I have had enough

[Steelman]

Heres the deal, I am fed up with disrespectful a-holes. I live on the salmon river and have almost 200 acres of land and for some reason every local yahoo seems to think that they can hunt and trap it any damn time they like. Seems like I am constantly kicking people off who seem to be unable to read a posted sign. I have kicked out 3 different trappers in 3 days and several hunters since gun opened. Some yahoo even had the balls to build a ground blind out of a bunch of brush and one corner of it was a tree with one of my stands in it. Yesterday I found a dead buck. When I got closer to it I discovered it was the big 10pt I have been after for 2 years and have several pics of him. Gut shot and left from the lack of a ethical hunter who not only is a trespasser and an idiot. So I am left pissed off and with a set of antlers from a buck that died and went to complete waste. Sorry to rant but, but I just want to say to those hunters that do not give a crap and think they can and will hunt anywhere they want regardless of being posted or not stay off my land and quit giving all of the respectful hunters such a bad reputation. I hear hunters all the time complain about not having land to hunt and land being bought and posted or landowners leasing out hunting rights. My posted signs went up due to a-hole hunters and in return I deny anyone permission. Its too bad this is how our hunting has turned out. I thought I would never say this but I cannot wait for the season to end. I have had enough chasing people off. Unless they have a fishing pole in their hand I will be prosecuting anyone I see on my land from this point forward. No more phone calls to trappers and no more warnings to hunters. Your caught you get a trip to the judge. I encourage everyone to use your brain and if you see someone without one put a boot in their a$$ and let them know they are the ones ruining it for the rest who actually care and respect people and wildlife.

[seasquirrel]

I feel your pain. Spend time tossing people off our property every year. Really pisses me off too. Gets old real fast. They dont think its a big deal either. Repeat offenders every year. Guess if one of them was shot "by accident" people may get the message.

[Legacy]

Gun season seems to bring out the worst of people.

[ryanrobb52]

I feel your pain, there is nothing worse than spending countless hours scouting just to have some inconsiderate a#% sit under your stand the one day you arent there and kill a nice buck. We chase them off our property every year up north and I have no idea how to make it stop.

[3dfx]

its really quite simple, catch them and have their a%^es arrested! works wonders and it wont be long before the word gets out. took me one time to catch a scum bag on my farm, now the words out! so what if they don't like me... i pay the taxes! Dave

[Capt Vince Pierleoni]

Sorry you have to go through that. I've had 2 stands stolen that were LOCKED in the last 3 bow seasons, from properties that I had permission on. I've always felt that it would be the ultimate to have a couple hundred acres of my own. I guess it would just end up a nightmare.

[ray koziatek]

I feel the pain had to take some plate numbers after the 6 guys said they had permission to use my road and were only tracking a deer they woonded on the land i lease..I just politly informed them took a vidio of the whole thing and let the law handle it ....talk to the dec .. their are several classes of tresspassing in acoradence of how the signs are placed and labled ,,,,the dec are only to be called for a actual game violation occurance ...if its just trespass call the sheriff or troopers.. but start with a cup of coffee and the dec for proper posting rules for max protection and max level of traspass charges ,,

good luck maybe some

"LIVE SHOOTING RANGE STAY OUT SIGNS"

MIGHT HAVE EM THINKING TWICE ...As far as the gut shot ,a pushed deer can travel several 1000 yds ,I agree with your gut feeling of being shot on your land but he could of wandered from ajoining lands

[3dfx]

not necessarily, i have a fairly large tract of property and it really hasnt been an issue! seems like every year i get some property border incroachment early on but i tend to make an example out of the person if i catch them. trail cams are a wonderful tool, it is easier to pattern a hunter than it is a deer in some cases. i am on a first name basis with the local encon officers as well as the state police, they will happily show up any time i call with a potential complaint. i used to leave for warmer temps prior to the end of firearms season.... no more of that! i have to much time and money managing my farm for me than to have some a$%bag drop the hammer on a deer i have passed on all bow season. i am most likely that land owner everyone hates here, the one with the property that harbors "all the deer" once the shooting begins. but again....i pay the taxes and the mortgage! Dave

[momay4000]

Ray - with all due respect you are not correct with your comment about the "DEC are only to be called for a (sic) actual game violation..." Just today I had to deal with the DEC (law enforcement division) who we called after we were given his number by the 911 service in Genesee County. Essentially we have had a "local" tresspassing on my uncle's property for the past few years and this year we found his climbing treestand in the center of our woods.

