by watching.

[GAMBLER]

It is different if you are fun fishing. If everyone is pitching in equal amounts of money (during derbies), they should have a say in what goes on. If I was paying the same amount as the captain and he was calling all the shots that would not fly. If the captain was footing a majority or all of the bill, then he can make all the calls he wants.

[spoonfed-1]

It is different if you are fun fishing. If everyone is pitching in equal amounts of money (during derbies), they should have a say in what goes on. If I was paying the same amount as the captain and he was calling all the shots that would not fly. If the captain was footing a majority or all of the bill, then he can make all the calls he wants.

Then that would mean you are also paying wear and tear on the boat and about one third of the many many thousands of dollars worth of tackle and electronics, insurance, fuel, oil, maintenance to make sure the boat is in top notch condition for tourney day and making sure there are spares of everything waiting to go instantly if needed while also "assumeing" you have as much knowlege and knowhow as the boat owner in regards to the equipment on board and the quarry being pursued or are you talking about splitting a $200.00 entrance fee?

Almost forgot the expense incurred getting the boat back and forth to the tournament port which can be substancial in itself.

No offense but I would give you back your $66.66 and leave you at the dock because you would be nothing but a distraction out on the lake.

A good rod man will do his job and that is making sure the fish that are hooked make it to the box. Period.

But like I said previously, every team does things differently.

Glen

[Time Out]

Hopefullyyou didn't forget the spare billage pump for Sodus

[spoonfed-1]

LOL. Forget?

The spare bilge pump went in as soon as I got back from Sodus last year as well as a new repalcement for the original.

You know from sinking at Niagara a few years back with a faulty bilge pump it ain't no fun. LOL

I think that would fall under the heading of wear and tear on the boat charge wouldn't it? LOL

See ya soon.

Glen

[GAMBLER]

Glen,

I was talking about the money for entry fees, gas (both to get the boat there and home again and for fishing), and other expenses.

[Has Been]

Bet it's a real hoot fishing the derbys with you Spoonfed.I wonder if KVD is looking over his shoulder. Nothing but Victory is accepatable. I think I would rather stay home. I get enough aggrivation at work. Can I intrest you in a few Chimps or better yet robots? Tote that barge , lift that bale..............

[GAMBLER]

Easy Has Been. It is his opinion and he is entitled to it. If thats the way he wants to run his team, thats fine with me. He has been a very good competitor in derby fishing. His way works just not for me.

[spoonfed-1]

Ah hell Has Been. You hurt my feelings.

But if given a choice between you and the chimp on the team, I'd have take the smarter of the two. Sorry.

Glen

[shadster]

lmaorotfpeemypants spoonfed.

[Has Been]

Yes Gambler, you are right . It's his opinion & team to do as he wishes with. . Spoony ,the smart one would be the one who said NO!Back to my read, Munity on the Bounty. Good night.

[Tall Tails]

I am with Glen on this the proven teams are as follows

Captain

Rigger

Driver in some cases also the Captain but not always.

2 rod man whos only job is to get the rods when they go off and put the fish in the boat-Period!!

People that fish with me on my teams know there job when they step on the boat. I believe wholeheartedly that more then 1 person in MOST INSTANCES deciding what goes in the water is a major hindrance to the boats program. As we know ALL boats fish totally different. What works on my boat will in most cases not work on your boat..... I have proved this theory many times over!!

Case in Point and I hope I dont give to much away Glen! LOL! Last year in Sodus when Glen wasnt sinking he was catching fish on the Fast side say 2.8 to 3.0 and he let me know of this as we work together. I dont typically catch fish at fast speeds, Glen finished his limit and I slide into his area when he was done and gave the fish my program at 1.8 and finished my box in an hour!!!

What I am getting at is to many cooks in the kitchen will keep you out of the money almost everytime. Nothing wrong with team meetings and lord knows the Princess (my driver) and I have a few of those on occasion.....But in the end its the Captains final choice! And yes second place is just the first loser!!!

Thats why the pro ams are not for everyone and thats ok!!

