Dipsy Problems

[idn713]

So here is the deal. I went out trolling with my dipsy rigs the last two days out of sandy. I worked from 75 thru 150 fow on every direction troll you can work and I covered the depths from 90 all the way up to 45 with my mag and #1 dipsys. I always have three dipsys in the water and I have a different spoon color on each dipsy. I worked the Gator, Glo Frog, Nk 28 black-green, Glo Green, and various shades of purple and yellow. After all of this I all had to show for it was two stinking hits with no fish to show for it. What the heck am I doing wrong? I have been hearing that the inside bite has been pretty good and I have been out trolling with guys who know what they are doing so I am not totally clueless. I just seems that to have three poles in the water on two consecutive days and no fish to show for it is pretty absurd. Any insight or advice for my situation would be helpful. Also I do NOT have a down speed and temp. So I am pretty much going on marking my fish to find the depth and going on rod action for the speed. I usually keep my rpms just a touch below 10 and that has hooked some dink salmon before, so I really dont know where I went wrong. HELP!!

[Time Out]

Sometimes the dipseys just won't work. We have gone two days in a row with very little dippy action. Try flasher/fly off them, or only run one per side. Try longer leaders out to 12' or so. How were your rigger bites?

[idn713]

Thats just the thing I dont have riggers. So dipsys are all I have

[goin deep]

What kind of line are you running? wire, braid, mono???

Brian

[spoonfed-1]

Not enough info to pinpoint anything specific but it sounds like a major case of learning curve.

Don't get discouraged and keep trying different speeds, depths, (amount of line out or in) and lures and it will come together for you.

Just remember if the rods aren't firing start make changes.

Hang in there.

Glen

[idn713]

alrighty to clarify I am running 20 pound mono on all the rods just to keep it simple. I am running the divers without the O ring so I can put them farther back according to my depth chart. So for instance on a 0 setting on a #1 diver I will let out around 115 ft of line to get her down around 45. So depending on my setting and my dipsy I will let the line back any where from 100 to 250 ft back. I know for a fact with my trolling speed at the rpms i mentioned earlier the dipsys get to where they are supposed to. For instance I set my dipsys to go to 85 ft down in 87 fow and they were touching bottom so I know I am right on with what the dipsy charts say.

[idn713]

The leader I am running from dipsy to spoon is about 5-6 ft

[ray koziatek]

well pretty light line ( mono ) so yer getting lots of streach,,with 30 lb wire set at 2.5 setting w/ring its 3 to 1 (close) at 2.2 to 2.5 mph with spinnies (.012 dia wire) little deeper with spoons..

yer dypsy releases need to be set very light (trip easy) ,but that dont explain no hits , make shureyour spoons run good at the surface tho down currents can make big diff ..let out 30 or 40 ft on line and notice how much bend youhave in the rod then drop out to desired depth and try to match the bend as down currents vary usually below 50 to 60 ft.....try to run spoons at slowest speed you can without loosing action ,then if you get somecurrents your stuff wont start spinning or getting goofy...

[idn713]

Yah absolutly I have been going on the surface action and all my rods are tracking well. I might be going a touch fast but honestly i have been going literally the slowest my outboard can do before it goes to an idle

[final flight]

first thing i would try/do is put wire on my rods, then set the outside dipsy's on a 2 1/2 or 3 setting and stretch them back to 240 - 280 your center rod would be changed over to a thumper rod so you could read the speed at or near your target depth. play with colors of dipsy. i normally run black in the morning and on dark days, chrome or shinny green on bright days. i really hope you start putting fish in the boat but remember to take notes on what is working and when it worked. things on the big pond change very quickly so don't stick with on set-up too long before you change it out. GOD bless and good luck rollie

[K Gonefishin]

I would ax the mono and get wire also run your divers with rings they will dive deeper with less line out and have better outward planing ability. Ray has good advice on the depths.

[idn713]

ah I guess my next question is why do I need the wire? I mean I can get down to the depths I want no problem so thats not really an issue. Really wire would just help me with the stealth side to things. But if stealth is really important than I am sorta out of luck if I want to fish up high with my dipsy's. Also I do use the rings and they get me down fast and quick. I did not realize that dipsy color selection was that important though. I have green and I also have clear sparkle dipsys. So maybe I ought to invest in some dark colors. I got into this thinking dipsys would work as a nice little rigger substitute, I may have thought wrong.

[ray koziatek]

good catch on the color after years of fishing i just "assumed" you were running black or purple ,not that other colors wont work guess im sorta stuck in a rut on the black ones..

I know your happy with the mono but trust me and others ,i dont care what some computer generated super wooper test shows you will loose strength with a knot,

steady pull on mono will streach a tad when its streatched rub a few small stix (floating crap) maybe a tad line guide wear, a little irragularty of line during mfg..and one good 15 to 35 lb salmon hit now ya got everything working at its max 20 lb capasity,and you will be reeling in a limp line less 20 to 30 $ worth of tackle,,

Its bad enuf for me to spend 100.00 rd trip on gas for th van to loose a little tackle hurts more to loose a fish of a lifetime or 20,000.00 loc fish for a 40 dollar roll of wire,,,could (will) come back to haunt you for years to come ,,,50 to 65 lb Power Pro is a friendly option also .......Please dont take my post as a bashing to your setup but more of friendly advise from someone who has a few hundred dollars laying on the bottom of lake ontario..

get some spray paint for the dyspys and do a good job painting and the money saved buying new dyspys invest in some power pro or wire..DONT SKIMP ON THE ONLY THING BETWEEN YOU AND A MONEY FISH OR FISH OF A LIFETIME.. or any fish as far as that goes..

