Pro Am Changes???

[GAMBLER]

The problem with not having clear lightening parameters is it becomes a money issue. A 30 M Trojan having spent xxx #'s in gas getting to the sacred fishing grounds will not want to pull lines and come to port.....esp. if fishing time is lost. But what about one of the crew members who has young kids and a family at home and feels pressured not to say anything to the captain? Make it clear and safe. Call boats to port and give us our lost time back. I am sure every Captain's license course covers lightening safety.......many of us failed to cover the tenant that the captain is RESPONSIBLE for the crews' safety....radar towers be damned. For the record we pulled lines at 10:50 am when the shat hit the fan, so there was lots of time left in the day. The rain continued but the lightening stopped around 12:00????

Only issue with this is teams that run to other ports. If a storm cell goes over the Oak and a team is fishing off the Niagara River with no lightning in sight, Are you going to call that team into port? I agree that the tournament should have some guidelines but it will be hard to put into place when boats travel MILES from port.

[TOP SECRET]

Very good point gambler! Weather is always imo the hardest thing to make rules against... Just take the waves for instance.. The proam allows for 19' boats but doesnt cancel for 6' waves... I think they leave most of the "weather safety" in the hands of the captains... I know we didnt fish the proam for just that reason until we got a bigger boat.

[ Post made via Android ]

[Fishtails]

Chad,

Maybe you should start a different thread if you would like a weather related discussion? Thought this thread was about boundaries? This topic is important and serious, as it could easily be adopted by the Pro Am and then what?

Personally, I don't like the idea anymore than I did the first time I heard it. If the majority felt it would level the field, then I guess I'd learn to accept it but I can't see any way it doesn't stack the odds in favor of the local charter boats, who by the way, are for the most part the voices behind this proposed idea.

And my major problem with cutting out "run time" is the only way for that to be fair to all teams is to switch over to a shotgun start. Otherwise, many boats will be penalized and get a later start if they have further distances to travel out of the harbor. You wiould see a lot more boats speeding to get out to the lake and creating a lot more chaos and danger. To be fair to everyone, you would need to give all boats enough time to get out on the lake, so what are you saving over the current structure...15 min ?

Let's get the no communication reinstated as a Pro Am rule and then we will be on the fast track to having a more level playing field.

[ray koziatek]

well ima for the same thing as we have for the run time Its kinda nice to have one or two minutes if yer spot is close to relax while yer 2nd guessin your setup..... ...

but option 4 is the number one way to play fair ..

Ive talked to a few who have signed and kinda felt the crunch of loosin a few spaces on the board due to others chattin with friends ,and they might not sign in the future,and hey if yer team looses a few thousand bucks volentary "for the cause" then the volenteer thing might loose some momentum ....

Sorry to hijack Paul ..But its a no brainer and now a proven tested ADVANTAGE Some Get FROM Other players or outside Info...sorta like pickin yer cards from a open deck before dealing to everyone else....soone or later the everyone else will be NO ONE....

[Shade]

In my opinion the only way we are going to get to the bottom of the comm discussion is to get some real honest feedback from all on why you are for or against communication. We need to do this with out pionting fingers or sarcasm.

First and foremost everyone needs to understand the proposal. It says you can not communicat during the fishing hours in your division. If you want to call your buddies prior to the start you can do so. If you want to talk to your buddies after the fishing time is over you may do so. I keep hearing there is an advantage to the charters. Of course there is wether you communicate or not, this is there port. I would think that the open comm rule gives them a larger advantage. Who knows the people in their dock more than they do, hell I just moved and there are 3 boats that do not fish tournaments and I can get info from them if I asked. There were 76 teams in the WHI. A tournament that ran for the first time and to this day there has not been one complaint that has hit this site. WHY????? The best part it was one division, no AM division, and no comm. They came from East, West and North of the lake.

Give your honest views on why or why not. We are all adults and we all want the goal, to see tournaments grow and be successful. Fishing is about having fun and making friends with fair competitiveness.

Howie

[TOP SECRET]

Ill put a target on my back... I like open comm... Not just to talk to other fisherman but to be able to talk to friends check the weather on my phone, post reports, etc.

