Downrigger trolling newbie.. any help?

[bulletbob]

Never liked it that much, prefer jigging/casting.. However, I also realize that trolling IS the best and most consistent method of catching large trout and salmon in the Fingers, no question.

Jigging lakers is fun, and there are times when I have outfished the guys trolling, but its not the norm, and browns, salmon and bows are hard to come by when jigging. They are relegated to a rare "bonus fish" when jigging.

Anyway, I just bought a 1985 Sylvan 18' with real nice condition 90 HP Evinrude.. Lots of nice gear came with the rig including a VHF radio, CD/stereo radio, new fish finder, real nice bow mount foot control trolling motor, and 2 manual downriggers.. The riggers don't look "top of the line", but are not those little $99 toys either..

btw, Any real advantages with electric riggers over manuals?

I see just the riggers themselves and the mounted bases.. Haven't checked, there may be balls and such, I don't know... If there is no more rigger "stuff" , what will I need to get started?..

I can get some rigger lures as I have none, but do have a lot of stickbaits and some spoons that can get me started.. I have no conception of all the fly/ dodger type things I have been reading about so I need simplicity at first.

Any thoughts as to how to get started?... I have never even used a downrigger.. Made up a meat rig rod once but it was a horrid unwieldy mess that I gave up on in short order.

I hate the fact that at 56 and a lifetime of fishing I am such a tenderfoot , knowing NOTHING and having to ask for help in rigger fishing... anyway, I know there are a lot of very good rigger fisherman here, and I couldn't have come to a better place for help... I hope some of you would be kind enough to share some of your knowledge... bob

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[rshubuck]

There is a real good post by ATomMik a few months ago that explains a lot about how he sets up. Search for it. It will help a lot. As far as equipment goes, I suggest getting a depth raider for your boat. They are expensive but worth it. GPS with good mapping software is great too. I use Okuma GLT 8'6" downrigging rods match with the okuma 45x magna pro reels. I prefer to have the okuma convectors but too expensive for me. Diawa also has great reels and rods. I use 30lb mono line with flurocarbon leaders. Lures- I switch up a lot. Stinger spoons are my favorite. Scorpion size i use more of. Chicken wing, steelie stomper, wonderbread are my top picks. Switch up often to what works. Buy more then one because if it works you want to be able to switch your setups to it. Also, I use 8" SpinDoctors with AtomMik or Big Weenie flys. My absolute go to is mountaindew spindoctor paired with big weenie proctoligist fly. Downriggers are great but you should consider buying two wire rod setups. I catch probably 70% of my fish on these rods. They are a pain it the butt!!! Magnum dipsy diver and your favorite lure. You can't keep them in the water.

This is epensive sport. Make your christmas list.

[bulletbob]

I appreciate the reply!

If I have to go through all kinds of expense and intense learning curves, I'll just sell the downriggers, as I just am not all that crazy about trolling of any type.. I just want to be able to catch a few fish in the Finger Lakes when I see them suspended at 25,50, 75 feet, and they won't hit jigs or when jigging is tough, say during windy days and such... I suppose I am way behind the times, but lots and lots of trout were caught using meat rigs with 50 lb test and 32 ounces of lead..

Won't active trout hit plain old trolled spoons and stick baits anymore??

I used to catch them spring and fall flatlining. Do they shy away from Rapalas and spoons when suspended deep these days?... Water too clear?

Do I really need to get all new "state of the art" stuff and get totally involved in this ?

It seems like it may be more trouble than its worth bob

[lil' troller]

you can get out there for cheap, i sent you a PM.

[Grifter]

Watch that Evinrude. Mix the oil and the gas 50:1 yourself, don't depend on their oil injection system. It fails without fail.

As far as trolling with downriggers there are other methods to present your lures to fish when they are suspended. Size 0 Dipsey Divers on braided/wire line will dive at a ratio of approximately 1 foot down for every 3 feet let out. "45 lb" copper line will sink at a ratio of approximately 22' for every 100 feet let out at 2 mph.

I would try these presentations with one or two downriggers. There are days when one presentation will not work but another presentation will. I have gone out on lake ontario so many times the last few years and all I catch fish on is my copper rods. I think back 15 years when I put 8 lines on my downriggers and still didn't catch any fish and wonder how many fish I would have caught back then if I had a dipsey diver and a copper rod.

[fishandaprayer]

Interesting discussion .. I'm new to the downrigger also ... well fishing deep any way. I have a couple of dipseys, but what is a "copper rod" ?

[bulletbob]

Watch that Evinrude. Mix the oil and the gas 50:1 yourself, don't depend on their oil injection system. It fails without fail.

As far as trolling with downriggers there are other methods to present your lures to fish when they are suspended. Size 0 Dipsey Divers on braided/wire line will dive at a ratio of approximately 1 foot down for every 3 feet let out. "45 lb" copper line will sink at a ratio of approximately 22' for every 100 feet let out at 2 mph.

I would try these presentations with one or two downriggers. There are days when one presentation will not work but another presentation will. I have gone out on lake ontario so many times the last few years and all I catch fish on is my copper rods. I think back 15 years when I put 8 lines on my downriggers and still didn't catch any fish and wonder how many fish I would have caught back then if I had a dipsey diver and a copper rod.

Yes, WELL aware of the OMC VRO system.. This one is intact, and the seller said its been 100% trouble free, but its coming off anyway.. I DON'T trust the VRO!

