someone settle this disagreement

[mrcanam450x]

My dad says that there is know possible way for the speed at your downrigger ball to be different than the surface speed. Someone else tell him I'm tired of arguing

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[GAMBLER]

Your father is WRONG. There are underwater and the speed does differ from the surface speed.

[Skippers Trophy 01]

He does not think there are currents under the surface? What is his side of the argument?

[carpedium]

Spray him in the face with a garden hose then act confused. Put on your sarcastic face and explain to him you didn't think he would get wet because you were standing still.

[rolmops]

Your dad is right,and so are you

The ball moves at the exact same speed as the boat,RELATIVE to the surface speed of the boat.However, because of underwater currents your ball will move at a speed different from the boat,RELATIVE to the underwater current that it is in.

[skipper19]

Your dad is right,and so are you

The ball moves at the exact same speed as the boat,RELATIVE to the surface speed of the boat.However, because of underwater currents your ball will move at a speed different from the boat,RELATIVE to the underwater current that it is in.

TA DAAAA...... part of equation missing.

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[muskybob]

14

[Big Dave]

Here Kitty Kitty!!!!

[rail bird]

It all depends on the length of time you are talking about.

Speed = distance travelled/units of time.

If you drive your boat from Rochester to Oswego with your down rigger out, the ball is going to get there the same time you are + or - the length of cable.

If you are making a turn into the wind and there is an underwater current you will have instantanious changes in speed and for that period of time your ball will be faster or slower than the boat. It's just like whipping a water skier around. If you are keeping a straight course your ball eventually has to travel at the same speed as the boat +/- the length of cable. Your ball can not travel at a different speed than the boat forever if the cable is kept at the same length. The longer the cable the more likely your ball will be moving at a different speed than the boat.

[skipper19]

And then.....there is the law of averages at the end of the fishing day....did the ball, boat, and you end up at the dock at the same time...

When the warehouse foreman says I'm late.....I say "no I'm not" , "i arrived 70 feet ahead of the load".....DUH

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[skipper19]

due to some peculiar irregularities the solution can't be translated ....... it's all bedboils

what you are measuring is water speed not boat vs balls

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[traveling man]

Here is an easy way of explaining it to him. There are current an a lake just like a river. If you are fishing on a river and you are trolling up stream you go at a much slower speed to give you lure the desired action. If you turn around and troll down stream you have to troll faster to give the lure the desired action needed to catch fish.

Both of you are right but he is missing the part on sub surface currents.

[mrcanam450x]

Thanks guys

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[skipper19]

your welcome, that was fun !

only don't spray your dad in the face with the water hose I don't think that will translate the solution

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[indian]

Just tell him its not the ball or the boat that is traveling at different speeds....its the water around both. Kind of, nit picking, your ball will actually vary due to resistance for short periods of time, kind of like a pendulum.

HOWEVER....if you do spray Dad in the face with a hose....let me know the time and place...that's good Youtube material right there!

[mudflat]

If your Dad is referring to the speed over ground, as measured by your GPS, then he is correct that they both are basically the same.

If you are referring to the effective speed through the water, as measured by a speed/temp probe, then they can be differrent because the water is also moving and the currents are differrent at the surface than they are at depth.

So you're both correct depending on your perspective but the fish are only looking at the effective speed of your lure through the water because that is their perspective.

[LongLine]

know possible way

There are ways:

1. Regardless of currents, if you making a turn, the inboard ball goes slower than the boat while the outside goes faster than the boat. (arc length difference)

2. If you raise or lower the ball, it has a vertical velocity while the boat doesn't.

3. If you snag a ball, it becomes stationary while the boat is still moving.

4. If you snap a cable, the ball drops to the bottom probably faster than your boat can go at full speed.

Tom B.

(LongLine)

[skipper19]

As I said....peculiar irregularities....14

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[Tim Bromund]

10990

[kliph]

The ball and the boat are moving at the same GPS or ground speed.

What is moving different is the speed of the water.

Father knows best.

[zern]

Ok, I will take a shot at this.

How does your Dad explain upwelling?

Your trolling north in a south wind. Wind speed is 10mph. Surface temp is 70. Your riggers are down 80 feet in 150 feet of water. Temp at 75 feet is 55. Your surface speed is 2.5mph

Now the warm water is pushing north along with you. (The warm water hits the canadian shore and pushes downward) But at 80 feet and below, the colder water is moving south at 1mph to replace the warm water. (at the beach, the temp is 55) So what are you lures doing at 80 feet? I would think they are spinning too fast.

I have noticed this by watching my cables when I change direction.

And what about when your headed south WITH the surface current?

I am not sure where water density comes into play.

Maybe this isn't a good example but best I can think of for under water currents.

Mark

S.S. Buckshot

[Big Dave]

Fish off of 9-mile pt and he will find the currents!!!!!

[traveling man]

Your right about that Big Dave. One day I was fishing off the plant and I had to go about 1mph GPS speed to get a 2.5 reading on my probe.

[Has Been]

So does that mean when your car is going 55 into a 15 MPH wind you are going70 mph? Dad is right , probably as usual. The probe is to decipher underwater currents relative to boat speed on the surface. Both ball & boat are going the same SOG.

[Tim Bromund]

So does that mean when your car is going 55 into a 15 MPH wind you are going70 mph? Dad is right , probably as usual. The probe is to decipher underwater currents relative to boat speed on the surface. Both ball & boat are going the same SOG.

But relative to the medium you are traveling in it absolutely is not the same. Really it depends on how you measure it. If you had an anemometer hooked up to the car it would most certainly show a speed of 70 mph, the sog measurement is utterly and totally irrelevant to the equation.