Seneca stocking-proposed

[Second Chance 22]

Natural reproduction of Lake Trout has increased in Seneca to the point where two thirds of the population consists of wild fish, so a reduction in stocking is needed to keep the expanding laker population in line with the forage base. DEC has proposed reducing Lake trout stocking from current levels to about 28,000 yearling equivalents- about a 33% reduction.

They have proposed stocking 10,000 yearling rainbows in Catherine Creek each year for 5 years. According to DEC literature, these would be offspring of wild adult rainbows collected from the Cayuga Inlet fishway and raised in the Bath fish hatchery. Each rainbow would receive an adipose fin clip to differentate them from wild fish. Results of these stockings will be evaluated using spring electrofishing and angler diary reports. To my knowledge, this is the first time in decades that Catherine has received any rainbows.

Cold Brook on Keuka lake is also proposed to recieve 5,000 rainbows annually. These would also be marked with the adipose fin clip.

Current stocking levels of Browns of Seneca will continue at 43,000 fingerlings and 21,600 yearlings.

Another lampricide treatment is planned for Catherine Creek this Summer and the lamprey barrier will be evaluated to see if it is effective.

[lakebound88]

Jeremy, is there any way i can get in on this info and help in anyway shape or form. I am on the Seneca Fishing Diary. But i havent recieved this years yet.

[Second Chance 22]

I received my region 8 diary yesterday. You should see your packet soon. Lot's of info enclosed this year.

No word from region 7 yet.

They hope to have the diary reports on their website before May 1st.

[kremer01]

Based on my trips out with the guys last year and this year so far, it seems to me that there is PLENTY of bait in Seneca....

[kremer01]

and the lamprey population is WAY too high!

[711skwerlz]

havn't received my diary yet either. Good thing i'm not catching many fish yet.

I would def be willing to help out with anything I can. I do know there are some locals that will fight stocking catherine. Due to the pure wild strain of fish. I've had discussions on the creek with some people about it.

I have always wondered how many fish die when spawning. Rainbows return to the lake and can spawn multiple times. But every year I find dead fish. These are mature spawned out (skinny) fish. Mostly females. Anyone have input on this.

[Second Chance 22]

Some of the dead rainbows your finding are probably due to the result of the stress of spawning, however I wouldn't be surprised if most are the result of human activity.

One year there was a story about some "sports" that dynamited a hole in Montour and killed something like 50 or 60 trout- luckily they got caught (the crooks that is, not the fish).

Once while fishing Catherine downstream from Millport I discovered quite a few small ballons floating in the creek- most stuck on snags. I took me a while to figure out what was going on- they were trotlines baited with spawn- about 30 in all. I reported it and helped the warden remove the lines from the creek- they only contained one sucker,but it makes you wonder. I don't think the perps were ever caught...

Others practice the "art" of thumping where they drive the fish from cover in an attempt to net them. Nothing like a good kick to the midsection to kill a rainbow- in about a week or so. Some of the dead bows you see are probably the result of this activity.

I watched a guy take his limit of bows, put them in his car trunk and go right back to fishing. When he returned to his car with his second limit, an ECO was waiting for him. This has a happy ending- he lost his licence for 5 years.

I quit fishing for rainbows in the tribs about 10 years ago. I just couldn't take it any more... seems like everyone out there is determined to destroy the fishery. People treat rainbows the way we should treat lampeys. Sorry for the rant. Thanks for letting me vent.

[floatfisher]

Second chance, could I ask where you get your information? Concerning this supposed stocking in Catherine and the proposed regs changes of a 1 fish limit? Just currious as I can not find anything on either. I am also a concerned fisherman that USED to fish Catherine. As you, I have not fished there in a few years just because of the "fishing" that goes on there. A couple years back a friend of mine and I went around getting signatures for a reduced limit on the streams. I am in no way taking credit for it but I would like to think that we may have helped. I wish that they would do the same for Cayuga tribs!!!

As for the stocking of fish on Catherine, it is jsut too bad that it has to come to this. It is too bad that it may not stay a wild fishery!!! I think, like others, that if they could close the feeder streams like sleepers and others it could do a world of difference. But then again that is another topic.......

Thanks,

Mike

[Second Chance 22]

Each angler that participates in the DEC's angler diary program receives a "report" on each lake that they keep a diary on. In region 8, I keep diaries for Seneca and Canandaigua (way to much work on Keuka). As such, the reports for both lakes contain the info on the proposed changes to the possesion limits and the proposed stocking of rainbows. In addition, we were lucky enough to have the Senior Aquatic Biologist for region 8 give a presentation on the regs changes to our fishing club's annual banquet in February.

They plan on posting the angler diary reports on the DEC website before May 1st.

I don't know how many years ago that you submitted your petitions- it is entirely possible that people you submitted them to are now retired.