No comm wouldnt make me stop doing the proam... removing separation of pro and ams would.

[ Post made via Android ]

[Fishtails]

Sure you do Nick....you only fish one Pro Am and it's out of your home port....what's not to like about it in your situation.... you know a lot of people in your port and would be very well "informed" with a few phone calls. Open communication does not promote growth. I respect your opinion though bud, and can't say I wouldn't feel the same if I were in your situation.

[Time Out]

Boundries I think we've lost more money in fuel than we've won from running an unusually far distance, but I like to have the option and to take the risk sometimes. Leveling the plaing field across the board will never be able to be accomplished. Those with big wallets can not only buy more gas, but bigger boats, better electronics, equipment, tackle, and sometimes captains. Heck, just look at the vid of that reel Billy V has. Im sure he is going to change lures on his 600 copper a few more than I would Somebody is always going to be disadvantaged, but its up to them to figure out how to overcome it and thrive. I thought that was the American way. Aren't the communists the ones who want everybody equal?

As far as run times, at least in the am, you cant get to far with a 15 min run, so it wont really change anything.

[TOP SECRET]

Sure you do Nick....you only fish one Pro Am and it's out of your home port....what's not to like about it in your situation.... you know a lot of people in your port and would be very well "informed" with a few phone calls. Open communication does not promote growth. I respect your opinion though bud, and can't say I wouldn't feel the same if I were in your situation.

Rod the only person I called the last two years for fishing advice was you... And I didnt listen lol.

[ Post made via Android ]

[ray koziatek]

20 mph = 3 min miles =5 miles ,most con go 25 to 30mph in good conditions. ill take the 15 min and i know some ams top over 30 real easy..and if its bumpy and ya gotta dig up plan "B' closer to port the 15 min will help ya keep the speed a little safer for all on board,,,,,,,,,and the floor a little cleaner

[Billy V]

Part of the beauty in tournament fishing is making the hard decisions - which boat and equipment to buy (speed vs size/stability, etc), whether or not to give up fishing time (and gas money) to make a long run, what to fish for, how and where to fish for that particular species and so on. Limiting the field to specific boundaries that are close to port does nothing but give those guys with larger boats an advantage over those with smaller boats - like Rod mentioned above. It also gives a decided advantage to those who fish that particular port on a regular basis.

As far as I'm concerned, we ARE all playing on the same playing field - the US water of Lake Ontario - run as far as you want and live with that decision. Want to run further than you can now? Buy a faster boat but be prepared to make sacrifices when the weather turns nasty. For my money, I'd prefer to see the Pro-Am committee adopt a closed communication rule and leave the rest of the tournament as it is. We'll be signing the NO COMM sheet again at the East end events regardless of whether or not it puts us at a disadvantage because we feel it's the right thing to do and because we take so much more pride in knowing that we did it all on our own.

For the record, the Pro boats that placed in the top 3 in Orleans County last weekend all fished a lot closer to port than those of us who decided to make the 40 mile run to the Bar did. So much for the "advantage" of a faster boat and running longer distances, huh?

[Tall Tails]

Bill hit this one on the HEAD!! The county boundary issue is completely unenforceable!! It is a Tournament where you live and die by your choices as a captain. Just about every tourny boat at the Oak had the capability to run, it was the captains or team choice as to if they wanted to or not. Heck we were the last ones to the west party and the first ones to leave each day due to boat and fuel constraints...We fished a total of 7.5hrs in that tournament and finished one fish out of the money. Those are the chances you take in these. Go Big or Go Home comes to mind! I applaude those who made the choice and got it done! Lets ge this comm issue taken care of and get back to what made these tournaments GREAT!!!

See everyone in Oswego!

Brian

Team Tall Tails

[dreamsteelie]

Our opinion is to leave as is. If enough want it or are complaining about it, then let them formulate a gentlemans agreement as well. I dont think the tourney committee should make that change.

Running far has a huge risk and expense associated with it and has no guarantee of success as we have witnessed over the years. it adds strategy and excitement to an event.

I say, the guys or the certain port that wants it should formulate an agreement and leave tournament control out of it.