Including all tackle,swivels,snaps,leaders...try this streach yer 20 lb line with 5 lb pull then touch a knife to if and see how long it takes to cut through...then try with 30 lb wire..

[Mick]

A can of black spray paint can fix the color problem for you. It was 70 degrees down 70 last night off Oak Orchard in 100 feet of water, and even though a lot of bait is there it seems you have to sort through a lot of skippy's to find a few better fish. It does sound like you are going a little fast though.

[Big Dave]

Also the wire or the braid dosen't streach , so everytime the boat rocks it jiggs the lure. I use a snubber to help with the fish thrashing at the back of the boat, and the hit. Its much easier to trip the dipsie to change lures and check for zebra mussels when you tick bottom. The fight on wire is alot differant too!!!

[idn713]

Ah ok now I am getting this whole wire thing, thanks alot for the info guys I really appreciate it! Keep it coming

[rustyrat]

your dipsy colors are fine. I run clear, green, and glow. sometimes black or purple.

The wire will really help, thats half your problem.

The thumper rod Rollie talks of will help you with getting your speed correct.

Good luck

RR

[Broadhorizons]

Last year, I didn't have a probe for my old fish hawk that came on the boat and wanted to just upgrade my system in the spring instead of buying a new probe first. So, I would also suggest running a thumper rod with a dodger/fly to give you some speed indication. You can also ask on the radio what guys are running for GPS speed AND direction to achieve a good downspeed. "2.4 GPS on a West troll for 2.2 down" or "1.8 GPS on an East troll for 2.4 down" You can also ask for information on how deep the temp is.

Fish Doctor charters has a video on "reading" a thumper on his Video Tips page. He also has the wire knot and rigging a thumper. http://www.fishdoctorcharters.com/template.tpl?selector=video

Sandy Creek or Sandy Pond?

Good luck,

[jekyll]

Sometimes the fish like a longer leader than can be easily run on a dipsy. You hear of days when the dipsies are quiet and all the hits come on riggers? This is likely because they want longer leads. You can accommodate this by adding a slide diver or 2 to your kit. You can stretch the leads as far as you want.

Also for speed, you can run a mag spoon off a #1 dipsy and see the spoon's action on the rod tip. This also acts like a minnie thumper.

[idn713]

Well guys I gotta say I am depressed. I went out of sandy again today. I went up to the nose and trolled back towards the creek, I started at 130 fow and immediately got a hit on my 70 foot dipsy running the frog and that was it. I went out to 200 and back in to 80 and got nothing. To be fair everyone had a bad day on sandy today but man this is getting fustrating. It's like even a blind mouse finds the cheese every once in a while but I am actually running these things by the book! My action was good and my depth was spot on ( I know this cause I experimented by touching bottom) I even trolled right with the big charter guys at their speed and nothing except one hit. Any of you guys got some manual riggers to want to donate to a poor responsible fishing obsessed college kid? But seriously maybe I should focus on the bass until some more fish move in.

[W.W.IV.]

Everything the others said is good advise but you still need some kind of speed control, RPMs won't do it for you. You should be able to find a good used GPS cheep. Maybe you could barrow a hand held from a friend and see how that works. If you do try not to drop it over board. .When you get your speed right you should do better catching. Good luck,hope this helps.

711skwertz had a pair of manual cannons and if he still has them you might be able to work something out. Send him a PM.

[Broadhorizons]

IDN, check your PM's.

[Self Censored]

YOU cant catch fish if they are not there. The fish have been 8-32 miles out the past 2-3 days. I bet your dipsy would work out there.

[idn713]

That is very true. The inside fishing at sandy has been very slow for everyone, or so I hear. Its just that the browns should be at least willing to bite

[Jolly II]

Idn,

Keep at it. My dipsies were completely silent last weekend, 8/7, out of sandy creek. Even took a good rip on the riggers and managed to lose my second Gator spoon of the year, would love a do over on that one. I've been doing this thing since I was 4 years old with my Dad and Uncle, and I'm still learning. Sometimes I've just completely stumped and frustrated, had one of those days on day 1 of the Wayne County ProAM.

I used the basic Garmin Etrex hand held for years as a GPS unit. I helped me to keep track or speed, position, and I could set way points to get me back on the fish. Also, it's a big lake, a GPS is pretty handy to get you back to port if weather or fog moves in, or to relay your position in an emergency.

Seems you've got the right spoon patterns for salmon, if you can afford a few flasher/fly combos to add to your arsenal do it. I tend to fish flasher/fly combos on my dipsies because that is what produces big kings for me. If you need ideas on what flasher/flies have been good, read the reports and take notes on colors. If you're fishing out over 100 FOW don't be afraid to run 300-350 feet of line out. Get your stuff deep.

As for the browns... I usually don't run dipsies when targeting browns, unless there are kings mix in with them. Most of my summer brown action comes on riggers.

Just stick with it, take notes, talk to everybody you can, keep asking questions, and read everything you can get your eyes on.

Chris