Moon Pattern/Rut

[Reel Doc]

Out scouting over the weekend and found some fresh rubs and a scrape. Seems early, but Alsheimer and LaRoche say this year is a once in a lifetime event based on the moon cycle.....they are thinking we could have 2 primary ruts, but with fewer does in per rut so the bucks may not be as quick to wander away from one hot girl. One in late October, the second around the start of gun season.

Anyone else seeing rub/scrape activity? I'm surprised to see 2 big boys photographed together if does are that close to cycle.

Greg

[T_barb]

saw similar things at my camp this past weekend.. Didn't spend a lot of time in the woods, but the sign was very obvious.. Not sure i ever saw that much sign so early in the year.. Hopefully it is a good sign (...no pun intended)...

[chowder]

Greg, scrape activity seems normal to me, typical pattern w/ separate dominant & young buck scrapes both interacting w/ the breeding group. Clue me in here on this 'dual rut ' concept though b/c I must be outa the loop on this! -Andy

[jaychunter]

i dont know how many of you read the ny sportsman paper , bur oak ducks is also sayin a early rut . i can go back in my huntin log and tell you i saw bucks bumpin does in the first week of bow last year to . so in a few days we will all find out , i also want to say that i feel it has to do on the area bein hunted also

[on the lam]

My buddie who is a moon phase guru said the same thing, early rut in late october, then the does will get hot again 28 days later which puts it right around NY gun opener.

[Legacy]

The rut moon this year falls on November 21 which is extremely late in the year. The belief is that when the rut occurs late in the season (like this year) that the rut is spread out over a longer period of time and a trickle rut happens.

[Reel Doc]

Anyone who enjoys hunting for more than just the "Brown its Down" approach would enjoy going to an Alsheimer seminar. I saw him a few years back; engaging guy who is passionate about whitetails to hunt and to learn about their behaviors. He has a fenced in area near Bath where he can monitor the behavior of some whitetails each year, and has been doing so for some time now. I think the moon phase connection to the rut is real, just as it can affect weather, it's Mother Natures way of telling does when to cycle and giving a hint of when the following Spring will be amenable to having those new fawns.

Alsheimer's theory is the peak rut occurs 1 week after the second full moon after the Fall Equinox. This year the Fall Equinox landed on a full moon, so it is a rare occurrence to try and predict. He admits he's not sure how it will work out in 2010. The thought is there will be a trickle rut, one happening late October and the second stating about the 21st of November.

Those of us who like to engage in animal biology, patterns, theories, quackery? can ad lib to this all we want. Raising seasonal breeding livestock, (sheep for me), you find groups of females will cycle in a tight window, not spread out a few at a time over a 3-4 week cycle. So, depending on where you live, you could get a stronger late October rut and lighter in November or flip it around. But if your does are quiet in late October, and 2-3 miles away a batch of does are hot, the bucks may be hard to find on your property. As always, it adds up to a good excuse to tell the family you need to spend more time in the woods this Fall. Good luck to all out there.

Greg

[chowder]

Although I've solved most of the issues of predicting when the optimal time to bow hunt is by just hunting every afternoon that I'm not fishing , here's some more food for thought; http://bowsite.com/BOWSITE/features/art ... oontheory/ -Andy

[Gator]

I agree with the comment on Charlie. The guy's a legend. I had the privilege of growing up as he was rising in popularity, right around the corner. In fact, both my Dad and a buddy of mine's Dad have posed for Charlie in some of his hunting photos. It's always interesting to see how highly folks regard him. To me he was always just "that deer guy", but you know what they say about familiarity...

I've come to the conclusion that the best time to hunt is when I'm not in the woods. Busted out all of my deer this morning from the back of a neighbor's lawn on the way in; not a single post-dawn sighting. Across the street, my buddy saw 34, but only one with bone.

At them again this pm.

[Gill-T]

We had rutting activity this weekend. Young bucks chasing and grunting despite warm temps. I have never seen chasing this early.

[Broadhorizons]

I haven't seen any scrape activity yet this year in the usual spots. A couple scrub bucks are still hanging around together and nobody is harassing does yet. Did see one nice one tonight that hasn't been seen yet this year with the other deer though. He wasn't interested in any of the other deer either, just feeding in the field. A few of the deer are still in summer coats. Hopefully it picks up in the next couple weeks.

[Gill-T]

Managed to snap off a few of the horny deer after he was responsible for running does under my stand, too fast to get off a shot. Afterward he stopped to rub a little and make some licking branches within 20 yards of stand Buck is a 1.5 yr old six-pointer. Will let him get bigger. This was in Wales\ Erie county. Now, my brother was down in Allegheny Co. hunting and he said he had bucks chasing and grunting after does as well. Maybe we will get three rut cycles this year? It certainly has been a wierd weather year. How many windy weekends are we going to have?

[Reel Doc]

Andy,

Interesting article to read...their conclusions match yours, ie spend more time afield....every year I ask my wife to fire me in mid-October...she won't do it, but barring any cow calls, she let's me run to the woods a bit during bow season so I'm not complaining.

Speaking of the woods, did get out yesterday afternoon for a bit and enjoyed two does hanging under my stand for 15-20 minutes. I could have pulled a Rambo on one and jumped on her back, but too much fun just watching. There will be more in the weeks ahead....

