Tournament Fishing Rant

[fishman08]

With two tournaments already gone this past year I figured now is the time to chime in on an already beaten topic. The Big Jon's and the WHI were NO COMMUNICATION events and i've already had more fun fishing this year than i have the previous two combined. It's amazing the response many different teams had at the WHI about how great it was to finally fish against 71 INDIVIDUAL teams instead of many groups of teams.

It's exciting and also nerve racking at the same time going to wiegh-in not knowing how you stack up against the competition, and 20 times more rewarding finishing in the money knowing you did it all by yourself instead of getting a call from a buddy mid morning to put you on the hot bite.

Although, the pro/ams are my favorite tournaments with the 12 fish limits, i can only imagine how much better they could be if they were a no communication event. Say your out fishing kings and the bite dies, what do you do? Do you go inside for browns and hope they are still biting, do you venture out deep and hope to land on a pod of steelies or do you stick around and hope for a few more kings to bite. Unfortuneately communication takes the guess work out of these decisions sometimes as all it takes is a few phone calls and your on the fish.

I know Tom (atommik) will chime in too but i finally see your full idea brotha. It's time for the pro/am's to grow and take a change for the better. These tournaments will be much closer, the fun and energy will finally be back and the results won't be dependant on who you know rather than what you know.

I know next year i'll be scaling back on the number of tournaments our team does and it's sad to think that the few tourny's we cut will most liekly be the pro/ams.

[rocketman]

Well said, Matt. It certainly levels the playing field for all. Catching is only one part of the puzzle, albeit the most important. The challenge is to firstly find them, figure out what technique to use, what depths, what speed, what baits, what colors ?? As the early bite is usually the best, on game day the right decisions early can make or break your day. That's why pre-fishing is critical. tring to get everything figured out. But as we've all seen how Mother Nature can throw some wicked curves at us. And what worked yesterday might not today. Or the fish moved. To where? As a lot are fishing in unfamiliar waters, the no-com. rule is fair for all, and along with experience & some LUCK, the cream normally rises to the top, especially in a 2 day tourney. In a one day event, I'd rather be lucky than good. The satisfaction of winning, or placing well against most of the best on the lake must be incredible, especially when all must fish by the same rules, on a level field But to be crowned King of the Lake, after 3 or 4 tourneys against the best, PRICELESS. Good luck to all.

PS Maybe no-com. for the pro division ? Seems extremely popular in the KOTL. Times are a changin!!

[Iceman]

We all know that the Pro AM's are set up so that a select few are in the know, they share pertinent info with each other, & this fact makes it real tough for others not in on the inside information. Until they change the open communication rule to no communication, many will be at a great disadvantage, & the tournament has little chance of getting larger.

I'm with you Matt!

[Jeff J]

Can't add anything!!

Very well said Matt.

Should be interesting where this goes.

Jeff

[Fishtails]

You hit the nail on the head bud, and I have backed the no communication from the beginning. I would be shocked if it gets changed under the current committee, but if It ever does it would be a great day indeed, and the Pro Am could regain some of it's lost stature.

The WHI saw some new names in the top ten, as did the St Catherines Kotl. No doubt the no communication played a role in that. I will be interested to see if many of the names we have come used to seeing at the

top reappear in the Pro Am top ten. If so, will it be at least in part due to the

communication?

I agree Matt, that this year has been so much more fun and the no communication has played a big role in that. It has been proven that it can be done, even in a tournament with observers. It's time to set aside personal agendas and vendettas and do the right thing for the majority....No Communication in the pro Ams !!!!

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[spoonfed-1]

I also am against open communication as well.

However, it is a choice as to whether you communicate or not. For the most part I choose NOT TO during the tournament and if I do it's to my friend on the pro side Brian and Marlene on the Tall Tails boat. AND I can say I have never changed my spread OR location because of on the water communication with Brian and his better half Marlene. Brian and I run VERY different programs that work for each of us and I'm sure not going to experiment on Tourament day.

I just fish hard and if I'm in the hole I fish harder.

Some days you just don't get um. Sucks but thats fishing

I could care less how somebody else is doing when I'm out there. In my division or not. All I'm focused on is getting those fish in the box.

Seems to work OK for us.

