best chance too

[Dex]

Ditto to what Andy said.....

Dex

Team Thrillseeker

[Shade]

I guess the no-com rule has a chance to be implimented.

Shade

[A-TOM-MIK]

2010 Tightlines Shootout took place yesterday

This was a Closed Communication event, with the highest amount of interest over any event on the lake, 60 team limit, one class of anglers, mandatory observer (who also can not communicate) and a 6 rod rule, salmon only, 6 fish limit and cull allowed

To any individual or entity who believes in the "Can no be enforced EXCUSE" please add your team to the waiting list and experience this event first hand

You may not get called the first year to fish the event but sooner or later you will get invited as it is invite only.

During the captains meeting the rules are gone over, everyone abides as simple as that

BEST EVENT ON THE LAKE, in a high entry dollar event.

$800/entry for 2011 with teams waiting in line, hmmm...... wonder why that is ?????????????

BTW

Congrats to "Lord of The Kings" Vito Dittomo for the win yesterday in the roughest of bites I have witnessed in a long time

I took the Screamer and Big Fin boys over to the event yesterday after a 2 year wait to get in, we finished 7th, we only had 3 king bites all day

Dave said, "Tom, wow, that was the best event I ever fished"

I think sooner or later you could possibly see an event like this in our South Shore, watch and see HINT HINT

(:

Tom

[Capt Vince Pierleoni]

Please, Please, Tom, LOTS of advance notice! LOL! Some comments and observations on the above posts: Tightliner shootout is a great event, and is willing to listen to get better. Johnny asked me yesterday morning in the chaos of the observer exchange, "how do I fix this?" This is one place the Pro-Ams have it down. Should have been exchanged the night before-period. If they don't show by the time stated-BOOM, one of your teammates must go. Too big of money on the line there to be lax. Our observer was prompt, but we had to wait for our assigned obsever until boats were already leaving the harbor for ours to show. Growing pains for sure. If they can fit it, you will see 100 boats in this event. I'd like to see it 2 days, otherwise, a great event! We found a fair concentration, put a program together, just could not execute the landing part. I knew there would not be excess opportunities. We had to make them count, and we did not. God, I love Salmon tournaments!!!

Paulie, you are such a gamer and I respect you. Are you serious? We were fortunate to win the main Niagara event last year, talked to no one. We then gladly agreed to the no comm "gentlemens agreement", went out and placed 2nd in the "Big Boys" on Monday, talking to no one. If I remember right, Maverick lost his water, came screaming west next to us and out scored us with weight to notch the win. I don't believe he communicated either. In fact, even though he "mugged" our spot, it was very respectable. Never once did we have to alter a troll, and this is well within the rules. Ethically, it is horrible when someone crowds a boat on the second day, because they saw what they brought in day 1. Making the boat who established the program alter their plan when they had no such traffic the day before is wrong. They fished higher than we did, stayed a long way away, and we shook their hands on the win. This year, Gehrig and I were the last 2 standing, as one by one everyone bailed out. The concept has great potential, but not as an afterthought. This Lake has the players and gamers to support a true "Big Boy" event. It needs to stand alone, not be attached.

I had alot of time to think and reflect this weekend in Canada,as we did alot of running. The events will shake out, and the survivors will be bigger and better. As I have said before, I am for whatever elevates this incredible pursuit. As tournament fishing goes, Salmon stand alone

I have discussed it with my main team members. We will continue to conduct our own closed comm policy, even in the open comm events. We must get back to the "spirit of the rule" that we all try to live by. We hold no hard feelings towards teams that have used open comm to their benefit. Many of these guys are our friends--and we want to keep it that way. Its like meeting for a pick up football game, and running over to the other teams huddle and telling them, "we are going to blitz this play, OK?" No, you bring your best, they bring their best, and you shake hands when its over and go have a coldie.

Paul, I will sign the first line on the "gentlemens no comm agreement", and I hope you will be second. Who else is in?

[Shade]

Vince,

On the AM's side my team is in on NO - COM and I hope Wizard. Lucky Enough and Fishnutz follow.

