My god A lot of big bucks this year!

[salmonite]

Now here is a question for all of you guys and gals.... Are there more big and i mean big bucks killed this year???? I have gotten soooo many emails and txt msgs of huge bucks killed this year. Do you think its because ny is turning a corner and we are starting to produce biggins or do you think the technology age is to blame and we always kill big bucks and with a click of a button half of the state can see a 160 killed instantly? Regardless here are a few of many pics i got, The first is a 190 gross 170 net killed by a 17 year old in avon with a bow

my wife calls this "horn please no"

for some reason around this time of year i stop getting perverted messages on my phone and start getting these!

17pt 21 inch spread

here is a 167 killed today with in 1 mile of my property in Wyoming County. blacked out the guys face cause i don't know him and he might not want his face plastered all over the internet...

Of course we all saw Cathy Turner's buck....

sooo what are your thoughts? NY is turning into a big buck state or we always have been shooting big bucks its just easier to see everyone's giants???

[RUNNIN REBEL]

Salmonite,

I believe it is a combination of an ABOVE average growing season this year(vegetation-crops), weather related made it that way early & wet (got that from 4 different farms we hunt) Horns are genetics BUT affected greatly by food/protein availability.And 90% of hunters are hunting POSTED up property(which usually allows LESS total hunters on any given land and UNIFORMED set of harvest rules.

EXAMPLE:

1 property we are on there is no pushes/drives OR Sanctuary/bedding areas OFF LIMITS & 8pts or better/outside the ears on bucks harvested, PLUS my favorite you better not shoot a button buck!

A long cold/hard winter with a late dry spring and just the opposite.

Just my .03 cents

Jerry

[Capt Vince Pierleoni]

There are many more on here with more expertise than I on this subject. Everything Jerry said is true. With less driving, guys who care can identify button bucks and harvest mature does if they choose. I think that it has alot to do with overall population numbers being down. This provides more food for bucks at any age, especially when it is most critical in the late winter. In addition to this, with less does available to "lock down" with, the older ghost bucks are more prone to a mistake and daytime movement as they cruise for their next partner.

[reeltime]

vince & jerry are certainly correct.

in 35 years I have seen many changes in the sport of deer hunting, although

I grew up in the "deer days" of Pa. I understand things were the same around

here as well ( maybe not the #'s we had )

I can remember a good many years on the first day of the Pa season setting

the first day dark to dark and seeing 400+ deer, 60 + at a time walking by and

not a buck in the group and none over 115lbs. If someone in the county shot a

110" buck it made the newspaper! And god forbid if he let the cat outa the bag

as to where he shot it, cause there would be 100+ guys there the next day!

Back then there was no QDMA, Buckmasters, the crush, dream seasons etc. We

hunted to put FOOD on the table. everyone shot the first legal buck they saw

whether it was a 3.5" spike or a basket 6 pt.

as outdoor shows started catching on and letting bucks grow older started to

appeal to people slowly the trend started catching on, more antlerless tags

have been given out, herd numbers have dropped ( or decimated like some

area's of Pa now)

each year as hunter numbers drop and more people either on their own or

through fear of peer pressure pass on those 1.5 yo bucks it will only get

better. the scary part for me is the lack of youth hunters. I remember when

I was in school 2 kids out of my entire GRADE didn't hunt, boys and girls

BOTH hunted! The sport of hunting is a dying sport, there are not nearly

the people hunting now that there was 30 years ago. while there may still

be lots of guys hunting some area's other area's you don't see many guys

at all.

I think its a combination of a number of things as to why we are seeing more

good bucks being killed.

1. advancements of hunting equipment over the last 20 years is astounding.

everything from bows to guns to camo.

2. advancements in comfort items such as insulated clothing to boots to

tree stands, all make us more comfortable to be able to stay on stand

longer. All of the scent control stuff available today and the knowledge

passed on about being as scent free as possible.

3. the information highway, whether its tv shows or the "web" there is an

endless amount of information out there available at our fingertips.

4. basic deer biology knowledge, the people that want to hunt mature bucks

try to understand what they need to do to allow them to grow, they try

to understand if the habitat will only support x # of deer and your capacity

is at z then you need to drop the numbers so they are not stressed over

food. along the food lines is the food plots now that people are planting.

5. hunter maturity, I think as hunters mature their "ideals" change, its not

about just the harvest its about enjoying the whole hunt. some people

are satisfied with a nice 1.5 yo deer and the next guy has chosen to only

shoot 3.5+ yo deer, neither one is wrong, the only wrong thing is for

either one of them to push their standards on the other one.

6. the invention of trail camera's, and now with the digitals that are almost

silent in operation. 30 years ago there were no trail camera's, you

wanted to know what was there you went to your stand and you sat there

and watched what came by. That just simply wised up the deer! today you

put out a camera and once a week or every other week you go pull the card

and you KNOW what, when and where they were with minimal human scent.