Not good to see you go Matt but you got to do what you got to do. Good luck in the Tournaments you do fish.

Remember you have a choice. If you don't want to communicate don't answere the phone..... Or dial it.

I definately prefer no communication but far as I'm concerned the proam structure makes for a great Tournament.

It's just another obstacle you got to overcome.

Glen

[Capt Vince Pierleoni]

Very well put Matt. Exactly how I, and all of my Tourny crews feel. Great to see more events going that route but for now all we have is self-policing in the Pro-Ams. Communication from competing team to competing team is bad enough, but not having a way to prevent communication with non-competing boats(some which may be on the water before "go time" is ludicrous.

I was absolutely dumbfounded when "comm" was opened up in the Pro-Ams. It's done nothing but skew results and ruin friendships.

[A-TOM-MIK]

Matt, it was great competing against you, Rod and Team Oh Baby !!! Job well done my friend

I first observed for the Pro/Am's out of Oswego in the later 90's, the Pro/Ams were a rush for me, I learned to respect teams like "Bandito", "The Bad Guys", "Primetime" and my hero Team "Thrillseeker". It baffled me how these teams were so consistent. I was first asked to play a role as "Team member" in 2001 when Tom Burke and Andy Bliss needed a 4th man for Team Cold Steel.

I was consumed, hook line and sinker !!! My blood would boil just thinking about it and I would puke on game day each am, could not control my emotions, even shed a tear on many occasion while on stage, whether finishing 1st or 10th. A now very good friend of mine Mike Lis handed me his 3rd place trophy in July 2005 out of Oswego he said, "Here Tom, you deserve this". It took me a while to understand why he did it, he enjoyed my devotion.

When the Pro/Am's opened up communication it never hit me right away, but after a season or two it started to sink in how something was much different than in the past. I kept it inside as I felt it was only me that felt that way, but upon conversing with fellow fishermen in my line of a great lakes business, I came to know many would feel the same way.

I sort of took it upon myself to start a poll once I gained confidence in the fact I was sitting within a majority. The results were staggering, 90+ % against open communication. The nay-sayers I like to call yes-men have enlightened every "excuse in the book" as to why it "wouldn't work", or "how it can't". Excuses never meant a tiny iota to me, I knew what the competitors wanted, as I felt their passion first hand as one team here and there, then another, and yet another would simply and quietly walk away from the tourney scene. The tourney scene that they not only cherished, but one that many actually "ruled". When I say ruled I mean teams that were top 5, top 3 and event winners in some cases repeatedly.

I could rant forever, but I would agree with a majority, a win means more doing it yourself, than it could ever mean with the heavy net-working skills that many have learned to use. To each is own some will say, and if the brilliant net-workers who have mastered that art wish to trade what most of us feel in a win then who are we (except for a majority) to say otherwise. To me it is watching a minion hone the stone vs. honing it myself. A win "within the rules" is still a win and will always achieve a certain amount of respect, but I am not sure who would actually admit there is no difference.

Our Oswego Pro/Am has taken the most crucial punch in my eyes from unified rules, I watched my hero's walk away quietly while I sat on the bench, wishing it could go back to the way it was, so that someday I could rate my teams skills against those who peaked my interest and created my draw back in the beginning.

As our Team VQ competed in the 2011 Dalhousie KOTL and we watched Yvan's 36 Tiara pick and run from one end of the world to what seemed like the other, it sure did feel good knowing he wasn't being called in on some active Kings from his buddies.

I'll always preach NO COMMUNICATION when talking high dollar events where blood is on the line, and from an avid angler who lives the game and has been fortunate enough to play a part on a winning team from both angles, I can sincerely say it feels differently.

NO COMMUNICATION !!!!!

The Pro/Am's may have to hit rock bottom before they fess up and give something back to those teams who make it a Pro/Am in the first place. If not sooner or later it will only be those teams left who, "Want to fish closed communication, but will fish it anyway" or those teams who are willing to "do what it takes to win within the rules" and master their net-working skills instead of mastering the right choices it takes to win a highly prestigious event or lastly those 1 or 2 or possibly 3 total teams that actually prefer open communication. Prolly what that would resort to would be a couple dozen teams fighting it out dockside, on the water, on the phones or in their text wars with everyone playing each other, lying to their friends, betraying long time partners, steering each other in circles to aid themselves in placements, all while not even needing to attend weigh-ins cause everyone already knows what everyone has.... Sounds fun huh !!! Pretty much a viscous cycle of wrath... LMAO NOT !!

