Ethanol 15 approved

[shadster]

Talk about a kick in the teeth. This president will stop at nothing to destroy our very way of life.

http://sports.espn.go.com/outdoors/bassmaster/conservation/news/story?page=b_con_EthanolControversy_101014

edit: l&m

[Stinky Finger]

Great. I can't figure this guy out, unless I look at it from the perspective that he is doing everything he possibly can to foul everything up as much as possible, the he begins to make sense.

I am gearing up for a rebuild over this winter of an old outboard I bought some twenty years ago and put into storage. It's a 1954 Evinrude fleetwin aquasonic 7.5 hp that I plan to put on the Stinky Finger for the '11 season on Silver and Conesus. My research tells me in the rebuild I'll have to replace all the rubber fuel lines on it because the alcohol in today's modern fuel will eat it, the ethanol which is a fancy name for corn liquor, really that's all it is.

Back in '54 when this outboard was new it was not recommended to run automotive gasoline from the corner gas station, "leaded" gas in those days. Marinas sold a grade of fuel known as "marine white" which was simply unleaded gas, what we have today with the exception that in those days they kept the corn liquor in the bottom desk drawer where it belonged and there wasn't any in the gas.

Up until now apparently the regulations (in NY at least) was 10% maximum ethanol in gasoline but I have been warned that gas sold in NY can routinely test much higher (up to 18%) and it is easy to determine with a test kit sold at NAPA for about 5 bucks. Sorry I don't know the part number off the top of my head but if anyone wants it I can find out and post it on here. With all the thousands that folks have into their fuel burning machinery and toys it would be a shame to see ruination brought by this ethanol crappola.

Darn shame what these shameless politicians will do to turn a buck for their pals. It has been proven that ethanol production is a money pit, gives no useful advantage to fuel and serves only to drive up grain prices. Just another Washington sham to make our lives "better" and all that.

[Gator]

What I don't get is, if you add 10% ethanol but get 10% less mpg, how are you "saving" any gas? Driving from my house to Sandy would still take the same gallons of pure unleaded. Then factor in the return on corn alcohol, ie how much gas does it take to produce ethanol? Seems to me like a bunch of flash and mirrors. Anybody know differently?

[skipper19]

just go by the ethanol plant in Medina (near the oak) and see how much heat and energy is being spewed into the atmosphere burning natural gas to make the white lightning. ...Not to mention the stink from it when the wind blows towards your nose.

Mark

[lyteline]

The way I read the law is that new pumps will have to be installed for the E15 and that they be clearly marked.Also,I don't beleive that E15 is a mandate but rather a choice for the dealers to make if they want to sell it.Maybe LONG LINE can chime in.....Zeke & Cyn(Strike 3)

[Misty IV]

It's getting to the point we're going to have to put a fuel/water seperator inline for our kickers now, too. This is rediculous. Can anyone comment on how the E15 will work in a 2-stroke application? My kicker is a 1971 Johnson which runs like a dream right now, and I'm worried the newer fuels will end that. What effect will the alcohol have on the 2-stroke oil? Will it break it down any and we'll have to "double-oil" or should it be okay?

[rolmops]

The problem of ethanol in the fuel for a 2 stroke is really minuscule. You will find that your fuel consumption goes up a bit because ethanol in a regular engine has only about 66% of the energy that pure gasoline has. As long as all your fuel lines are alcohol resistant you will be fine.

Believe it or not, but the Obama administration would would like to get rid of ethanol,just like the Bush administration had a dislike for ethanol. But the most powerful lobby in Washington is the farmers lobby and they are very deeply entrenched in the department of agriculture. The farmers and their representation in Washington are the responsible party.

Farmers get subsidized for growing corn and for every gallon of Ethanol produced,the subsidy is fifty cents (our tax money). The amount of energy used to produce a gallon of ethanol is more than the amount of energy in a gallon of gasoline, so their is a negative energy balance.

You can go vote for or against democrats or republicans,but both will shove more ethanol into your fuel tank.

[shadster]

Ethanol in the fuel is a big problem and if not handled the right way can lead to major headaches.

http://www.lakeontariounited.com/fishing/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=19184

[Stinky Finger]

The alcohol test kit I mentioned in my post was not a NAPA thing, fuzzy memory.

It is a Briggs and Stratton product, part number 100023, $5.00 kit.

This will tell you how much ethanol (alcohol) is in your gasoline beyond any doubts, just because the sticker on the pump at the station says 10% etc, it doesn't mean it is not actually higher.

Apart from neoprene rubber fuel hoses on kicker motors (or anything else) there may be other parts to replace with ethanol compatible parts such as carburetor bowl O rings, needle tips, gaskets, anything the ethanol can come in contact with. The man I learned this from has a friend who lost a '59 Chevy to a neoprene fuel line which failed due to ethanol eating it, the resultant engine fire consumed the entire car, total loss.

Equally detrimental to older outboards are modern motor oils containing detergents. Not all that long ago these oils did not contain the additives they have today which can prove lethal to your old motor.

[LongLine]

E85 was approved by the EPA for road vehicles 2007 and newer. This means gas stations will have to maintain a separate tank and pump if they decide to sell gas to older cars. Testing on older vehicles has not been completed.

According to Bloomberg, the EPA has excluded "nonroad" engines which includes boats and snowmobiles.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-1 ... -cars.html

These area NYS stations are listed as selling E-85:

Newcomb’s –Pittsford

Pittsford-Victor Road Mobil –Pittsford

Mobil – 1000 Jefferson Rd - Roch

Fastrac Markets – Henrietta Rd – Roch

Tegg’s Mobil – Brooks Ave – Roch

12 Corners Mobil – Monroe Ave Roch

Don & Holly's Mobil - Spencerport

Fastrac Market - Fulton

DiPrima's Mobil -Fairport

http://www.afdc.energy.gov/afdc/progs/i ... php/NY/E85

Myself, I'm going to stay away from them. Gas may be cheaper but I can't afford the repairs.

As for using E15 in your boat - Be wary:

http://www.theoutboardwizard.com/boat_e ... ution.html

http://www.boattest.com/Resources/view_ ... ewsID=3345

Honda specifically says don’t use E85:

http://marine.honda.com/owners/fuelrecommendations

Evinrudes – 10% max

http://www.evinrude.com/en-US/Owners-Ce ... OilAndFuel

Mercury says use up to 10% & will void the warranty if you go over:

http://www.mercurymarine.com/service-an ... ry=ethanol

Check out Has Been's post in other section.

Tom B.

(LongLine)

Zeke & Cyn - I owe ya....

[shadster]

Boat Engines Excluded

The decision excludes non-road engines such as boats and snowmobiles. The National Marine Manufacturers Association, a Chicago-based trade group for the recreational boating industry, said it’s worried that consumers may become confused and put the wrong fuel in boats.

“We are astonished that EPA has decided to move forward with a fuel that will increase air pollution and damage hundreds of millions of existing products,†President Thom Dammrich said in a statement today. The U.S.’s 66 million boaters will be left “holding the bag for performance issues and expensive repairs,†he said.

Says pretty much right there.

[Misty IV]

Boat Engines Excluded

The decision excludes non-road engines such as boats and snowmobiles. The National Marine Manufacturers Association, a Chicago-based trade group for the recreational boating industry, said it’s worried that consumers may become confused and put the wrong fuel in boats.

“We are astonished that EPA has decided to move forward with a fuel that will increase air pollution and damage hundreds of millions of existing products,†President Thom Dammrich said in a statement today. The U.S.’s 66 million boaters will be left “holding the bag for performance issues and expensive repairs,†he said.

Says pretty much right there.

Time to vote these people out!!!