Shade

[RUNNIN REBEL]

O.K

First BIG NAME/BEST charter boats from Lake Michigan - teams have fished Lake Ontario Niagara Pro-Ams when they started 20+ years ago. They did NOT LAST LONGER than a couple years. Why ????? Lets just say they showed the rest of the field how to turn "skippers" into points fish and transform bonus "slot" lake trout into over slot keepers. I still scratch my head today on how a 20 fish box limit (40 fish in 2 days) was scored and our skippers & slots were tossed. Michigan is ahead of us by 10 years on every aspect of the tourny game, No surprise!

Second..Open communication is a tool to your PERSONAL game plan. Just like a larger boat is a tool for ruff water advantage & A faster boat is a tool also for running 3 counties away. MUGGING waypoints is a strategy just as "unbelievable" as open comm. Mugging a waypoint IS OPEN COMM> without the phone call !!!!!!!!!...... LMAO................

LAST...Open communication is enforceable. YES OPEN COMMUNICATION ENFORCED. Ready.....Communicate all you want BUT @ 9:00 AM TILL 1 PM on tourny days NO BOAT FLYING A TOURNAMENT FLAG MAY RUN ANY WERE. THERE ARE ENOUGH BOATS (PRO & AMS) OUT THERE TO SEE ANY BOAT UP AND RUNNING. If you see any tourny boat rods up & running after 9 AM you call tourn. official with time/location. Have fun talking to your buddy 5 miles east killing browns because you cannot run there. This forces all teams to implement plan B before 9 AM & it eliminates 10 +++ mile runs, keeping the entire field of contestants battling out in "similar" water & conditions. A Niagara Pro- Am should be won in Niagara County & Orleans won in Orleans the next week.

Just a thought of working WITH THE RULES & COMMITIES instead against them. Best case is Open comm. advocates are happy its still open & closed comm. guys are happy because of LIMITED effect of that rule.

JERRY

RUNNIN REBEL

[Gill-T]

Why don't we just have the observers carry a greater role? In the end it is up to the observers to blow the whistle on rules violations. The observer could be charged with making sure the boat is back between the piersheads at the correct time, no funny business was conducted with fish ie. stretching to make longer lol, no "best chancing" the fish with the net, and that the captain does not communicate with anyone else. This is not rocket science.

[A-TOM-MIK]

You guys are making me sick

Make it a rule !!!!

Closed Communication PERIOD !!!!

Maybe many of you never fished the Oswego Pro/Am for the 10 years while it was Closed Communication and worked just fine

Maybe most of you stay away from the Canadian Tightlines because it is Closed Communication and you know it works flawlessly

Give me a break

If its a rule you follow it, if its want a majority wants you endorse it !!!

If not: Watch our once-loved Pro/Am's go down the tubes all in time !!!!!!!!

Hmmm? Oswego Pro/Am increased in size for 10 str8 years to 78 teams under Closed Communication, ever since for the last 5 years we are losing a few teams each year, every year, EVERY YEAR !!!! There's your rocket science !!!

Ha

Tom

[Fishtails]

This has turned into a great read with some terrific insight Just when I thought I was getting burned out on tournament fishing, Vince has all pumped up and ready to go at it again.

I think sooner or later you could possibly see an event like this in our South Shore, watch and see HINT HINT

(:

I like the way you're thinking Tom

On the AM's side my team is in on NO - COM and I hope Wizard. Lucky Enough and Fishnutz follow.

Shade

Hey Howie,

Actually, We only spoke openly with two teams this year, and it was more of a "so how ya doing" type conversation with people we consider friends. We have never ran to new fishing grounds in a Pro Am based on any information we received while out on the water. We definitly don't depend, or even take advantage of the open communication rule. It actually hurts our team, as we are still new to many of these ports and lack the local knowledge. This season, we continuously seemed to find fish on Friday, only to loose them with a blow on Saturday. I suppose a vast network of friends on the water would have helped us locate our lost fish, but we feel nothing is learned through that method and we try to find them on our own. It hurt us at times this year, but we'll be better and wiser for it in the long run.

I'd be thrilled to see closed communication!

[Shade]

NO NO Rod,

I did not point you or fishnutz or Wizard as comm type guys. I asked you guys because of your knowledge and leadership in the AM division.

Howie

[synergyboy10]

It appears toe that almost everybody does NOT want open comm! My question is why was the rule implemented?