After 2 events that ran pretty darn smooth under "No Communication" so far in 2011, rest assured the same nay-sayers will search out a rebuttal.

"PROOF IN THE PUDDING" WILL HURT THOSE WHO WISH TO MAKE A FEDERAL CASE OUT OF NON-JUSTIFIED PROPHYLACTIC LIABILITIES

Wonder how long the big-man can hold out ??? Is it too late even, was the wait too long ??? Are there new directions on the horizon ???

Tom

[reelthrill]

You can't say enough about the NO COMM rules. Everyone knows it is the way to move forward in competitive tournaments on Lake Ontario. We can bang our heads against the door to the Pro-Am event and sooner or later the people who run the event will open the door. Mules can be stubborn but sooner or later they need to acknowledge where the greener grass grows and cross the road to greener pastures for the better of all those who fish tournaments. I feel at a distinct disadvantage when known boats who work together are stacked on the leader board. Hard enough to fish against the best teams on the lake but when you are the only cowboy against four gun slingers from one camp, the odds become much worse. I had a thrilling time putting together a game plan on tournament day in the WHI last week. WITH JUST THE GUYS IN THE BACK OF THE BOAT. How refreshing not to here a phone ring all day and bouncing texts. Win or lose it's on the shoulders of the guys you bring with you THE WAY FISHING SHOULD BE. Is it that hard to figure out? Good Luck to all teams fishing the Pro-Am, The Niagara PRO-AM has always been my favorte tournamnet to fish but unfortunately I will be unable to. Maybe next year the rules may make it a little extra special.

Good Fishing,

Capt. Tony Sambunjak

http://www.reelthrillcharters.net

[spoonfed-1]

I don't know guys.

Thrillseeker,Cold Steel and Top Gun are consistantly on top of the pro division.

Awful lot of checks being cashed between those three teams.

Is it because they are the best fisherman on the lake (which boils down to consistantly producing and the ability to overcome adverse conditions) or is it because of open communication?

Seems like they were on top BEFORE open communication was allowed.

Personally, I believe it's because they are dam good fishermen.

I'm a strong advocate of Karma, and those guys that are playing the grey area of the rules won't get it done in the end.

Particularly in a two day, four leg event.

That being said it's a shame the rule was forced down the throats of the majority of participants and I agree with alot of whats been said.

I still think the proams are the best test of a fishermens ability.

Much more than a Salmon only, five or six fish, one day event as you need to decide, adapt and box the fish you think will put you on top.

You need to put it together for the first day and keep it together for 2 days straight. Not an easy thing to do with the changing lake conditons

that often occur.

Glen

[r5dogs]

I agree with Matt and Tom.Our team has never been an advocate of open communication! Would like the pro-ams to go to closed communication! It adds to the overall experience not knowing how anyone else is doing till the days done! Bob

[fishman08]

My original post wasn't about complaining that the top teams are only at the top because of communication. Teams like cold steele, thirlseeker, top gun, freespirit, vision quest are extremely good fishing teams and would no doubt be in contention whether there was communication or not. After getting the much needed experience from moving from the am's to the pro's last year i take pride in my team and believe we can compete whether there's communication or not. All i was trying to get at is that the fun and energy of these tournaments have dwindled since I started fishing them and from seeing the energy and excitment back after fishing NO COMMUNICATION events so far this year there is no doubt in my mind that this one simple rule could bring some life back into the series. Can it be enforced, absolutely. Would this rule bring an explosion of teams to the events, I doubt it. I could see some new teams and old teams coming back for sure, unfortuneately with gas prices and the economy i don't forsee any rule or change bringing a big number of teams to any tournament. I would just like to see the enthusiasm back to my beloved pro/am's as they are my favorite series also. As for them being the hardest test as tournaments goes, arguements could go either way and all i know is that i enjoy the difference in each.