[Fishtails]

Glen, you sure do have a way with words buddy LMAO !!!

I think every team has their own dynamics that work for them. You can't label one being right or one being wrong. Teams that fish all four Pro Am's every year will be your more structured teams, while the teams that fish their home port event only, are more likely to be the type of team Gambler is referring to. Some teams are centered around one person, and have a revolving door of teammates. Some have a steady crew that fish every event together. Some teams fish for the sole purpose of winning, while some teams put more emphasis on having fun and enjoying the festivities. The impotant part isn't what other teams are doing, but rather that you're on the type of team that suits your personallity, and where you all share a common goal.

I think our team falls in the middle. We fish all four Pro Ams, and we are in our third full year of fishing them. I'm lucky enuff to have two of the best teammates I could ask for, and they have a lot of say as to what happens on our boat. If you want to keep a team together, everybody on that team needs to feel like they have a voice. Nobody wants to be a donkey. That's fine for a tourney or two, but it gets old fast!! It's a tough balance though, because too many opinions on a boat are a major negative and a distraction, which causes you to loose focus.

This season, I'm trying to tighten things up a little and take charge on the water more than I have in the past. At the same time, I fish with two excellent and very dedicated fishermen and I value their input. We succeed as a team, and we fail as a team. They are like the brothers I never had, and like brothers we sometimes butt heads. More than not though, we have a great time and that's what keeps our team united. We have fun during pre fish, and get very serious during the main event. In the end though, somebody on the boat has to take charge and have the final say. If you have tender feelings, you're probably not a long term tournament fishermen

[TOP SECRET]

The one problem I have with some of the posts here is you guys keep saying it's "their job". When using words like that, it turns your tournament into WORK as opposed to FUN. Some teams make the tournament a weekend job, but I'll be damned if I'm going to drive the 7hrs to the lake to "work".

Our team consists of myself, a fellow fisherman, and my wife. We alternate drivers based on catch... if I'm driving and not catching my wife takes over, if she drives and no catches our friend takes over... just to switch it up a bit. Everyone likes to run their own things, so I setup the left side, our friend sets up the right side. If something works, we switch to that presentation. First person to a rod fights the fish (my wife can't get wire rods out of the holders though). However, safety decisions are made by me, myself, and I and in that order. I cost our team a top 10 finish last year in Sodus because I thought we were having engine issues... turns out we weren't, but I'd do the same thing over again to make sure my crew was safe.

Another thing people tend to forget is their observer. Maybe they're getting paid, maybe they're there just to learn or were swindled into it by a friend/significant other... but I always feel it's important that they have a good time as well. We include them in conversations and even lure choices (pick one type of thing).

I for one try to have fun during the tournament. It's a passion, not my profession.

Nick

[traveling man]

Glen- that was funny, I needed a good laugh. I'll fish with you anytime.

[spoonfed-1]

Case in Point and I hope I dont give to much away Glen! LOL! Last year in Sodus when Glen wasnt sinking

You guys are brutal. LOL One little sinking and I'll just never live it down. LOL

Also I've picked up from a couple of posts that rod men aren't thought of as that important and they just sit there and don't contibute.

On the contrary.

A good rod man is worth his weight in GOLD in a tournament

Far as I'm concerned the guy that can boat 8 or 9 of ten instead of 6 or 7 of ten is contributing a whole lot to the team. As is the guy that gets 10 out of 10 fish in the net without missing and gets the one that just crossed a rigger cable. Those guys on the team are contibuting just as much as the guy dictating what and where to run and to think they aren't is just plain wrong.

My regular Team as well as a few replacements that have fished with me are very important members and the replacements I've had this year out west have done an especially great job as they were not familiar with the equipment and not all that much Big Lake fishing experience and still managed to boat the fish when the opportunity presented itself. Thats a VALUABLE team member.

Give me two rod men that can play and box fish that aren't solidly hooked and I'll show you a team that consitantly cashes checks.

Good rod men are an integral part of the Team and on the same hand rod men that are trying to Captain the boat are detremental to a successful outcome.

Glen