The DEC officer was dispatched to our property - not the state or local police - and he confiscated the stand, put a card on the tree where it was found, and if the knucklehead calls the number to retrieve the stand he will be given a ticket for tresspassing.

This was new to us (we also thought the DEC was only for "game" related problems) but he explained he is part of the Law Enforcement Division. He was tremendous and will be looking out for us from now on. He also mentioned that most of his calls are for trespassing.

Just my 2 cents,

- Chris

[ray koziatek]

Yer right i only reapeded what the dec said to do for faster response if the dec is busy,the dec can and will enforce all land issue laws and probly a few more ..

But he said its a busy season for them they work long and off hours through the night sometimes are streatched thin...I have the 3 guys who cover several counties and work different shifts cell phone numbers on speed dial ,but them boys are busy busy now.I should of said its recomended that a trespass only violation call the other branches of law enforcment..A treestand issue or bait ,might fall into a probable hunting violation..along with discharging a weapon without any woonded animal in sight ...i ant much of a typer so as i said give em a call have a cup of coffee and discuss all the situations when to call them or someone else to lighten their load,,,and yes to the 100% satisafaction of working with a bunch a great guys and gals who care about the folks they represent and the animals they protect....,,AS I ALWAYS SAY WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO THE RULES AND INTERPATATIONS CALL DA MAN FOR THE BEST SCOOP!

[momay4000]

Ray,

I would have thought the same thing that you did - leave the "game" violation stuff to the DEC and the law violations such as trespassing to the police - until my experience today. You may also be correct that the tresstand situation might be different than a person actually caught trespassing on your property.

Honestly, I didn't even know a Law Enforcement Divison existed within the DEC, but I was really impressed with what I saw.

Later bud,

- Chris

[Steelman]

I called the DEC last year when I seen flashlights going through my land and the state troopers showed up. State Trooper told me to call them instead of the DEC since they are in high demand. From what I understand and correct me if Im wrong here but I was told that a DEC officer has more power than a trooper or someone from the sherrifs dept. Game enforcement is out of their relm as opposed to a dec officer has the athourity to deal with all situations. Unfortunetly I only see a dim future for our DEC. Seems some forced retirement and layoffs and now talk of another 250 dept members getting laid off. Got to love Patterson but that is a topic of all its own. You guys do realize Im from Altmar and there are people in this town that can get arrested several times for the same damn thing without ill regard ( and being arrested just means they get a visit and a ticket for an appearance in court). One in particular has appeared in court for tresspassing but unfortunetly our town judge collects court fees and gives the speech dont do it again. At one point in time I had one guy in particular sitting in my treestand who has been to see the judge a few times. When I approached him and demanded him to leave he proceeded to give me a speech that he can and will hunt anywhere he darn well pleases. Well I gave him a quick warning that I would be back in 10 minutes and if he isnt gone when I get back hes going for the ride of his life. 10 minutes later I was at the base of that tree with him still in it when I fired up the chainsaw and I still laugh my butt off at how fast he came down that tree. One problem I am having is the friggin easement along the river. Seems everyone thinks that since there is an easement they have a right to treat the land like they own it. What they dont realize is it is just a damn right away for them to fish the river. DEC does not allow you to post the line with traditional posted signs per a phone conversation with them on the rights of the easement and posting it. They are suppose to supply their own posted signs and after many phone calls a year later I dont have them. So I got land posted on 3 side except the most important one. So tomarrow Im off to buy some more signs and Im posting anyways and if they have a problem with it too bad.

Ray I do realize a badly hit deer can and will travel a long way. Thing is I backtracked his trail following the spots of blood and the way he walked he was scuffing his feet that he came from the river valley and went up a pretty darn steep hill to where I assume he laid downed and expired. That valley is surrounded by that big hill except for the river. So either that buck came down that hill of neighbors land ( who I made an agreement with to snowplow and cut the dead trees for the sole hunting and trapping rights to) or crossed the river. I have to assume he got shot on my land. Any of you run into some A-hole kicking and screaming at some guy along the river come over and say Hi cause its probably me lol.