Glen,

You are a great fisherman and i know from talking with you and chris at the docks that you do stick to your plan and i commend you for that, and it definitly does work for you. However, from seeing the effects of communication from both the am and pro division, it definitly more noticable in the pro division and from having experienced it thats why i started this post. I usually read the post on the forums and keep my mouth shut as everyone deserves their opinion, however after seeing such a positive response i figured it was time to bring the topic up again, all i'd like to see is the sportmanship and excitment back to where it once was.

On a side note i know like most i'm chomping at the bit to get back out on the lake and fish the niagara pro am. It's going to be a very exciting year no matter what the rules are i just think it's sad that teams like freespirit and vision quest (if rumors are correct) won't be fishing the east as i look forward to competing against top notch fisherman like themselves.

[spoonfed-1]

Thanks for the kind words Matt.

You guys aren't to shabby either. LOL

Only reason I got involved in this topic and stated my opinion is because we often forget there are new guys reading this board. I'm sure there are guys that are thinking about fishing their first tournament.

I would hate to have even one guy not enter a proam and experience all there is to fishing a quality tournament because a post on a message board says they don't stand a chance because of an open communicatiuon rule.

I could see that happening after reading this topic and not knowing any better.

I don't like the rule but I'm proof it ain't going to stop you from winning a tournament.

Fishing the proams is fishing like I never new existed and if your thinking about or wondering about what it would be like to fish one, jump right in and do it.

You won't be sorry.

See you out in Niagara Matt.

Glen

[shadster]

or in their text wars with everyone playing each other, lying to their friends, betraying long time partners, steering each other in circles to aid themselves in placements, all while not even needing to attend weigh-ins cause everyone already knows what everyone has..

As an observer in all four Pro/Am's in 2009 I can attest to all of this statement

[A-TOM-MIK]

It doesnt really matter the original intention of pretty much any post.... When years of experience are on the line and passion draws response, the many truths that are agreed upon will always find themselves the center of attention

I would have to dis-agree with one coment, maybe some choose not to watch as closely as I have and just maybe some do not have the amount of input that I receive on a daily basis over the course of a season, but when you watch a certain event (The Oswego Pro/Am for example) increase in participation for 10 solid years and yes through diverse times, problematic fisheries and certain rule implemantations) and then watch them decrease in interest for another 5 straight years. That would pretty much sum up the non-likelyhood of future team counts "willing to play under that current coordination" and would pretty much opt out that theory. As fas as the usual Pro/Am coordinations' poor economic impact excuses, what do they have to say about the WHI 70+ teams? in its first season no less....... or the "Tightliner" event that gets its expected amount of teams "year after year"

The comment I was refering to:

I could see some new teams and old teams coming back for sure, unfortuneately with gas prices and the economy i don't forsee any rule or change bringing a big number of teams to any tournament. I would just like to see the enthusiasm back to my beloved pro/am's as they are my favorite series also

The WHI proved that theory/opinion wrong 10 times over............ A few simple rule changes and giving the feeling to the players that "their opinion matters", will over-ride economics and gas prices and create an enthusiasm like a Pro/Am hasnt had in many years.

I may agree its too late for a Pro/Am to create that depth of interest as the "many" teams that have left or have lost interest would probaby rather find something new and invest a new interest into an event that they know thier decision and or preference actually matters.

As far as just wanting to see the enthusiasm return I honestly feel a change of current coordination would have to happen to re-gain that trust once again. As far as those teams who are willing to "play a part anyway" and keep competing they are pretty much willing to accept anything dished out to them.

Tom

[spoonfed-1]

Wow.

Does that mean there won't be any teams representing Atomic this year Tom?

Glen

[A-TOM-MIK]

You won't see me there !!

As far as teams representing A-TOM-MIK, if it was up to the Pro/Am I do belive it would be that way, as that was the way it sure seemed before my sponsorship and involvement departure.

I had to read between the lines after repeated lame excuses from the main mule himself and also from yes-man #2 in Oswego, about how teams can no longer use sponsor names in coordination and in conjunction to team names, it was refered to me that the A-TOM-MIK name had become too intimidating and may possibly been warding off future potential sponsorship interest.