Now you have a camera with a few pics or many pics of good bucks, NOW

you have a reason to pass on that smaller buck.

7. More people today are passing the smaller bucks up, before if you shot

the first legal buck to come by you were done and when the peak of the rut

happened you were already tagged out and that big one didn't get shot

cause everyone tagged out on smaller bucks early.

8. as Jerry said the posting of property, limiting the hunter numbers and a

group agreement as to what they want harvested and numbers. although

that can work on smaller pieces its much better to have large tracts of

land tied up to try and keep the deer on the property otherwise the

neighbors may shoot the bucks you guys pass up because they just want

to shoot any buck, and thats fine as long as you understand that going in.

I guess in closing I have to wonder where our sport is headed, I am fearful

that maybe all these shows are slowly pushing the only shoot the big bucks

theory and some people get so obsessed with it that it takes away from the

actual hunt.

Is the sport going to end up a rich mans sport because your only chances

of getting big bucks is leasing and as that catches on more and more the

cost per acre goes up?

I don't know where the sport is going, all I do know is that I will be hunting

as long as its legal and I am physically able to hunt.

[ray koziatek]

I ve noticed the same ,lets hope it ant a 1 year thing, Ive been concerned with the dogs (coyotes) wacking way too many.. the spot i grew up on rt 414 i had over 600 acres to hunt for 40 years the population has gone from 100's,,, to tens of deer and the dogs went from ,uheard of,,,, to groups of 4 to 10 being the norm...turkeys from the 50,s (count) to """0""" it ant from hunting pressurs ,food change,or cars...you do the math im justa dumb plummer..

t

[Capt Vince Pierleoni]

Excellent piece, Lee. I can add to the difference in the schools these days. I have clients from an area in central OH where they still give them opening monday off from school. They told me that a teacher there "went off" one day to her Jr high students about "how wrong" hunting of any kind was. Fortunately, some of the students opened their mouths and the teacher was reprimanded. Unfortunately, this type of influence is going on in public schools all across the country.

[chowder]

I live in a relatively low income part of Chenango/Cortland county and gun hunting pressure is pretty high. Land prices are relatively low as well so we have lots of little hunting camps where 5 guys own 3 acres & try to hunt some other guy's 300 or they pound the state land. Around here very little progress is being made in terms of QDM. I see a clear correlation between liberal doe tag allotments & better survival of young bucks. Doe tags are tighter this year & was @ the general store yesterday & couldn't help but notice the pickup w/ 2 spikers in it. Drive hunting prevails around here and most of these pilgrims have a 'if it's a buck then try to whack it' mentality. In general I would have to say that very few bucks make it past 2.5 around here.

[FX]

Great info guys and a reminder that every area is different. One key point, that Vince touched upon, is that with better doe management, bigger bucks will need to search out more does and there will be more competition for them. I have seen a lot more wounds and scars on the bucks I've skinned out from fighting this year compared to others.

Shawn

[Tank]

From my experience this year as well as others I have talked to it has been similar to fishing this year. Bigger deer but fewer numbers than other years. Unfortunately at my camp I am not seeing very many does. Saw only one in 12-15 hunts during bow where I normally see 20-40 in that time. Saw my normal 6-7 yearling bucks as well as a few close to 100 inch but that was it. I never saw ANY chasing and never even heard a grunt this bow season. I, unfortunately also never saw anything over 100 inches. I only spent the Saturday gun opener at camp but only saw one doe with a fawn at 140 yards. My brother went to my usual shotgun stand (idiot me for not going there for first time in 6 years) and shot at a 100 inch, thick 8 point but unfortunately he did not take him home. I only heard around 12 total shots all day within earshot Sorry for the rant but I have seen better years! WAY better. BUT it isn't over yet! Good hunting to all! Tank

[Gill-T]

Tank, if you are not seeing deer assume something is wrong. Usually there is a good explanation like local changes in food source. Take a walk and cover the whole area you are hunting. Many times deer will key on acorns deeper in the woods. A good tip off is if you are not seeing squirrels in your area. Deer, turkeys and squirrels will change their temporary core area based on food. Maybe your neighbor has put up food plots? Go bump some does and see what they were feeding on. Week two, start adapting stealth tactics. I will use drainages to come and go to my stand as to remain unseen and unheard Go in at dark and come out at dark which means bringing blankets, food and water to stay all day. Later in the season clearcuts with those nasty brambles (browse) keep hunters away and bucks secure. Don't take offence to my rant, just some suggestions that have helped me.