[chowder]

We own/lease/rent,etc hundreds of crop land acres in 4 towns here in a high altitude portion of 7M. Although I've largely given up attempting to contend w/ poaching/trespass issues because I simply can't spend the time on it and have gotten used to the outrageous extent of these activities.When I have been forced to deal w/ this stuff I have had the best luck working with the State Police on trespassing issues, and the worst luck w/ local law enforcement. For whatever reason the DEC is extremely backed up in my area and responds very slowly so I have minimal experience w/ their trespassing & game violation protocols.

Since this seems like an appropriate place to vent over twenty years of frustration w/ this whole thing I will add my 2 cents to this diatribe by saying the following: You aren't really sick of gun season and trespassers till you see the same bunch of worthless 'unemployed, 'out on comp', or otherwise unwilling to work, white trash driving back and forth all day long to and from trespassing/hunting while you are too busy working to hold onto the land they are hunting to do anything about their B.S. except be weirdly jealous of the fact that somehow they can get away with hunting all day every day of the season.

O.K. I feel better after getting that off my chest! -Andy

[Steelman]

Sounds about right Chowder. I own land in 7m as well as here at home. When I got it 12 or 13 years ago I spent the first 2 years doing nothing but throwing people off. I gave them all a warning and the second time around I called the state troopers on them. It is amazing the difference between here and there. It actually worked for the most part and I am known as the Ahole. I remember walking back from a morning watch through state land that borders my property and there was a guy close to my posted line. I started to cross it and this guy who I never seen before says to me" I wouldnt cross that line I have been told that guy is the biggest Ahole and wont put up with it" I yelled back to him and said thanks Im that Ahole lol. Twice this year I have ran into DEC down there checking around which is cool.

[mike fronczak]

It sounds like you guys having the problems are completly in your rights & I completly agree with you about the trespassing. When I used to hunt I was told who was allowed on the property, anyone else we were to tell to leave immidiatly or call for law enforcement, never had to. Maybe you should allow a couple good guys you know to hunt, etc, in exchange for helping post, throw out trespassers, etc. Then you might be able to enjoy the season. Just an idea. BTW I liked the chainsaw story

[Steelman]

Mike its funny you just said that cause I called my neighbor who hunts and has a son who will be hunting next year and aasked him to come over for a cup of coffee and a chat. I was going to offer him permission to hunt with stipulations on only taking big bucks except if his boy has a chance to take his first deer on my land anything is fair game if they posses proper tags to harvest it in exchange for some help with tresspassers. Its a good idea until he shoots a whopper buck and then I will be rethinking that plan lol.

So with all my whining and giving up I woke up this morning and its a whiteout. 13 year stepson says to me if it stops snowing your taking me hunting. Well I really was adiment about it but when it stopped I took him out. Decided we would just find some fresh tracks and follow them in hopes of getting a deer. So almost imediately we find a lone set of tracks. After 4 hours and many circles lol we managed to jump this deer 3 times. The deer went down into the river valley and I told him hurry up if we get on top of this ridge he either has to cross the river or play ghost. We get on the ridge and there he is 150 or so yards down in the valley. I put the binos on him and its a small rack 7pt. I tell the boy he too small and needs to grow more. The look on his face of disapointment and he whispers to me you havent been deerles since Ive known you and this would be our first deer together you gotta shoot. So I did. The smile on his face when he held up that rack made all the BS fade away and Im thankfull he put some spirit back into me after such a dismall season. Not the greatest deer and one I would have never shot if he wasnt there but sometimes its not about the rack its about the values and time shared in the woods with a stepdad and stepson that makes it worth while.

[Second Chance 22]

Steelman, what did you use to tag the 7point? If you kept the rack from the gut shot 10 point, you were required to use you tag on that deer.... am I missing something here?

[Steelman]

You really think im putting a tag on a dead buck that was gutshot by a trespasser, found dead and eaten by coyotes? Never heard of such a thing. How many guys put a tag on a deer hit by a car or tag on a set of shed antlers they find in the woods. But hey I will go outside and put my bow/muzzleloader tag on it sense Im not using it. Never heard of such a thing and I will call the dec to get some details on this. Or maybe I will just throw it back in the woods and wait till spring and see if I find it while shed hunting.

[Second Chance 22]

Cutting a rack off a deer corpse during the hunting season is much different than picking up sheds.