Sort of in comparison to one of the many lame excuse that were originally used for the reasons not allowing closed communication, they (ccordination) claimed how can we hope for a future communications sponsor if we can not communicate, well we been communicating for years and I never saw them sponsorship companies? did any of you?

I am sure you will see my business promoted in situations where coordination can not stop it, but if you look on the cover of the 2011 Pro/Am magazine you will see Thrillseeker Vince and his lovely bride wearing A-TOM-MIK visors with my name taken off by the Pro/Am!!! I am sure there are excuses to follow as to why this took place, but one year I spent quite a few bucks outfitting as many as 7 teams who wore my colors with sublimated shirts, spent boo-coo bucks that only made these events look better. Again no nod given in return, and this was after I heard a remark of a winning Pro/Am team wearing non matching apparel up on stage. Absolutely no credit given to me as I shelled out hard earned coin to counter that statement.

Funny how "those" who are willing to let you "help them grow" will not do the same when the shoe is on the other foot.

It will all circulate around, watch and see, there are already numerous events that have been -spawned- from "axes that needed grinding" to the Pro/Am's. I even hear it often from names that once were within involvement of coordination.

Tom

[spoonfed-1]

Good luck to you Tom.

Kinda makes me happy I'm in the am division and I can just mind my own business and FISH.

Sounds like theres a lot more going on than I care to deal with.

Glen

[dreamsteelie]

Great thread guys and well put.

As I have stated in the past and to the powers to be... No communication is the purest form of a win or of doing well. No strings attached, no savior calls, no spolier boats interfering, no friend betrayals, no scoreboard updates all morning, and no games. This is the way it should be!

The last several years, we have watched and saw the results of open comm. Unfortunately, we have been bumped down by other teams due to last minute spoiler calls. My observers have documented as many as 75 calls/texts from some of the players which have all led to their success. My observers witnessed teams calling non-tourney teams that were already fishing as they entered the Lake. These teams would call several charters already set up looking for one on a "bite" then motoring to them. This is NOT how it should be.

We travel to fish these events and have a day or two at best to figure it out. A great disadvantage vs. locals. This local advantage is extended further when they can make 20 calls to different boats and get the best spots and info. This set up does not favor traveling teams at all.

We have opted out of the East ends primarily due to open comm. Its hard enough to figure the fish and water in a short period of time but to then compete against an OPEN NETWORK which involve some of he best guys in each port is getting old. We love closed comm. and usually do better in that environment. We are fishing the west end because the boat will be there anyway and we love to tournament fish. But may stick to closed comm. events in the future, its money better spent as they say.

Maybe the powers to be will listen to their customers in the future? Time will tell but Kevin and Yvan will "get our business" and the thousands of dollars we dump into the tourney fees, fuel, calcuttas etc. on an annual basis with the closed comm. rule.

Captain Pete

Vision Quest

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[Shade]

Pete

[Paul Czarnecki]

Great thread guys and well put.

As I have stated in the past and to the powers to be... No communication is the purest form of a win or of doing well. No strings attached, no savior calls, no spolier boats interfering, no friend betrayals, no scoreboard updates all morning, and no games. This is the way it should be!

The last several years, we have watched and saw the results of open comm. Unfortunately, we have been bumped down by other teams due to last minute spoiler calls. My observers have documented as many as 75 calls/texts from some of the players which have all led to their success. My observers witnessed teams calling non-tourney teams that were already fishing as they entered the Lake. These teams would call several charters already set up looking for one on a "bite" then motoring to them. This is NOT how it should be.

We travel to fish these events and have a day or two at best to figure it out. A great disadvantage vs. locals. This local advantage is extended further when they can make 20 calls to different boats and get the best spots and info. This set up does not favor traveling teams at all.

We have opted out of the East ends primarily due to open comm. Its hard enough to figure the fish and water in a short period of time but to then compete against an OPEN NETWORK which involve some of he best guys in each port is getting old. We love closed comm. and usually do better in that environment. We are fishing the west end because the boat will be there anyway and we love to tournament fish. But may stick to closed comm. events in the future, its money better spent as they say.

Maybe the powers to be will listen to their customers in the future? Time will tell but Kevin and Yvan will "get our business" and the thousands of dollars we dump into the tourney fees, fuel, calcuttas etc. on an annual basis with the closed comm. rule.