[Tank]

Gill-T, no offense taken. I am just deer depressed right now. I should have mentioned I also had a stand stolen from behind my house this week which is a first for me and has me baffled as to what kind of person could enjoy this incredible sport out of a stolen stand!? As for my property, I have never seen the population of does this low. I have been hunting my camp for 22 years. To the best of my knowledge nobody has any significant food source around me. I did not hunt a very productive stand for the first time this year to hunt a funnel that has been known to be a travel corridoor for BIG, traveling bucks during the rut. I have also shot several does in gun season from this stand. With a buck down early with bow I wanted to see what this stand would allow me to see this year. I have seen several good groups of does in a very green(wild but mowed) field just down the road from my camp, but that and a few in the yard and 4(seen by brother) the night before the gun opener is all. The very sparse shots on the gun opener speak volumes to me. I plan to hunt a stand on the edge of my bedding sanctuary at night and my go to hardwoods gun stand in the mornings on a well traveled ridge. It is still early but the does have me wondering what is going on on a property I normally fill my doe tags every year. We will see. Thanks for the feedback. Tank

[ray koziatek]

tank check out the "tracks "after the snow that should explain the population change ,,Hope that articile on the cover of the NYS Rules and Reg. book is true.....with the state spending a bunch of money to track dogs and see if they impact the deer herd... To bad i wernt a collage edubatiated gradeuate thats what happens when you spend yer whole life dediacaterd to fishing and huntin ya dont no nuttin .....this is the first year in over 25 i havent been playing in der woods almost every day of bow and gun seasons ,,,so a few others and myself might have some perdy good info ,,

But as someone mentioned this is a outstanding "nut" year tho they like(need) the proper mix of foods so it ant like their gonna migrate 40 miles away

[chowder]

We counted 48 does out in our meadows while spreading lime 2 days b4 the fire arms opener & I have only seen 3 deer during 4 afternoons while on stand after the opener. I shower w/ dead down wind body wash & keep my scent lok stuff sealed up & don't suit up till I'm ready to walk in. We have very heavy hunting pressure in firearms season here and I can only hunt afternoons so I'm not out during the prime am hours but still If I didn't live and work on this land I would be very tempted to say there just are not very many deer here.

I'm not trying to say that my observations hold true for other areas but once again folks we need to remember that if it was easy to find & kill these critters they would have been wiped out a long time ago!

[Capt Vince Pierleoni]

Real cool thread. Rather than hijacking this one I will start a new one about moon phases.

[Gator]

My two cents:

All day rain two years ago on the opener probably resulted in a decreased harvest and more 3.5+ bucks for us this year.

We pushed on Tuesday and of five spots, only one produced a couple does. However, we did push out a coyote for the first time ever. It's tough to get a good idea of deer #s in our area, as one of the neighbors essentially has a refuge and the deer move in herds at last light. But I would say overall #s are down, bigger bucks are up.

Our deer processor was at ~220 animals on Tuesday though, so according to him it's been a banner year, wind aside.

I'm waiting to see what the "final" rut period following this full moon brings. Besides 45mph wind...

[flashpoint]

Hey guys!! Really great posts!! I couldn't agree more with so many of the theorys, but we too are seeing some of the best deer that i have ever seen taken over here in Vermont this year. I just got a photo of a 150" tenpoint taken last weekend in central VT. For us that is a monster! !! A lot of nice 100 - 130" deer! In my opinion, two mild winters in a row coupled with a good growing season and our fourth year with antler restrictions has all played a part! Yes we too have had an exceptional mast crop year, but i have more rut sign...mainly scrapes...then i have ever seen!! Many bucks with scars & busted times as well!! Maybe this years moon phase has more to as well??? Be interesting to see as well what our total harvest ends up being!! Great thread guys...... thanks!!!

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[coswamp]

I thought that horn p0rn thing was funny, 'til I clicked on the pics and got blocked and the warning that "fun loving" is filtered out on my work computer. has to be the word p0rn that caused it. hahaha

[ray koziatek]

one more er i mean less

my brother and myself did one of our favorite spots ....If any one ever says dont shoot a laying deer listen to them I stalked a beauty watched him for 30 min and lost my paitence so I snuk a shot ,,,yup igave hima shave lots of hair on the ground tracked 150 yds in the snow and nuttin but a few more hairs hmm now who was saying on here "Woulda Shoulda Cuda" i was shakin like kid on his first hunt with a tiny wondow to sneak in the shot.......i hate missing specially when I know better,,,ahh it only had 6 in eyeguards probly wouldnt of even scored over 150 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!

thats better now back at it in the morning...

[Gill-T]

That is a hoss!!! Great deer, now put some friekin' orange on before someone with poor eyesight puts a slug in ya'.

[muskybob]

DANG, tell Stan nice deer.

[L&M]

Did he get that one today Ray?

[ray koziatek]

yup

[chowder]

That's a heck of a buck, congrats to the Ray Bro! -Andy

[W.W.IV.]

KEEP TRYING RAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

[ray koziatek]

well i feel better that the buck i gave a haircut to wont have a cold spot on him this winter,,,,,a ex friend got him it was only 17.5 inside with 12 in g2's....Double noteto self NEVER tell a ex friend where ya saw a big buck.... havent seen it yet but he guesses 135

Musky ya got any good recipes for Aderondic "Deer Hair Stew"