Greg

[tap001]

Hunted Saturday morning came upon a major scrape line that had been worked hard overnight, early morning. Saw a doe chased (never saw a buck) out of the corn field I was watching. Saw a 1.5 year old 6 pt working another scrape line. I would say the activity is picking up. This was NW Steuben county. Oh by the way good hunt to start the year - 30+ turkeys, a buck and a great day to be in the woods

[Reel Doc]

Sounds good tap. Not sure the layout of Steuben county, but some relatives of mine hunt in the Dansville/Springwater area. Are you out that way?

Greg

[Chautauqua Tony]

The rut moon this year falls on November 21 which is extremely late in the year. The belief is that when the rut occurs late in the season (like this year) that the rut is spread out over a longer period of time and a trickle rut happens.

This is the correct time period for the rut this year according to moon phase. Every year there are always some early scrapes. As far as rubs, they can be found in August, so it's hard to put stock into the start of the rut based on fresh tree rubs.

As far as the comment about the doe going into heat again 28 days later, that happens every year. The second estrous is a much harder rut to hunt. By that time the big boys are pretty much nocturnal.

[Fish Hunter]

Have monitored traditional/historical scrapes being freshened, and new occuring now.

This has increased over the past 2 weeks, in our area, by quite a bit.

Watched a nice 8, following, not bothering, but just folowing 5 doe, Wednesday(20th).

Betcha' a decoy could have some worth now.

Wish the temps would cool off some, and looks like this coming weekend may have that happen.

[flashpoint]

Hey guys. I am a relative newbee to the forum over the last year& half....but thought i would put my $.02 in! I am in central Indiana right now.......first night in the stand. We have found scrapes. & rubs every where....be interesting to see how much chasing we see going on. Locals out here seem to think the chasing will be spread out....time will tell!

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[ray koziatek]

flash stay off my land......will be in White cty for opening day of gun....

I ant no moon phaser stay home till it happens type hunter alli know in the corning area and odessa area 25 miles apart the early rut sign rotaters every other year in these two areas.. one year my buddy sees early sign and the next i see early signs,,or at least its been that way for the last 27 years sence ive started to hunt and stay informed by him with daily calls...also sence 92 when i started to get serious with a bow holloween weekend ..this is typically the start of the week of playing as most bucks start to get their feathers ruffeled,watch the trail cams and notice the viewing hours and start to look for broken tigns....yea the moon does have some predictions ,but its easier for me to remember THE GREAT PUMPKIN..

This is typically the week i see the big one shoot like a little girl and threaten to never bow hunt again..then the first buck that ant no wall hanger walks within 40 yds i drop it like i was a pro ....some day ill man up and gget the bbbbig one ..

[FX]

Well, I had high hopes last night with the weather change and as Ray said, a poular weekend for bucks to be horny. between 4 of us, we saw 33 deer with 9 bucks. All but one 2 1/2 yr old were skippers. One sighting had 3 bucks together, I saw 2 together and the rest were single sightings. None were even remotely interested in the many doe. Scrape activiity is not heavy yet. Hard to believe after watching 2 bucks chasing does, who wanted nothing to do with them, around opening weekend and more chasing last weekend. Wind is perfect this morn for the "secret blind". See ya......

Shawn

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[kman2112]

I agree that Alsheimer and LaRoche's theories are interesting, and it nice that a lot of the data for his study comes from right here in upstate NY at his farm in Bath, but I have to agree with John Ozoga (the grandfather of whitetail research) that the first few weeks of November are the best, regardless of what the moon is doing. That's been my experience, and his too.

He says it's all photoperiod that triggers the rut. That is, the first does will generally breed during the last week of October, or maybe not until the first few days of November. Thereafter, the frequency of breeding escalates rapidly, peaks during mid-month, but tails-off gradually, with some breeding occurring in December, and even January in areas where doe fawns breed.

On northern range, the chase phase occurs at about the same time, year after year — starting around the middle of October. Therefore, given the timing of this annual event, it is tempting to credit the first breedable doe as being the unique force causing bucks to suddenly go berserk. To the contrary, however, I suspect the chase phase is just that: much chasing and testing of does by energetic bucks, but little or no breeding.

I'll take a high pressure, clear cold early november day for mature bucks. Either way, you can't shoot em from your bed, so get out there boys and girls. Deer move less when it's warm and/or rainy, but some of the best buck encounters I've heard of are on days just like that.

Bottom line, if you have the time get out there! Even if you see no deer you get to relax in the great outdoors so either way you win.....

[Reel Doc]

I think you're right kman, as even Alsheimer admits photoperiod is probably 80% of the influence. So far in our woods everything is on course for a typical rut kicking in over the next 7-10 days. Have only seen does in groups, no solo hot mamas, plenty of rub activity, small scrapes by the young boys....I do not see sign of a big boy in residence on our land, so hoping he's over at the neighbors ready to come visit when the girls are acting sexy.

Alsheimer's first prediction of a late October mini-rut has not happened in our woods. Still, I just love the science of the whole rut process coupled with the "scratch your head" factor of the moon phase. I'll be curious to hear other reports in the coming 10 days.

Greg

[chowder]

Here at our high altitude location I saw a mature doe that was in heat being courted by a 2 1/2 yr old 8 or 9pt yesterday.

[Gator]

I saw a doe mount a small buck in a field on the way to drop my daughter off for school earlier this week. Most likely trying to get him interested? I'm assuming this means she was in heat, but don't know for sure. I'd say it looks to be normal or close to normal this year.

[ray koziatek]

daddy why is that deer doing that..........ASK YOUR MOTHER!!