Info on running dip-diver

[knothappy]

I've never run dip-divers befor,i have 2 down riggers one on each side, if I use them can i run the divers off the back, how should i use the dip-diver, and any info on how to rig up a diver rod and reel, do i use Mono or wire. thanks for any help

[ray koziatek]

black dypsys,wire,2.5 setting,,,approx 3to1 ratio ex:240 ft out =80 down at 2.5 mph, slower speed a tad deeper ...run 40 lb mono between dypsy and flasher approx 8ft long...pull check all knots(wet when tieing) .........the white spin dctr with green dots and no see-um fly or little boy blue.....let out slow enuf as to keep tension on line,,,make shure dyspys are on correct side (weight towards boat)...slow turns are a must (long turns) ,,,opps fly about 22in back from spinny,,,and for starters run the spinnys as setup out of package(swivel connections),,,,keep dypsys out to side of boat and close to water if possable (DO NOT USE CHEEP PLASTIC HOLDERS PUT IN RIGGER HOLDERS IF YOU DONT HAVE GOOD ROD HOLDERS),,,,KEEP DRAG LOOSE to the point of almost slipping after dyspy is out ,,,,,,,OH THE RELEASE ON THE FRONT OF THE DYSPY MUST BE LOOSE TO THE POINT OF ALMOST TRIPPING ON ITS OWN (this will take some trial and error to perfect as to retrieve dyspy, a slight to moderate tug on the rod should release the dypsy for retreavil or fish strike ,,,,,,make shure your straight (boat) when setting riggers and dont run too long of leader from ball or you might hook wire on the way down ,another methoud you will perfect with a few tangles...then sit down and get ready for the fun part ......DONT TRY TO LEARN THE DYSPSY IN REAL WINDY WEATHER UNLESS YOUR GOING DOWNWIND,,,SOMETIMES IT COULD BE MUCH FASTER AND SAFER(tangles and motor wraps) TO PULL DYSPYS IN BUMPY WATER BEFORE TURNING INTO THE WIND,,again a learning curve as to what your boat and driver can do....long slow turns is a must so dont try the rigger only turn and PLAN AHEAD WITH OTHER BOATS IN THE AREA ...if you do get a good fish on the riggers be prepared and most time you should relea se dyspys and retreave quickly to keep the rigger mono outa the wire the wire will win 99% of the time and cut off the fish .................................other than that ITS EASY!!!

[knothappy]

Thanks this will take some getting use to.

[jekyll]

Ray gave a VERY detailed description; he had more info about using Lure Jensen dipsy than can be found on the Lure Jensen web site. Some more/differing thoughts:

You might consider 30 lb Power Pro or other super braid to start with as you learn. Stainless steel wire (30 lb) is very unforgiving of abuse or careless handling. Power Pro is nearly idiot proof however; it can be hard to untangle messes and it gathers fleas easier. Luckily, the fleas are on their last legs for the year.

The leader lenght between the dipsy and the paddle (or spoon) takes some experimenting. 8-foot is on the long side of the norm. If you have a short boat, short rod, short net handle, and/or short arms, you might want to try 6 feet. Many guys use the lenght of their rod from tip to reel as a guage.

Don't be afraid of turns. If you are running salmon depths on lake O, you won't tangle your rigs unless you turn the steering to the stop and hold it there. You should be able to turn within a 100 yard radius. Just ensure your rigger set backs are not too long - less than 30 feet. Dipsies are a less tollerant of tight turns than riggers with short set backs. Just understand that the dispy on the outside of your turn will pull much harder during a turn while the dipsy on the inside will pull much lighter and can -almost go slack in a really tight turn.

Dipsy rods work best off the side, in front of the riggers. Don't be afraid to lay them right out parralell to the water, they can't fall out of the rod holder. And yes, rod holders are important.Best to install something metal and adjustable. If you use rigger rod holders, make sure they are nice and 'toight' so they they can't spin under the strain. There will be a lot of pull on the rods.

