Please help me decide what to do with my old 17' glass boat

[CatFisher]

Hello everyone!

Thank you in advance for considering my post! I joined LOU last Summer when my girlfriend and I got our first boat, which was a small 12' row boat and trailer. We are both very new to boating, and are very thankful to have a resource such as this to help us as we try to learn the ins and outs of owning boats. I'm posting today because late last Summer we were given our second boat, and I'm trying to decide what, if anything, we can do with it. The boat in question is a 1973 Sea Ray 900, it came with a 1974 Johnson 115, and a single axle trailer. It's an old boat, in need of seats, but fairly solid over all. The motor will not seem to start cold unless you spray some starter fluid in it. However, it's starts immediately once it's been hit with the starter fluid, and restarts easily once it's warmed up. I do have the registration for the boat and trailer, and everything was transfered in my name last year (lucky me!).

Could anyone offer us some suggestions as to what we can do with such a rig? We understand the boat and motor are old, and we're considering whether it's even worth putting any money into such a vessel, or trying to get something newer and more reliable this Spring. If we abandon this boat, what would be our options for getting rid of it? I would think I could sell the trailer and probably the motor for at least a few hundred, but that leaves a hull to deal with. Does anyone know how to dispose of the hull? Can it be donated without a trailer or motor? Or, I've heard there are places that offer hull disposal at a fee; does anyone know how that would work? Any other idea would be greatly appreciated!!

Thanks very much!!

-CatFisher

[rolmops]

If you are good with your hands and capable of following directions in a FACTORY manual in order to service and maintain the engine you could do well with this setup. Fiberglass lasts a long time and it is heavy enough to provide a stable boat.As for your engine, it is a thirsty machine and probably a bit too large for your boat although probably still within the specs limits. If you can find a mid eighties 75 horse johnson/evinrude you will have an engine big enough for regular boating purposes.

If you choose to get another boat,then you would still be able to get a few hundred dollars for this one. Or you can donate it to the Salvation army or some place like that and get a tax write off.

good luck.

[Broadhorizons]

I had one I got rid of this Fall. Took the motor and controls off and towed it to the landfill. I wanted to keep the trailer too. I got to the landfill, went through the scales and towed it to the top of the pit. Backed up to the edge, unstrapped it from the trailer and the operator gently set the loader bucket on it to hold it in place. He had me drive off pulling the trailer out from under the boat. Then back across the scales. It was an 18' glass boat and disposal weight was about 1100#. I had to make sure to get all the oils/fluids out of it before they would take it. Cost $40.

This was a NY landfill though.

[CatFisher]

If you are good with your hands and capable of following directions in a FACTORY manual in order to service and maintain the engine you could do well with this setup.

Hello, rolmops, and thank you for your prompt reply! In fact, I did buy the Seloc repair manual last year, and I have the original Johnson manual on order from an eBay vendor as we speak. I do understand from the information here on the LOU forums that the Selocs are no substitute for the originals I am reasonable handy, and have most basic hand tools. Would it be possible for me to disassemble this motor myself, and rebuild it, using a qualified mechanic to do the work I can not? Would it even be worth it? At least one person told me I should scrap this motor in favor of a newer model with tilt. And actually, the boat is rated for up to 110 hp, so my 115 isn't really that much over, plus I'm sure I'm not getting all 115 hp out of it currently. I'd be very appreciative of any more insight you might be able to offer me!

Thanks very much for your help!

-CatFisher

[CatFisher]

I had one I got rid of this Fall. Took the motor and controls off and towed it to the landfill. I wanted to keep the trailer too. I got to the landfill, went through the scales and towed it to the top of the pit. Backed up to the edge, unstrapped it from the trailer and the operator gently set the loader bucket on it to hold it in place. He had me drive off pulling the trailer out from under the boat. Then back across the scales. It was an 18' glass boat and disposal weight was about 1100#. I had to make sure to get all the oils/fluids out of it before they would take it. Cost $40.

This was a NY landfill though.

Hello, Broadhorizons, and thank you for your prompt reply!

In the event that I have to scrap this boat, I would be very interested in hearing more about where you took your hull, or how I research where to find a similar scrap yard. My boat is located just Southeast of Rochester NY right now, but I would be willing to tow it a reasonable distance. The trailer is in decent shape, registered, and legal.

Thank you very much for your help!

-CatFisher

[rolmops]

It sounds like you might be the right person to rebuild this engine.

You probably do not have to rebuild the engine.If all it needs is starter fluid to get going it is in fine shape for its age.

The first piece of advice I can give you is to stop using starter fluid.You are dealing with a 2 stroke engine and they need oil while running.Starter fluid has none of that.Instead,get a spray bottle (Windex type)and fill it with 50:1 fuel oil mix and use that.

The fact that it starts means that it probably just needs a decarbing, a carburetor cleaning, new plugs and an adjustment of the link&sinc.