Captain Pete

Vision Quest

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

VERY well said Pete. You should put that in an email and send it where it needs to go. Powers that be are listening but sometimes they need help.....to actually hear it.

[Chasin Tail]

I have and always will stand behind being a HUGE supporter of the closed communication rule. I still question the decision to change rule and ask the powers that be to explain to me why they did. I’m starting to think a certain Oswego Co. employee is probably getting tired of seeing me in public, since every time I see him I bring it up. Like this past week when he was sitting down to breakfast and I brought how well the WHI was run and raved about by all of the contestants! Especially the closed communication rule. I’ve always said these events are our tournaments! With out us “they†wouldn’t have tournament. So, why when 90+% of the field says they want closed communication don’t “they†listen?

As for Our team we would love to see closed communication. But as Tom Allen said, we are one of the teams that just love to compete! It doesn’t matter the event, as we all know there are different formats across the lake. 12 fish no cull 2 day, 5 fish cull 2 day, 1 day 6 fish open, 6 fish 1 day closed communication, 1 day 6 fish kings only no comm. Take the WHI for example, I didn’t like the 1 day format with just 6 fish but, we still competed. As for the success of that event was it closed communication or the fact is was a one day 6 fish event(with a huge payout) that led to the incredible turn out? Don’t get me wrong Kevin and crew did an incredible job making that an event, much more than a fishing tournament.

Obviously if some teams decide that they can no longer enter an event they don’t like the rules in, good for them. As for me, I just want to compete! I don’t look at it as I don’t like the rule but, I fish it anyway, it is just a different style event. But, I sure did like the old style.

[Paul Czarnecki]

GREAT post Andy! However, continuing to beat Dave up over it accomplishes nothing as he is but one fourth of the voting body. There is nothing he, as an indvidual, can do---especially since he is just an employee of the County not the Tournament "owner".

I have stayed out of these "rants" lately and for good reason. Like Andy and Glen, I just love to compete and don't care about the format. I might like some better than others but my love for competiton outweighs my "preference" for certain rules.

Here is MY take on the Communication issue and what is "really" at stake here:

--The County's that host ProAms do not want to have a rule that cannot be enforced with any degree of reliability. I'm sure we can all agree that if someone wanted to communicate in a No Comm tournament they very easily could. Using ME as an example so as not to point fingers....in the recent WHI I had exchanged observers with Lord of the Kings----Vito Datomo. We put all our cell phones in the provided bag and went fishing. However, did the observer on my boat know about the cell phone hidden in the cupboard downstairs? My observer was on Vito's boat. When Vito found a pod of kings just 1/2 mile north of me and starting poundng them what kept my observer from discreetly sending me a text? It could have been easily done so what kept me from doing it? Pride and respect from my fellow competitors and MY TEAM! The Rule, in a sense, policed itself.........with regards to me and my team anyway.

That said, can we not agree that if someone WANTS to communicate they will---regardless of the "rule"? Please respond if you think otherwise. As I've shown, an observer could have done NOTHING to stop me from communicating if I chose to do so.

NOW.......to the true "heart" of the matter---as I see it.

If EVERYONE felt the way that Pete, Andy, Rod, Matt, myself and others feel the communication issue wouldn't exist. We could simply AGREE not to communicate and that would be sufficient----because pride and respect would enforce the rule better than an observer ever could. When this issue came up three years ago I proposed a Gentlemen's Agreement for No Communication at the Big Boys Event following the Niagara ProAm. In a field of 10 boats only Five would agree to it! WHY????

When Tom Allen first started his campaign of polls, surveys and internet postings about the communication issue I suggested the idea of a Gentlemen's Agreement to him. Since the counties wanted nothing to do with the rule why don't we take it upon ourselves to put in a SELF IMPOSED no communication rule? Tom's reply, after speaking with his "constituents" was that almost NO ONE supported the idea. WHY????

I'm sure we can all see, and agree, that pride and respect are the ONLY things that keep this rule enforcible----I believe Tom and others have even said this. If that is true WHY won't everyone agree to it? The answer is simple-----WE DON'T TRUST EACH OTHER!!! We lock our vehicles at the marina and put our rods and tackle away every night. Our tournament baits are kept downstairs out of sight of prying eyes. GPS locations of hotspots are kept secret.