Few things are as exciting as a dipsy hit when a large king slams the rod. That sucker will scream as the fish takes 100 yards off the reel. Power Pro or wire is essential for Lake O kings and dipsies. A 47 size Daiwa can't hold enough mono for a king dipsy but,they comfortably hold 1000 feet of 30 lb SS wire or Power Pro. You will start with up to 250-350 feet of line out and then a nice king can easily strip another 300-400 feet of line on the first run. You would need a really LARGE salt water reel to hold sufficient mono. Also, with 300 feet of line out, you can't trip the dipsy using mono because of line stretch. You will really hate retrieving a set dipsy when you can't trip the release. Mono divers are normally reserved for high dipsies where you don't deploy long set backs.

Ray's advice to experiment is good. On your first trip out, experiment with the release setting. It needs to be tight enough to hold through turns and waves. It will be set right when it occassionally releases due to waves when trolling with 3-4 footers. Wave surge on a captain's troll can push the release to its tripping point. Let the rig run back with the reel locked and the drag loosened. This will keep it pulling to the side to clear your rigger lines. There are a few advanced tricks to deploying dipsies that keep them out of your other junk but the best method if running just 2 riggers and 2 dipsies is to "cheat" a bit to the side you are setting. This means that you enter a slight turn to the port when setting the port dipsy or starboard for the starboard dipsy. You only need to cheat the turn until your dipsy is back behind the rigger lines and you can then straighten out.

Consider setting all your lines while trolling with the waves and wind (captain's troll) as this is much easier.

Have fun and, screaming drags to ya.

Semper Fi

[jekyll]

Ray and I both forgot to remind you not to set the hook on dipsy hits. They will bury the hooks themselves and with wire or super braid, there is NO line stretch. It is easy to break the line if you set the hooks - bye bye to $30 to $40 of tackle. Lack of line stretch is what makes fighting fish with them so much fun.

Consider using a snubber on the back end of the dipsy. This acts as a shock absorber to temper hard hits. Snubbers are a choice, not mandatory. Many people use snubbers and many don't, opting instead to use the stretch of the mono mid leader as the absorber. Use a good 30lb mono for the mid leader (dispy to flasher or spoon). The solid heavy plastic snubbers seem to be the best. They come in single and double strand varieties. I like the clear single strand, 12-inch versions when I can find them.

Daiwa Sealine 47LC reels are good and the Okuma Convector reels may be better. The Daiwas are nice and smooth with really nice drags but the Okumas have a better handle and seem stronger. Their drags leave some room for improvement though.

[jekyll]

Sorry. I didn't notice you asked about running these on the Finger Lakes until after I submitted my replies. You probably don't need snubbers there.

[chowder]

If you are going to run super braid instead of wire, I'd go with the 65lb power pro b/c it will help w/ reducing flea buildup (the fleas are subsiding now but they will be back next year). I think I would use a snubber on the Fingers as well as Ontario.

Ditto what Ray & Tim said about 'not setting the hook' and just as important; when you want to trip the diver intentionally in order to change flashers or quit for the day it is very important to NOT give the rod a hook setting or snappy jerk! (ask Ray about this )

To trip the diver use a firm upwards sweeping motion w/ thumb on the spool - you will 'feel' the diver release, let the diver & flasher float up towards the surface for a little bit and then point the rod right at the back of the boat and reel it straight in.

[rshubuck]

Daiwa Sealine 47LC reels are good and the Okuma Convector reels may be better. The Daiwas are nice and smooth with really nice drags but the Okumas have a better handle and seem stronger. Their drags leave some room for improvement though.