If you want the job done by an expert on this type of engine then you should take it to Bill Mayer at Mayers Marina (585-323-1010).He is on the Irondeqoit Bay outlet. If you want to do it yourself then start by doing a compression test.If the numbers are good and less then 10% apart from each other you are in good shape.You must also change all the rubber hoses and seals that get in touch with fuel to the alcohol resistant type.

If you get the factory manual, just do exactly what it tells you to do without variations. It does help to take pictures every step of the way and using separate storage baggies for every piece that you take apart so you don't mix up anything. If you need to pop the flywheel you should ask Bill Mayer to do it for you,he is always glad to help and he makes it look very simple.

good luck.

There is a link to the iBoats "top secret file" for maintaining Johnson /Evinrude engines.

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=299680

[MCF]

If you wanted to get rid of the package as boat, motor, trailer, then spring is the time to do it and it does have some value as a package. The 1970's Sea Rays were a well built boat and one of the first of the deep vee boats. As for the Johnson, the V-4's were built starting in the 1950's and well into the 1980's so parts should be available even though OMC went through hard times in 2001. There are a couple places I know that should have the parts for that. If the package is decent, it is worth doing a little work to upgrade it.

I had an 1982 115 Evinrude, for trolling and use like that it may have used 12 gallons per day so it was not that bad.

[Sean Youngblood]

First thing I would do is price boats and motors on Ebay and craigslist.If you can find something that is going to suit your boating needs that is well in your price range that isn't a bad option.I started out with old 70s boat and motor.They served me very well.Boats and motors from that era were made quit well.If you can do most of the work yourself it is not that costly.Boat motors are like car engines 70s no problem 2000s good luck.The main thing you want to decide weather or not to keep the old boat is the transom.If the transom is solid you can probably work with it,If not I would junk it.It can be very rewarding to work on old boats.You can always put a good kicker motor on it or a good electric trolling motor or both for your reliability factor and gas savings.Working on a old boat is a great way of learning the ins and outs of boat ownership,and you know what you have.Sometimes buying something newer can be more expensive because if your not an electrical genius with a lot of specialty tools you won't be able to work on it.What ever you decide best of luck.

[CatFisher]

Wow! Thanks to everyone for your help and input! Please feel free to keep it coming

To rolmops: Thank you for the extra info, particularly the starter fluid issue, and the number for a decent marina who is willing to work on such an old motor. I already contact one guy who practically laughed at me when I told him the year of my motor. In my younger days, I completely disassembled, cleaned/fixed up, and reassembled an old motorcycle by working through the manual, and then placing all the nuts and bolts for that step in an individual plastic bag, with a note about what step they were from. That worked out great, and in this day and age I can employ a digital camera to really help keep things straight. I think that with an original manual, the help of the members here at LOU, and by letting a real mechanic do the steps I can not because of a lack of skill or equipment, I might be able to rebuild this beast myself. Let' see when the manual gets here, hopefully next week.

To rolmops and anyone else interested: In fact I did some compression tests and decarbing last Summer, and I suspect my motor is going to need a rebuild. Here's a quick rundown on the tests we ran with a little $7 compression gauge:

1st. compression test (cyl/psi): 1) 96 psi 2) 52 psi 3) 105 psi 4) 90 psi

Then, I decarbed it repeatedly using SeaFoam brand decarbing stuff (both the liquid that goes in the gas tank, and the spray). I did this several times over a couple days hoping for the best. I then several more compression tests, which reslted in:

2nd. compression test (cyl/psi): 1) 99 psi 2) 85 psi 3) 100 psi 4) 92 psi

3rd. compression test (cyl/psi): 1) 100 psi 2) 74 psi 3) 105 psi 4) 94 psi

4th. compression test (cyl/psi): 1) 98 psi 2) 75 psi 3) 99 psi 4) 93 psi

I was able to get that second, bad cylinder to come up even a bit more by spraying fogging oil directly in the cyclinder before doing the compression test, but it's still noticeably lower than the rest. I have also determined that the second cylinder is not firing (so I'm running on 3 cylinders), but I have not determined if it's not firing because of low compression, or I believe that particular ignition coil is faulty too. I know I can get a new coil for $20 to $30, and that was going to be one of the first things I wanted to try this Spring.

Thank you too for the link to the iboats forum, I do try to search there for help as well. In fact, that's where I learned what/how to decarb the motor.

Please let me know what you think of my compression numbers and if it's worth trying to overhaul this motor. Could you, or someone else, take a guess as to how much it would cost to rebuild this motor? Thank you so very much for your help, I really appreciate it!

To MCF: Thank you very much for your consideration! I am still trying to decide which way to go, and if I decide to sell it, whether or not to sell it as a package or part it out. I had initially thought I'd do better parting it out, but I will certainly consider your idea of selling the whole package. Thank you again for your input!

To Sean Youngblood: Thank you for your reply! Honestly, ever since we got the little 12' boat last Spring we have been actively watching ads for a bigger boat. Recently, I again have been pouring over the eBay and Craigslist used boats and motors for sale, as well as the classifieds here. Although I am no expert, I definitely have a feel for the market, and what's available. That's why I'm strongly comparing the idea of putting a lot of money into this old boat, or spending that money on something that's a little newer and a little more ready to go for the Spring. Stuff to think about.... Thank you very much for your help with my situation!

