Default 4 Rod Set Up

[Big Water]

After cutting my teeth on Ontario this past year and getting necessary rod/line combos, I've got a set up question. Most of the time it's just me and one other person in my boat. I now have the following set ups 2-Wire rods, 2-copper rods (300'), 2-braid rods and 2-leadcore rods (8 and 10 color). Since I can only run four rods, my thoughts for a default (exploratory) set up are to run the 2 wire rods (1 w/flasher/fly and the other with spoon), 1 deep rigger w/ flasher/fly and one copper with spoon till one shows it's outperforming the others. When running just four rods, what would be your recommended combinations of lines and flasher/fly vs. spoons?

Thanks,

Doug

[spoonfed-1]

All depends where the fish are in the water column but I will generally start with 3 riggers and one wire.

Attractors and flys and spoons.

Then let the rods and the fish finder tell you what or what not to do.

Glen

[Gill-T]

What glen said. You can cover a lot of the water column from 15' to 105' down, depending on the size of diver disks with wire or braid. Chose the disk and distance back to reach the target depth of where you are seeing fish or the temperature you target. A precision trolling guide is a must! Generally, my two person four rod spread is two divers and two riggers cheated.

[bout time]

I almost always run 4 rods due to the number of people that fish with me. I will always run 2 riggers, one on each corner and one wire diver per side. I will generally run spoons on the riggers and spinny/flys on the divers. If the spinnys are hot i will run one on the rigger too. If you have a third or fourth person go thats when i would add your copper and lead. with your 300' copper you are limited to depth so unless the fish are in the mid to upper water column i would stick with riggers and wires to cover greater depths.

MIKE

[Big Water]

Having only one year under my belt, I have a lot of learning to do about set ups and spreads. I do know that while listening to the marine band radio this past year, I was always hearing boats talking about hitting them on 300 copper. Sometimes charters were saying it was the only rig taking hits, which is why I thought it belonged in the default set up. Now that I have a temp probe, I should be able to tell if 300 copper will get me to the desired depth. Thanks guys!!

[Capt Vince Pierleoni]

You seem like a sharp angler, as you are plotting your attack for spring now. You will be pretty proficient relatively soon, I would expect. Just keep in mind, sometimes less is more. A boat only hitting 'em on 300 coppers may be spooking them with the rest of their set. With your simpler set, you may be able to produce with other methods and presentations. Kings and Browns are some of the greatest trolling fish on the planet. Put together some simple programs that work at different times of year, then expand from there. These next few years will be the "wonder years" for you, and many memories will be made. Good Luck!

[Big Water]

Thanks Capt Vince. Your willingness to help and responses are always appreciated.

[momay4000]

Big Water,

It sounds like you already have a really good feel for things after just one year. Roughy 75% of the time, I'm fishing a two man spread of four rods so I'll give you what usually works for me.

I don't target browns much, so here's my take for salmon, steelhead and lake trout : In the early Spring I usually fish two riggers with long leads and usually one shallow wire diver and a junk rod somewhere between three and seven color lead core off an in-line planer. I am a fanatic with down speed and if I'm not getting hits yet there's fish on my graph, I'll play with speed most of the time before I'll change anything in my spread. That being said, this time of year, the fish are scattered in the water column and seem to be more "boat shy" if the water is clear, so I like to run longer leads at shallower depths. If the fish seem to be coming off mostly high hits, I may change the shallow wire to another shallow lead core, or a flat-lined mono rod fished with a 5/8 ounce keel weight, on an in-line planer board. This time of year, I'm fishing 75% spoons, although I usually like to run one flasher on my wire rod to act as an attractor to get 'em into my spread. This past year the fishing in front of my home port of Irondequoit Bay was very tough in the early Spring so I focused most of my efforts on lake trout stuck to the bottom. I fished with cowbells and peanuts and it made the difference between catching one silver fish vs. 20 of the mud pigs (if I can catch lakers - you can catch lakers).

I find things a little easier as summer approaches as the water column sets up and thermocline takes shape. This time of year I usually start with two riggers with spoons and free sliders, putting my deepest rigger in 42-44 degree water and working up from there. I also start with two wire divers, usually both with flasher/fly combos. The past two years I have gone to my copper set-up ( 400'-600' )many times and once it hits (even small fish) I can't put it away. If the wire divers are slow, I usually swap one out for the copper. If I notice my free sliders on the riggers are hitting, but nothing else, I'll usually try a stealthy rod such as lead core fished at the same depth as the free slider which is usually about 1/2 the depth as the rigger it's on, or I'll change the flasher on the wire to a spoon and fish it at the same depth as the slider. This year, the spoons on high wires in the summer usually translated into lots of steelhead bites.