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[A-TOM-MIK]

Paul ????

As a spokes personnel to coordination please answer the following question

Tom

[TOP SECRET]

You guys are a small amount of the teams involved... maybe those teams that want open comm (like myself) just aren't represented on this board?

PS... Rod if there was closed comms I wouldn't have been able to call you Sunday and tell you to stay the hell out of 200+fow and 10'+ rollers

Nick

[Fishtails]

Yeah...you warned me Nick, but I went out anyway. Why didn't I listen and just stay put BT fishing? It wasn't like you were banging any fish out there. See, open communication does me no good....I don't listen anyway

[A-TOM-MIK]

Nick, I have often said if there were more teams that actually spoke out and said "Hey, I happen to like Open Communication" then I would have never dragged my own name through the mud trying to satisfy the majority

Your vote certainly does count if you are a team that plays its part and gets involved in these events

I have taken several votes and polls through the years and the percentage has always been well over 90% in favor of Closed Communication, this was for all teams in all events.

Concerning Oswego I even went as far as only allowing a single vote per a single team and also you could not vote unless you participated in a past Oswego Pro/Am and I had over 30 votes "for" and just 1 against (as always well over 90% talking percentages)

However you are correct in your statement concerning this particular thread, for the most part the overwhelming majority is burned out from refusal and sick of stating their cases as they know it falls upon deaf ears

I even went as far as leaving the one single vote that wanted "open" as to not center them out. I was always trying to prove the case for the majority as coordination has always shaded the truth

Nick, I commend you for voting your choice, it is to be respected !! It just does not favor anything close to a majority vote. The poll taken on United .com was staggering as well a few years back. Half way through my personal poll earlier this year I backed off as I was shut down without even a glance of option from coordination

One vote taken earlier this year

Pro Side

Thrillseeker

Shirley B

Bandito 3 Team Buffa

Vision Quest

Team Tall Tails

Team Sea Devil

Team Hideout

East Coast Boys

Team TK

Salmon Bound

Lucky Dutchman

High Voltage

Team Cannonball Runner

The Bad Guys

The Eye Guy/Mau Jim

Landing Zone

Kingfisher

Team Proteus

Team Lightning

Maverick

Dixie Dandy

Cold Steel

Billy V Sportfishing

Team Primetime (PLahosky)

Top Gun

Am Side

Liquid Plumber

Team Lucky Enuff

Fishfull Thinking

Hook N Up

Still No Sponsor

Oh Baby

Team Sparks

L.O.U.S.E.R.S.

Dodger

Spoonfed

Trouble Shooter

[RUNNIN REBEL]

Hey Tom just curious how many teams on that list you think stuck to the NO COMM. stand and did not comm. in any Pro-Ams this year? take an educated guess based on the teams you may have heard were communicating.

JERRY

[A-TOM-MIK]

Jerry

I would guess close to none stuck to it to be honest, I really do not know, Vince obviously comes to mind

This particular poll was Oswego based as that was my targeted area of reason at that time, concerning only teams that have fished or still fish Oswego.

Then again were back to the, "we will communicate if we can" train of thought

I have never shaded the weight of those who would love a Closed Communication event, especially in Oswego. But also these same teams in great numbers still say, "Its what I want but I will fish them anyway" While I took this particular poll I feel a few teams felt threatened as most do not like to openly speak out, so as they gave me their vote it was often followed by, "But hey, were fishing anyway"

Tom

[TOP SECRET]

Tom, I can't speak for the pro side, but the AM side you only have 8 teams out of the usual 30 or so. Also, why not include people that didn't fish last year?

My thought would be to include a "vote box" on the registration form. Then when a teams registers they can check, open or closed. That way the voting is anonymous and people aren't pressured from the LOU board bullies.

Then the following year any rule changes could be implemented (in case someone like me decided not to fish the pro-am due to the rule change).

Nick

[A-TOM-MIK]

Nick, A vote box would be great, it has been mentioned and requested in the past

Could work as simple as this:

What would your team prefer?

-Open Communication

-Closed Communication

-Does not matter

Then if there was any doubt that Closed Communication was not wanted it would certainly shut a guy like me up !!!

I would have to personally see the results however to believe them, as I find it hard to believe the past polls and votes to be polluted as claimed by coordination

I honestly doubt the deserving participants will ever see a vote box though !!!!