I been wanting to set ups some dipsys too. which size convector reels. Any rod suggestions. I primarly fish the fingerlakes but want to make the ocasional trips to the big o for kings. Thanks

[lil' troller]

keep your eyes out on ebay. the wire is about the same as 30lb in diameter, so the line capacity of the reel should give you an idea. We have 600ft of wire on our rods plus backer. I got a good deal on the older okuma magda 30's which are kinda cheap built and the drags don't work well on a light setting but for the fingerlakes they work just fine. we took a trip out of oswego a few weeks back and a king that weighed only 16lbs stripped out 150ft of line on top of the 330 we had out. I would say bare minimum 600ft, but on these reels i hear you can spool 1000ft which would be better for lake ontario. Diawa heartland rods are popular, and i run the okuma classic pro. you want a good number of eyes down the rod to distribute the weight and you will have to put a twillie tip in the end.

[billandpete]

did our first run on Canandaigua yesterday, had mega problems with dipsy's kept getting all twisted up, horribly so, and we followed every direction as stated above, I removed snubber which alleviated some problems but the twisting kept occurring, seems to me too many swivels between dipsy, snubbers, flahers etc........ any suggestions?

oh by the way marked fish only at 50' over 200 no hits no fish, until we finally headed in and said let's jig for bass and got some HUGE perch only, at least we can say we caught something..one other note, the fisherman out were courteous and considerable boaters but the recreational boaters, well...........if I had .50cal mount on boat it would have been well used yesterday!

[quality time]

What were you running behind diver, Speed? line type and pound test? We started running divers last year and had flea flicker line on with the same results. We switched to Trilene 30# test and do not have that problem any more. Don't give up! Since We started using divers we are catching more and bigger fish. With that said, you must understand that you can and will lose some tackle and lil troller and I always joke about pleasing the tournament gods with a donation of tackle to the bottom. You also need quality swivels and I think that the fleas can foul a swivel sometimes.

[jekyll]

I try to only use swivels named Sampo or Spro. Quality swivels are a must. I use snap swivels at each end of the leader between the dipsy and flasher but, that's my choice. Use a good stiff mono for that leader. A stiff, larger leader combined with quality swivels should stop the twisting. Don't use Power Pro for this connection - it will twist.

Not all swivels are created the same. Opti-Tackle has good swivels as well as good snubbers: http://www.optitackle.com/terminaltackle.shtml

[stoutner]

I get twists every now and again and here are the reasons why I think they happen.

Most important: Letting diver out too fast. let it out by loosening the drag and turning on the clicker. Do not let it completely loose...give it some drag.

Next: I find more twisting on #3 setting. Set diver at #2 or 1.5 setting.

Next: Sharp turns cause twisting. No sharp turns

Next: Bottoming out the diver. When it hits bottom it twists sometimes.

Last but not least. I have had big fish HAMMER the bait and twist the diver. Unavoidable but it happens in my opinion. I think they sometimes actually hit the diver. I know they hit flashers sometimes.

[quattro]

If you want to reduce line twist, and you have a spinning reel, open the bail and hold the spool with your hand. Simply reducing the drag and letting the line out creates a ton of twist....especially with the flea flicker line. So open the bail if you have a spinning reel. That's why level winds have such an advantage.

[ifishy]

when getting swivels two words ball bearings they are worth every penny

[knothappy]

Sorry about not getting back to everybody for helping me with my questions, but they stuck me in the hospital heart problems It's good to retire if you can make it, no more fast foods if i want to injoy my fishing, got to loose some tonage the brite side is my boat will go faster thats something. thanks again for your help. hopefully I'll be here for a while.

[Big Water]

I think they sometimes actually hit the diver. I know they hit flashers sometimes.

Two weeks ago, I had one hit the diver at Ontario and cut the line to the spoon about 1" behind the knot. Didn't trip the dipsey and the line was 20# mono with a clean cut. I think I'll put some hooks on my dipseys from now on!!

[stoutner]

I think they sometimes actually hit the diver. I know they hit flashers sometimes.

Two weeks ago, I had one hit the diver at Ontario and cut the line to the spoon about 1" behind the knot. Didn't trip the dipsey and the line was 20# mono with a clean cut. I think I'll put some hooks on my dipseys from now on!!

I've had teeth marks on my flashers too but I was pretty sure they would take a swipe at a diver as well.