Keep in mind, it's not only the depth that each type of presentation can achieve, but it's also the "signature" that each presentation has in the water. Certainly a flasher/fly fished 10' off a down rigger ball has a much different look to a salmon than the same combo fished off wire or the 600' copper.

Finally, Capt. Vince has a great point - keep in mind sometimes less is more. Some of my best fishing the past few years has been solo with only one rigger and usually one wire and many times those solo days have outfished my days with three guys on my boat and six rods.

Keep it simple, keep it fun and try and learn something every day you are out there.

Good luck,

- Chris

[Gator]

I will add that mixing divers and copper can be an interesting experience. Most of us here have had the joy of having to untangle our sets, perhaps losing a bunch of copper due to twisting. It seems to depend upon how the down currents are running and how quickly you deploy your rigs. If you are only running four rods and you want to mix in a copper, you might want to think about inline planer boards. The Church boards handle a 300-400' copper easily. It's a bit different presentation compared to one down the chute, but two coppers off the boards and two riggers in combination is a decent default spring option. Running all copper in stealth mode is a powerful presentation, as well, using the big boards and clips.

Last year, the problem with the coppers is that they were getting hit by skippy so much, and these smaller fish didn't survive the journey to the boat really well. Like Vince says, trial and error are the best teacher. Half the fun is in learning how to figure it out!

[orangediablo]

Having only one year under my belt, I have a lot of learning to do about set ups and spreads. I do know that while listening to the marine band radio this past year, I was always hearing boats talking about hitting them on 300 copper. Sometimes charters were saying it was the only rig taking hits, which is why I thought it belonged in the default set up. Now that I have a temp probe, I should be able to tell if 300 copper will get me to the desired depth. Thanks guys!!

I was wondering about this too. Last summer was my first trolling for salmon and not too cought up on everything yet so what exactly does 'hitting them on 300 copper' mean?

[Shade]

It is copper line. You can get it in 30# or 45# test. First you need a good 30#test mono or braid line as a backing, then spool your copper either 300', 400', 500' as high as 700'. Then you want to put about 30 - 50' of flurocarbine line leader.

This rig is run down the shute (center of your boat) or on big planner boards (big john). Copper line runs about 22' down for every 100' out. The difference in running copper vs. steel is you eliminate the dipsy (less drag). Downside, it is a very heavy rig with the pole, reel and line but very effective. Check out A-Tom-Mic web site and you will see pre spooled reels.

Shade

[UpGrady]

I too am generally running a 4 rod spread in the spring and summer and my goto setup is normally a pair of riggers with spoons and free sliders on each along with a pair of wire divers. I do not run copper, but will run leadcore at times. In my opinion I start with this setup because it is easy to find speed and direction with the combination of the rigger cables and the divers if you do not have down speed. But even with downspeed you sometimes need a judgement call with rigger cables and divers. Everyday is different and to have other options in your arsenal is always a good thing to try when your goto setup is not working.

The spring can be the most difficult when you might want to target deep kings and surface steelhead/coho, so you need to adapt your setup. and nearshore browns obviously dicate board lines and riggers.

I can tell you that even in the summer the few times I have 3 or 4 people with me, I seldom run more than 2 riggers and 2 divers... less can be more MANY times!

[Has Been]

All I can say from my vast years of experience(If that means anything) is to keep it simple. Make what you have work, tweek it till it does. for me it would be.

Early Spring shoreline close-4 on boards w/ stickbaits

Out a little deeper - 2 0n boards 2 on outdowns back 100 or more ft, a few ft down

Spring Bar Kings & Summer-4 riggers or 2&2 dipeys, I won't use copper.

When I start mixing things up & throwing the kitchen sink at them , I usually don't do well.K.I.S.S for me.

A good quote is, " Pretty thin playbook you got there coach".Coaches reply was, " 6 plays , Split V , works everytime , just like novicane" . The best playbook in the world won't work unless you have the tools or experience to run it. And if you are good, you don't need them anyway. Go with the proven methods.Less can be more.

[YodaMage]

For 4 lines, which is my usual:

Early spring, 2 flat lines, 2 on planner. Only both with one board in this case.

Then I transition as spring progresses to 2 flat, two on riggers.

Finally I end up with 4 on 2 riggers, stacked. (possible sliders when we get deep enough).

I occasionally run a dispsies but never found them to be worth the hassle. I won't run copper or lead ever. I catch my share.

With two guy fishing, last thing you need when one guy is trying to steer and the other fight a fish is some crap hanging off the back of the boat 500' down the chute, which is where the fish will be. Another thing I've found useful in fishing with minimal man power is moving riggers about 4' up from the corner, leaving a nice pocket in either back corner of the boat for netting fish.