More than 35 years of angler diary reports show that the rainbow population has declined markedly and needs help. Similiarly, the catch rate for lakers is such that it suggests an overpopulation of hungry lakers- hence the proposal for an increase in the bag limit for lakers.

Also, it is my understanding that the steelhead/rainbow population on Lake Ontario and its tribs has rebounded since the bag limit was reduced to one.

I strongly encourage everyone to participate in the Angler Diary program.

[david]

How do I get the info to participate in the Angler Diary program ? THANK'S DAVE.

[Second Chance 22]

Those wishing to keep a diary for Region 7 (Cayuga, Owasco, Otisco and Skaneateles Lakes) should call the Region 7 fisheries office at 607 753-3095 ext 213.

Anglers wishing to keep a diary in Region 8 ( Seneca, Keuka, Canandaigua, Hemlock and Canadice) need to call 585 226-2466.

In either case, they will send you everything you need to get started.

The success and quality of the information obtained from the Angler Diary program depends upon angler participation- the more the better. A hearty "THANK YOU" to those of you that are diary keepers.

[floatfisher]

Thanks for the info!!! I am guessing the club you are talking about is the FLTA??? I would love to join the dairy program but I no longer have a boat and even when I did I was not rigged up for trout fishing. I have a friend who has just recently purchased a boat and maybe I can talk to him to see if he is interested. I did not know that the FLTA did so much, I liked what i read in your other post. It may be something I am interested in and I would be all set when I do get another boat!!!

I turned in the petition 2 years ago, I know changes have probably been made but I never eveen heard a thing after I submitted it. Not a big deal but I hope they got it and it was helpfull.

Yes I think the creel limit has had a great\ positive impact on the trib fishing on Ontario. I only hope it has the same impact on the finger tribs!!! Really hoping that they impliment it on the Cyuga streams, in particular the Inlet. It has improved in recent years but with the troubles that system has seen it could use some help also!!!

Thanks again for the info!!!

[lakebound88]

i keep a diary. i like the fact the dec sends back your prior diary each year. its nice to see consistancy

[Gill-T]

Talking to oldtimers, there used to be a ban on using eggs on Naples Creek? The oldtimers talk about thick fish runs of yesteryear. Maybe a ban on eggs should be revisited?

[indian]

I always hear about the "good old days". Sorry but they never happened, I've fished Cathrine and Cold brook, as well as a lot of others, sense the mid 70's. Rainbows have gone in cycles the entire time, some years are good, some are awful. I remember when you couldn't find a native trout in any stream because of the acid rain. Things are much better these days than they were in the late 70's and early 80's by far. All of this one fish creel limit garbage is just more C&R Nazi junk being forced down my throat as far as I'm concerned. If the DEC wants to fix the problem they can start by cutting down the over populated numbers of stunted lakers eating any and every thing in the lake. Same problem as Kueka has, only Kueka is in worse shape.

the rainbows are non-natives and should be treated as such, return the lake to the species that belong there, the native ones.

[Second Chance 22]

Indian, I agree with your statement about rainbows having up and down years. But, these are clearly not the "good old days".

In 1980 Seneca Lake diary cooperators kept 429 rainbows. In 1981 they kept 797.

However, they only kept 11 in 2009 and 18 in 2010. Data regarding Canandaigua angler rainbow catches demonstrate the same pattern. Rainbows absolutely need the proposed regulation changes (and a lot more IMHO) to boost their population.

As to your desire that we should eliminate all of the introduced species that would mean Canandaigua would only have lakers (no browns or rainbows), Kueka would only have lakers ( no landlocks, rainbows, or browns), and Seneca would have lakers and landlocks (though landlocks would have to be maintained by stocking since they are unable to reproduce). I think most of my fellow anglers would think this would be a very boring fishery.

As far as your statement that DEC should cut down on the number of lakers that is exactly what they are trying to do by their proposal to raise the limit on lakers to 5. Actually, the only way that this will happen is if anglers elect to keep more of their laker catch instead of releasing them- most don't keep their limit of 3 as it is.

[indian]

Kueka had historically and arguably I guess, Land Locks. There are after all, many ,many accounts of catching both trout AND salmon in the lake during the 1700 and 1800's. I'm pretty sure they knew the difference then, the same way we do today. As far as Cananduagua is concerned, The five or six times we trolled that lake last summer we absolutely HAMMERED the rainbows, 10 or 15 per visit. There is far from a problem in that lake as far as the rainbow population is concerned.