To all: So that's basically were I am right now. I have an old boat, which is solid in the transom and body, but need seats and interior frills. I have an outboard with low compression in at least one cylinder that starts hard and has no tilt. And the trailer is decent, but needs lots of rubber rollers and some other work. I did last summer add a new front jack, tongue coupler, wheels, and tires to the trailer just to get it home. That's really the only money I've spent on this package so far, and I figured if I scrap the project I could strip the new stuff and save it for future use.

Just to be clear, I'm a student and working on a tight budget, maybe a couple grand at most. We just want a reliable boat to be used on Keuka primarily, and don't really mind if it's old and a little rough inside, but we want to be careful what we put our money into. I am mostly interested in fishing, but we need a more family oriented boat to take the nieces tubing too.

I would be very grateful for any more insight from the LOU community on how to proceed, especially now that I've posted my compression numbers! Thanks again to all those who have considered my post!!

-CatFisher

[J.D.]

You might want to check this site out for more info....

http://www.marineengine.com/boat-forum/forum.php

[rolmops]

The compression numbers do worry me a bit, but they do not really show enough of a pressure drop to suspect a blown cylinder.I would take the head of and check out if the spark plug hole threads are stripped and whether the cylinder is shiny and clean,because that would point to a bad gasket or maybe a slightly warped head.Then take the head and lay it on a glass plate.This will enable you to see if it is warped or not.when the head is off,you will be able to see if the cylinder walls are scoured and how badly.If just slightly they can be honed(Bill Mayer does that and he has all your replacement parts). I would replace the rings in that case.After all that ,do a new compression test.If you are within specs at this point use it in good health. If not ,you should think about boring out the cylinder and replacing the piston and bearings. With the engine open I would replace all the seals and bearings that you can get to.

Good luck.

[Has Been]

My first boat was a 17' wood boat with a 1970 55 Johnson on it. Motor ran great but wood needed constant upkeep. Motor started to act up while fishing. Went through coils every few trips. Would get it running , get exited about going on the weekend, get out there , & have motor troubles. Then the frustration would set in . Spend the money you are going to put into it & buy somthing newer you can easily get parts for.There is a reason the mechanic chucled at you. LO is a very unforgiving place.

[Time Out]

Your best bet if you decide to scrap the boat is Waste Management in Fairport or Alpco(just down the road) in Macedon. Think its .07 cents per pound residential. If your town has a town cleanup day, they will probably take it there.

[CatFisher]

Hi guys!

Sorry I didn't check back in sooner, but I have been watching the post and I definitely appreciate everyone's input! In particular, thanks again to rolmops, whose invest much of his time on my questions; your advice and help are very much appreciated!

I'm still unsure what I should do, but to be honest I'm leaning toward getting rid of the old boat in favor of something newer and more reliable. I'm weighing the cost of repairs, as well as the time spent doing everything, against putting that money into something that is hopefully closer to ready-to-go, which would make us very happy. I've been pouring over eBay and Craigslist ads for used boats, and it seems to me that I can get a modest boat with a newer, more reliable motor in the plus/minus $1500 range (what I figure it will realistically cost to update the old SeaRay, which needs interior work in addition to the motor woes).

In particular, I have taken notice of Starcraft boats, and a few others like them, which seem to offer a nice blend of a true fishing vessel that can also take the nieces tubing once in a while too. Ideally, our boat would be used 80% or 90% for fishing, but we'd like the option of skiing, tubing, and general boating as well. My old SeaRay is a great looking boat, but clearly more of a pleasure boat that a fishing boat.

So without getting too far off my original post topic, does it seem likely that I could find a $1500 to maybe $2000, 16 or 17 foot boat and trailer that would be reliable and serve our purposes well, or would I likely just be buying junk at that price level? I am a student these days, and my future wife is a horribly underpaid social worker, so we couldn't afford any more than that this year. So I guess my question is, what would you guys do? Fix, buy, or wait until next year?

Thanks again everyone!! I know I'm asking a lot of general questions that may be hard to answer, but we are very much new to boating and really appreciate all the feedback!

Here's hoping Spring comes soon!!!!

-CatFisher

[rolmops]

For that sort of money you can probably get a decent 16 foot Starcraft. If you hang a 50 horse 2 cylinder or sixty 3 cylinder outboard on it you should be able to fish and ski. Do not buy the 69-70 and 71 Johnson/Evinrude engines.They have gear shift systems that are very expensive to repair.The mid seventies to mid eighties engines in that class are very good.

Whatever decision you make,enjoy the boat that you end up with!!

[CatFisher]

Thank you again, rolmops!

I think that once the weather gets warmer I'll be able to try and start the old motor and figure out what I've really got going on. Then I can decide for sure whether to sell it or fix it. But thanks very much for your input, and I'm sure I'll have lots more motor questions come Spring.

-CatFisher