The issue isn't about communication or the lack thereof its about TRUST.

I'm proposing again........that we ALL sign a GENTLEMEN'S AGREEMENT for No Communication at the upcoming Niagara ProAm. It can be started right here on LOU and continued at the Captain's meeting. Enforcement should be easy as any infractions will result in an immediate posting of the violator and the details on LOU. The County will have nothing to do with it and can do nothing about it. What do ya say? Do we have enough integrity and trust in each other to make this work?

In closing allow me to express another opinion......

--the tournaments are run by County Employees for the fishermen that compete and for the local businesses that the fishermen support while competing. They bring a TREMENDOUS amount of money into each local community. "Boycotting" a particular tournament or tournament series by not fishing it or not sponsoring it hurts EVERYONE. It hurts the other competitors by lowering the prize payouts. It hurts the community by lost revenues. That hurt extends into the future as it makes it harder to get new sponsors when you have diminishing interest. The only person it does NOT hurt is the County Employee that is the Director. He gets paid regardless!

With today's high speed internet and ultra fast techno everything we ALL live in a world of glass houses. The problem with throwing stones in today's world is that sooner or later you're gonna hit your own house! Think about it boys.

Now let's get this Gentlemen's Agreement for No Communication going so we can all put this to rest and get on with some Tournament Fishing!

See ya next week.

[Shade]

Paul,

Well said. This is what i mean. Come on guys we need to keep going and help what Paul suggested and make it happen. The old saying "Rome was not built in a day" but we need to start somewhere and we need you Captains that we all respect to step up to the plate.

Come on Tom help us out. This is what we want lets put the past in the past and work together without ranting and at least try it. I still think we need to give the Observers the phones but keep them on. If a call come through he can hand it off to the teams captain and the captain can determin if it its an emergency. We all lock our doors at home, banks have cameras, stores have security but a thief will still steel. Lets keep the honest guy honest. I can not imagine going through the embaressment as a sportsmen and gentlemen getting caught cheeting. It worked in the WHI and it can work in the Pro/Am.

Thanks Paul.

Howie

[A-TOM-MIK]

I feel I have come to realize there is more to the No Communication/Open Communication story than meets the eye, as with all events across the lake its the head honchos running each that make up the rules from input and ultimately call the shots or in the Pro/Am's case dictate the rules, I disagree however that it's the County's decision concerning their particular "choice of which rules" cannot be enforced within any degree of reliability as you claim. I believe it to be "accepted" by the County, but rather due to "input", after all why is it no cull when that is not an "enforceable rule" ........... Out of all the events across the lake there have never been concerns from the particular County about any rule structure that I have ever heard of ? Or back when I started the "said Campaign" and before, I sure never recall it being an issue with the county then? LMAO

I've also come to realize a key statement from Andy, the fact that the Pro/Am's are simply a different format, obviously we will never satisfy all, I think over time I have heard every current rule in the book in question, I just happen to agree with the majority so I easily hopped on the communication band wagon. It's sad however that beating the same old horse gets nowhere when talking an overwhelming majority of those who make up the game. Even including practically if not all of past committee members, most of which have stepped away due to the feeling of their opinion meaning nothing.

I will admit all of what you have said to be true Paul, and agree for the most part with you, except I feel we are on a different page with the actual/real reason why the Pro/Am's are now Open Communication. There are many ways to outline negative scenarios as you have done and actions by the Michigan boys have proved yet another way to cheat. It just so happens the head honcho of the Pro/Am's wants communication lines open, pretty simple, so be it.

As far as the Gents agreement I did make a few calls last time we spoke on this issue and after the first 3 Captains I spoke with said the same thing I halted my attempts at that. They all wanted it a rule from the Pro/Am written in stone so that all had no choice to "opt in" or "opt out", there were no questions or worries about anyone I contacted having issues with others following the "set in stone" rules, as we all know we would, as the many past events and even the first 2 this year have proven yet again.

I think I'm about done even worrying about it as I love No Communication as a win means much more and leaves our friends out of the viciousness of the games played within. I guess if the head honcho has no worries about how "people feel about his event" than why should I anymore?

Tom