Tom

[TOP SECRET]

Yea I'd like to see it too. That being said, I'm not sure a simple majority should be enough to overturn a rule. If it were my tournament... any rule would require a 2/3rd vote... simply because ANY change comes with risk. So even if they did put a vote out, it may require something greater than a majority... not sure.

While we're on the subject... I'd also like to see a vote to go back to 6 fish instead of 9

Nick

[Shade]

Nick,

I like your idea on voting and along with that I would like to see the results posted along side each teams name just to keep the count mistake free.

Saying that,until the committee lets our voices be heard all this discussion is for not. This comm topic has been going on for months now and, with the exception of Paul C., no one from the committee has come forward. I do not know when this rule was changed from no comm to open comm but the participants are looking for a possible change.

I just want to know from some of you pro/am participants from the beginning:

1) How was the Pro/Am started?

2) Who or whom are the owners of these events?

3) How or who decided who took charge?

Howie

[A-TOM-MIK]

Agree Agree Agree Nick, a simple majority vote is certainly not enough, 66% plus or even 75% should suffice !!!!!! (We'll never see it but at least we can agree)

As far as all other rules I have zero opinion, other than that of a questionnaire of sort to decide, that if there are enough interested current players worthy of a vote.

This would sort out a lot of heated battles and future wasted turmoil, instead of the current "It's my way or the highway" approach !!!

At times I honestly feel the commitment to these events from the players is taken so advantage of, that the loss of gratitude for "playing" is all that is left.

Tom

[TOP SECRET]

Shade,

I have to disagree with you on showing people's votes next to their name. I believe it should be anonymous so as not to sway people's votes.

Tom,

As I'm sure you understand as a business owner.... at the end of the day this is "their" tournament to see run as they see fit. I don't believe they're taking advantage of their participants, but doing what they truly believe is best. It just doesn't always mean what they think is best is what everyone else thinks best. It would be kinda like the majority of the LOU board taking a vote for you to support the Pro-AM again Even if 100% of us said you should, you may not think that is what's best for you and your company.

PS... if a vote would sway you... I'll start the poll right now

Nick

[A-TOM-MIK]

Nick

You got me !! Good one, I don't feel I get cornered too often, but your right it is their tournament, and the bad taste I currently hold often seeps through as it did with my comment

I've never been one afraid of admitting when I was wrong, but you could be right I guess

God I hate that term "At the end of the day" hmm wonder why..........

Tom

[Fishtails]

While we're on the subject... I'd also like to see a vote to go back to 6 fish instead of 9

Hey Nick....you sure about that bud? Remember all those skippies you've been catching this year? Guess what, they're gonna be legal fish next year and if this year's numbers are any indication of what we should expect next year, we may be real happy with that 9 fish limit! Matures are gonna be really scarce next year, and that's gonna make for some very interesting, very close tournaments in 2011. We are always going to expierence peaks and valleys. For example, our team caught well over our 9 fish limit every pro am day this season except for the first day in Niagara. I'm guessing most teams did the same...problem for our team was we were catching short fish. Some teams like Spoonfed, Five More Minutes, Fishnutz (just to name a few) consistently did a better job finding legal size fish. Maybe the "open communication" rule plays into that? I'm sure at times it does, but those teams earned their wins this season.

In Orleans our team caught 15-18 fish on 25+ bites, but only boxed 6. In Sodus on Saturday, we boxed 7 by 6:45 before pulling lines cause I wanted to fish beyond 7am. In Oswego, our team didn't fair as well as the other events, but not cause we didn't catch fish. We could have had a limit and a half each day....they were mostly short though. The 9 fish limit allows the better team on that given weekend to win.

My point is that next year will be very different than this year, just as this year was very different than last. I think you will see many 9 fish limits next year in the Am division....many! I personally don't travel 275-375 miles to catch 6 fish in an hour and have to stop fishing by 7 or 8 am cause we are boxed out. If you fished multiple Pro Ams, as opposed to only fishing your home port event, I'm pretty sure you would view things differently.

I for one, applaud the committee for going back to 9 fish in the Am division. If they would ever switch back to a 6 fish limit, I won't think twice about switching over to the pro division.