I have heard this story from a lot of guys- saying the wire dipseys outfish the riggers every time.. I really don't want to get into wire however... Big heavy rods and wire to catch 2-4 pound fish??... Doesn't thrill me.. I wouldn't mind dipseys on mono or good braid, which might work until June or so, until the thermocline sets up solid. At least with thin braid I could use reasonable tackle I would think..

I have to think it over.

I am most interested in basic set up of the riggers, and what to do as far as release equipment, ball weight-[found 2 in the boat] spoon colors to get started, line test etc... bob

[larry]

Down-rigging is a very simple way to control the depth of the lure you're presenting. The lure is attached to the cable with a release( cheapest being MuskyBob's biodegradable rubber bands) that will allow the angler to pull it off with the pole or a fish by striking the lure. A lead weight is used to pull the cable down and there should be a counter on the downrigger to indicate the depth. That's it. What-ever pole or lures you're use to running give them a try, watch how they run in water at the speed you are trolling if they have a good action that you think will produce, send em down, keep the line from going slack as you set it, tighten it a little more when it's at the depth you want. Try adding a cheater too, a piece of line about 8' long with a spoon on one end and a snap swivel on the other, once your main line is set reach out and grab the line and connect the snap swivel (crosslocks preferred) then toss out the lure. It will run at the bow in the line, that gives you 4 lures in the water and will increase your chance for success. Really not hard to do once you try and at your advanced age and AARP status you will find it easier on your arthritis to troll. Just kiddin' I'm at the speed limit too.

[jason]

lol.....larry, i think this is the most i seen your write in a long time and spoken like a champ...

bulletbob.... greens and purple spoons work great for the browns, landlocks and bows in the finger lakes.....streamer flies still works wonders in the finger lakes for cheap fishing....as far as spin dr and flies.....just buy green you dont need a 100 different colors...green catch browns, landlocks and lakers.....

[rshubuck]

Bulletbob. I don't want to scare you out of trolling cause of price. You can have a lot of fun just using your two downriggers. It just gets addictive and I found my self buying this and that. I would have 2 to 3 guys on the boat with me this summer and we just pounded the fish! I would say your looking at around 120 dollars for both downrigging rod setups. Then you just need your tackle. Its all about how much you want to spend on it. Really a few different spoons, spindoctors and flys will have you covered. Spoons $5 piece, Spindoctors $11-13 and flys $5-7. I use Blacks downrigger releases. I personally prefer them over others. They are about

$10 a peice. Read the weekly fishing reports for where the fish are and you will have it made.

If you really do get into trolling. I highly recomend you purchasing two wire rods. One for each side running dispy divers. One rod setup your looking at $130 new. I can't stress how successful I have been with these rods. And if you wand to get even more copper and lead core setups also are champs.

I put my boat up for the winter but around March or April I will have it back on the water. I am very willing to take you out and show you my setup.

[LongLine]

Bullet –

Keep it simple as you start out. Rigg’rs are all about depth control. You need to master the placement of your lure relative to where the fish are. I.e. learn to set the depth relative to interpretation of your fish finder. Knowing the temp and speed at the ball can help you a lot. Blowback of the cable and currents on Big-O have to be overcome.

One of the rigger’s biggest advantages is that it allows you to use fairly light line to play the fish. With clean spoons, in clean water on Big-O, I rarely run over 10-12 Lb test. For flasher/flies, I step up a little. A great deal depends on the release you use & how you set it. Black’s is a very popular release but many guys favor pinch pads. (I’m addicted to Black’s myself.) During flea season, lines get stepped up a little.

When I started salmon fishing, it was in a 14ft boat with a manual Riviera, a 6 1/2 ft Cherywood, a Mitchell 300, 8 Lb line and about a dozen lures. Oh, how it has evolved. One thing that hasn’t changed is that my hooks are unbelievably sharp.

Another thing to look at is the tuning of your lures. When you’re jigging, you impart the specific action to your bait. When you’re trolling, the lure runs by itself. When you turn, 1 will speed up & the other will slow down. Make sure your lures are running the way you want them to, before you lower them down.

Rigg'rs are one trolling tool. There are many tools. However, it's a safe bet that 98% of all the trollers on Big-O have at least one down all the time.

Tom B.

(LongLine)

[Sluggo / NY]

Bob.. As mentioned, downrigging (or trolling) can become addictive! The only time I don't have a rigger down is this time of year.. when I'm jiggin' up walleye on the river. I use them for walleye on Erie.. as well as Ontario and Cayuga for trout and salmon. You've already gotten plenty of good advice, but from my experience.. here's some more. For finger lakes downrigging.. I like Ugly Sticks for rods (I use 7-1/2'ers) and spinning reels. The reels I use are Bait Sensors that have a dual drag. When dropping the ball I just flip to the light drag and the line feeds out under slight tension. Once down, I flip to the normal drag setting. I started by using conventional spinning reels and feeding the line with my finger on the edge of the spool.. talk about line twist! Now that they've come out with smaller level wind reels (like Daiwa's 17's) there's more options.. plus they're perfect for Erie walleyes! As for releases.. I like the Canon pinch-pads behind the ball.. and the Roemmer's up the cable if running two rods per rigger (which I seldom do). Anyway.. there's some more BS to digest. If you want to try a couple of bait sensor setups this spring.. let me know. I think I have 8 of them and rarely use any! Good Fishing, Sluggo (Chris)