You were required to tag the 10 point when you reduced it to your possesion. If you had asked the DEC they would have told you that could surrender the carcass (including the rack) for a new tag since it was unfit to eat, or and "keep" the whole animal tagged. Of course you would have only kept the rack in practice- but you would have been required to use your tag.

I know this from first hand experience. One of my friends shot a very non-typical buck that had gangrene (big time). At our request, DEC responded to the scene and layed out our options as stated above. He elected to keep the non-typical rack- the carcass stunk so bad that even the yotes wouldn't touch it.

I totally agree with you that you should have just left it there until this winter.....

Also, many people who hit deer with cars do get the proper tags to possess (even legally transfer if they wish) the deer that they hit. Down our way the authorities hand them out like popcorn.

[Steelman]

Sorry but finding a dead deer half eaten by coyotes is a little different than shooting a buck and declaring it unfit to eat. My statement was sarcasim. In fact the damn head wasnt even attached to the body and I have pictures of the thing. If any DEC officer wants to issue me a ticket for picking up a friggin set of antlers off a carcass on my land then so be it and I will gladly inform them of the waste of time they just spent doing so intead of spending their time chasing poachers, trespasser and other such criminals in the field. And from what Im gathering your trying to say is if I left it till December 6 the day after our season closes it would be okay in your book to pick them up then? If so tell me what the hell sense does that make?

[Steelman]

Oh by the way I never said I cut the rack of the deer. They are still intact with head exacally like I found them.

[Gator]

Okay, let's get this thread back on track.

I agree completely with the sentiments on this board. We lease land and we're protective of our lease.

Now here's the kicker...when any subset of society stratifies into "haves" and "have-nots", there is going to be an element of the "have-nots" that decides to just take, regardless. As hunting land and permission have become harder to obtain and land access has become increasingly restricted due to leasing, among other things, the "have-nots" have increased in number. Most of these folks are law abiding citizens, but the sheer volume of people who can't find a place to hunt anymore means that a few bad apples becomes more than a few bad apples. And hence we have these trespassing issues.

It's going to get worse as more and more of the land gets leased. It's gone that way in other parts of the country and it's going that way here, as well. It's a no-win situation, because as land use becomes more restricted, we lose hunters. Participation declines until only the privileged ($$$) or extremely dedicated have a bucket to sit on opening day. And the public sentiment turns against us.

I don't have any answers, and to me it looks inevitable. Anybody got ideas??

[on the lam]

I don't have any answers, and to me it looks inevitable. Anybody got ideas??

I can make a few suggestions. The have nots don't have much in the first place, so thats why there trying to take advantage of whats yours. With that in mind, a lowlife trespasser/poacher is easy to profile as you all should know. he's the guy with the pick up truck with the gun rack in the rear window. In most cases this is one of his finest possessions next to his singlewide.

So I would suggest implementing a judiciary like form of punishment. 1st offense: find his truck while he is in the woods on your property and smash the windshield with a baseball bat Remember not to leave the bat because he may beat his wife with it when he gets back to the singlewide. 2nd offense: find his truck and run your knife through the sidewalls of all 4 tires Chances are he will drive away on the flats, then steal 4 more to replace them. so... 3rd offense: take a empty gallon milk jug and fill with gasoline. Tape a M-80 firecracker to the side with duct tape. Place the jug on the front seat of his truck and delay the fuse with a cigarette. If you feel like it, stay close enough to the truck for when it erupts so you can videotape the event and mail the tape to the a@@hole later.

If the trespasser comes back to your property after all that, call the cops

[chowder]

I agree w/ Pete on the issue of inevitability w/ respect to leasing becoming the predominant hunting access rationing dynamic.

As far as dealing w/ repeat trespassers I've found that coating the offender's vehicle about a foot deep with liquid dairy manure works wonders ( I've also been taken to court for doing this, so be careful!) -Andy

[Gator]

Now, nobody on here is advocating anything illegal, to be sure

Just a little bit of justifiable frustration.

There's not enough e-cons to keep even the most flagrant violators at bay. How do you protect what you've paid for? Maybe we need to move to a system like in Alberta, CA, where it's illegal to accept $$$ for hunting rights. That puts everyone on equal footing. Of course, it would probably be a victory for the yahoos and it won't solve landowners' issues of trespassing.

Okay, I'm off to sit in my own piece of bought-and-paid-for heaven.