[YodaMage]

P.S., I rarely clear lines or pull all gear to fight or land a fish, unless it is a real big boy. A third guy makes that much more viable, but with two it isn't always so practical. As a matter of fact, anything short of about 12-15 pounds I've become quite adept at netting with the rod in the other hand solo.

[Fishtails]

Just to throw another piece into the puzzle, I have had some good days in the summer and fall fishing nothing but 4 dipsey rigs. It sure isn't my go to 4 rod setup by any means, (though a couple guys on this board may disagree) but when the fishing is tough, I definitly find myself running that set up more and more.

[slapshot]

Great discussion. I am in the same boat, no pun intended. I have been testing the water of Lake O for the past 2 years and have tried almost everything. Especially after reading the posts on this site. When I try what is recommended on this site, to say the least we have been skunked many times. I guess we still have a lot to learn, so any help is greatly appreciated. We have 2 riggers, 2 Big Jon Otters, 1 copper (700'), 1 lead core, and 6 braid (w/ dipseys). One thing we have not tried is using a free slider or slider. How do you set this up on a 4 rod spread? Where do the cheaters go and how are they rigged? Maybe this set up will increase our chances. Thanks.

Tony (Slapshot)

[Shade]

Slapshot,

Cheaters or sliders add an additional lure to your pole. Take your spoon and set it back 10-15 feet, hook it to your release and sent it down about 12 feet. Take a leader about 10' long and on one end tie a snap swival and on the end tie a snap. Attach your spoon to the snap swival and the other end snap to your line. Toss the lure into the water and contiue to send your rigger to your desired depth. At around 15' above your release a bow will be in the line and that is where the slider will stop.

This allows you to run 6 lures with only 2 poles.

Shade

[Has Been]

Slapshot, time of year you fish is very important as to setup. A few weeks makes a big difference springtime, depending on where you fish on the lake& what you target . Early April is a very good time for Brown action along shore w/ those otter boards for Browns' cohos & the occsional King.Best fishery for starting out IMO. Ask just before you come up & plan your trip for a PRIME time . Also, I go by The KISS plan. Early spring, 4 rods W/ stickbaits on boards for good brown action. Speed is important.don't get discouraged. Good luck .Remember, PRIME TIMES= best chance. Late April - May ,great deepwater off Niagara Bar for Kings Cohos & Lakers .Riggers & Dipsies for them .KISS. Get lure Faves off here.

[slapshot]

Shade and Has Been,

Thanks for the valuable info. We fish out of the River or Olcott for the most part, I would just like to catch a few fish and any info that will increase our odds, I will certainly take. Thanks for the picture set up with the cheater lines, I always wondered how that worked. Well I guess, the only thing now is to get out there and see if we can make things work. Good luck to you guys this year.

Tony (Slapshot)

[Has Been]

Great area over there . When do you go? What time of year?

[excavr]

Attach your spoon to the snap swival and the other end snap to your line. Toss the lure into the water and contiue to send your rigger to your desired depth. At around 15' above your release a bow will be in the line and that is where the slider will stop.

What stops the slider from tangling around your mainline lure when you retrieve? I have a mental picture of a fish or lure all wrapped up with the slider leader.

[Shade]

I never had a tangle around my main line. Most of the time the fish will hit the slider,at least that has been our experience. When a fish hits your pole that has a slider set up, leave the pole in the rod holder and reel quickly to remove the slack. The problem comes when you net the fish because you have 2 spoons. The spoon may get caught in the net. Once you have boated the fish remove the slider from the main line and retrieve your spoons. It is not as bad as you are picturing it, try it and you will have more action. If you want to eliminate any tangles we have b2 poles set up exclusively for sliders. Remove you snap swival and slide a beed on the line, use about 12 feet of line and tie an Albright knot to attach both lines together. This will disallow the bead to go past the knot. Depending on how long your rigger poles are is how long you want the leaders to be. Reattach the snap swival to your main line and when you run your cheater attach it above the beed and make that leader about 6" to a foot shorter then your main line. This will avoid the spoon to get caught if the fish hits the main line. This difficult to explain you need try it to understand it.

Howie.

[Gill-T]

The cheater slides down the line to the main line lure, thus extending behind it. With a fish on the main line, the cheater just drags behind. If you get a fish on the cheater, you are reeling up the fish til the main lure is near the rod tip. The main line lure acts as a STOP to the cheater line.

[YodaMage]

You need to keep the cheater short, and though it does add a little bit of a tangle in the net, it is manageable. Keep in mind the main swivel/lure is a stop at the first guide at the end of the pole, so the cheater length is as close as you can get the fish to the tip/boat. I run them only 6' long as a rule.