The next thing is the amount of anglers these days, same as hunting is on the decline, fishing is as well. In the late 80's early 90's opening day of trout season would find cars parked bumper to bumper on most roads bordering inlet streams. Last year I fished a stream I always fish out of Owasco lake, I was the only person there, I caught probably 20 fish before noon, far from bad. We fished for browns out of Salmon creek in Lansing last fall and were all alone the entire time, ten years ago and there would have been numerous other people fishing with us. We caught our limit of browns AND lakers in a few hours. I hear the same things year after year, there are no fish...or there are no deer, same same. The REAL truth is, there are plenty of both, the pressure isn't there anymore, less people going after the object equals less objects being taken. I hope the DEC realizes that once again the vocal MINORITY is trying to dictate the rules for the majority again.

And in closing, all I've read on here is how awesome the fishing out of Watkins has been this late winter/spring. I read about 50+ fish caught in a few hours time........Uh, whats up with that? They ether aren't there or they are, whats the real truth?

And as far as boring fishery or not, when you have to many species competing for finite resources, something is gonna suffer, doesn't take a genius to figure this stuff out TBH.

This is just my opinion.

[Hookedup]

Well Im not big on posting my opinions much on the Forum usually info only. I have spent some time on the Finger Lakes and Catharine creek. The Bows are way down on Seneca and so is the forage. With over 10k in sonar and electronics on the boat its not hard to monitor bait fish levels. The reason for the major salmon catching numbers on Seneca is 90% of the fish are in 1% of the water right now. If you look in the stomach of the salmon they are feeding on last years small saw bellys the mature bait is down 150 to 250. The young bait is up high by the salt plant in the warm discharge, and when the wind blows it gets pushed down to the South West corner of Lake. I can see it on the side imaging and the three inch bait in the fish i catch tell the story. The bait mass is no where near what it was three years ago. Fish are easy to catch when they are hungry and bait numbers are down. If the State dumps 9k salmon in the lake a year and 1/2 make it, it doesn't take long to wipe out a year class of fish. As for the bows I grew up fishing bows in the Tribs. Creeks like Man's and Sleeper's were loaded with fish in the late 80's early 90's then a few groups of guys cleaned them out. I got into a pissing match with three guys on the creek one morning when I was 12 who had over 100 fish on ropes before first light hit April 1st. They had been going all night and were late getting out of the woods. I got a knife held to my throat over that one. Because of guys like this you cant hardly find a fish in these creeks, and what ones you do are going to get kicked out. I now get the pleasure to lock these dirt bags up, and have quite a few who provide me with info on others that are still in the game. From what I see the Bows need some help on Seneca. If you're not going to stock them put the 1 fish limit on them and have some catch and release areas. Maybe I am just the vocal MINORITY. Sean

[OldTex]

Sean...I was born and raised in upstate New York near Cooperstown...When I was a kid Otsego Lake produced the " Otsego Bass " which were VERY good eating...Because of those who dropped the wire bins of Quaker Oats to lure the fish under the boat.....These people sat there and snatch hooked Otsego Bass by the wash tub full.........Result....These fish are extinct today..I still fish Otsego once in the spring for a trial run after getting the boat out of moth balls every spring before I haul her to Cayuga..They have a one fish limit ( each species ) per day now...That started a couple of years ago because of lots of over limit catches by ice fisherman...I love it and the only ones complaining are the ones who created the mess by over limit fishing...Last fall after my place at Cayuga closed for the season...my son and I made one last trip to Cooperstown before winterizing and caught two of the biggest lakers we caught in years...Looks like lower limits have helped that lake.... ....Now if the city would fix that Gawd awful launch

[silver bullets]

Sean, I could'nt agree any more.I also grew up here and can remember the old days of the tribs,and will confirm the same .It pains me to know what goes on on these streams locally.I have whitnessed it my self ,have reported it and the response has always been the same .We'll try to keep an eye out for them. These jerks should be hung IMO. I think of what it will be for my little ones in another 20 years.(won't be)

[rjpeterson72]

Sean, I agree with your post 100%. I have been fishing Catherine Creek and Seneca Lake since 1979. The first year I fished I was 7 years old, fishing with my grandfather, uncle, and father, we all caught several fish, with many fish over 6lbs. My grandfather and uncle talk about the 60's and how plentiful and large the rainbows were, as well as the abundance of sawbellies in the lake. Even in the mid to late 80's the fishing was good; many days catching 4-5 fish per day. I think anyone who has fished the creek for the last 20 years knows that there has been a huge decline in numbers as well as size. Clearly there is a need to reduce the creel limit, close all tribs to catherine, and go after the idiots who are only there to snag, and boot the fish from the water. I have had words with many so called fisherman who use salmon size gear with a pound of weight who contend the fish they have hooked in the body, is really hooked in the mouth. This fishery could return to what it once was, but it will take effort on the part of the state, organizations, and directly by conservation minded fishermen like us, to let the lawless scum know they are not welcome. This year I will be taking my cell phone/camera, and the phone# of ECO Toni D. Let the fun begin.