Captain Pete

Vision Quest

[ Post made via Android ]

[Tall Tails]

Not for nothing Pete but I hope we arent turning into an agreement based tournment series.....Its getting a little on the old side....The comm issue is whole different animal but to turn each local grip into an agreement situation..the old quote that comes to mind is "Quit your ****in and get to Fishin"! That is certainly not directed at you Pete but as a general statement to mutiple "agreements at tourneys".

[Yankee Troller]

I come from the BASS world and we never had constraints on how far we could run other than a lock in some instances, which is an enforceable boundary in my opinion. I competed at the state level in a 17' bass boat for a few years, which was one of the smaller ones, and stayed competitive with the rest of the field in their 18-22' bass boats that could go 20-30MPH faster than me and also had a longer range with more fuel. I personally would not want to monitor my GPS to make sure we weren't outside of county lines the whole day. US/Canadian boarder is bad enough in my opinion, but at least there is a line drawn out on your GPS for that.

This argument is not new, and seems to come up every year at the Orleans event because of a few Captains who feel it should be fished inside Orleans County waters. When we won it in 2007 those same Captains tried downplaying our victory at the launch as we were pulling our boat out of the water. They were asking our opinion on county boarders, and how we shouldn't be allowed to go outside of them.

The only argument I can see for this is to keep the money spent at a tourney inside that county. For example, the boats that docked elsewhere in practice, which we were one of them who fished down on Thursday. That was one night of dockage spent outside the county of Orleans. However, we made up for it in fuel a few days later!

The only rule IMHO that needs to be changed is the NO COMM rule, and maybe letting us use more rods

[fishman08]

I think by looking at the poll results that this is pretty much a view by a few and not the majority. I have to ask however, is this complaint coming from local guys? Because this rule wouldn't level the playign field, it helps the local guy out who knows every little bit of structure that holds fish even during crap weather....ie the east winds we had.

[Paul Czarnecki]

It was never really a "complaint" Matt. The whole idea has been around for years. It was toyed with several years ago for the Big Boys event in Olcott where a "Grid System" was proposed. It was just an idea brought up again that I thought would make good discussion here.....and it has and I appreciate everyone's input---at least from those that actually fish the events and want to see them continue and prosper.

[troubles]

Paul,

I for one would like to see them continue. Thats why I think all the rules should be reviewed.If they are really planning a review at the end of this year I think it's an opportunity to make adjustments and It should take place. I would offer input ,either in person, or via e-mail.

[Dandyeyes]

I agree with the inclement weather due to lightning. I also made the decision to pull my lines because I thought it was unsafe also. When tournament control comes on the radio and tells you that it is to be under your descretion Ibagree with the above post. Money being involved makes it much easier to make fhe "wrong" decision. That is one thing I really thought should have happened. I pulled lines thinking that I was making the right decision and I hadnt boxed yet either. Lets not wait til someone gets hurt out there because they are worried about cashing a check or being a real man or women or whatever bs reasoning you can come up with to stay out whilebits thundering and LIGHTNING out there. Think of it from a first time observers point of view. Do you think if they got the u know what scared out of them during the niagra that they are going to be comfortable doing it again.

[ Post made via Android ]

[larry]

I thought what might make it more interesting in terms of strategies used is to add another 10 pts for each species captured. So a 5 lb. rainbow with your catch of kings would actually be worth 15pts. + 10pts for species = 25pts. Under the current format guys live and die with the king bite, great when they are there but when the bites tough or you need one or two fish for your limit, or you're behind and even a good king catch won't do it, you could go for the grand slam, could open some other decisions and strategies. Over all I think it would make better fisherman and take off the blinders. Just a thought, love the Pro-Ams anyway.

[SCREAMER 1]

Well said Yankee Troller! There is only one rule that needs to be looked at, "NO COMMUNICATION". As for the question of boundry rules, just look at the fuel $$$ business that Lake Breeze and Four C's did in 3 days! Good for the economy$$$! There were a lot of boats that made that 40 mile run and stroked! Also agree with Rick about not wanting to worry if we are out of bounds all day! I think the Pro-Am commitee needs a ! Well run tournament! C'mon boys, enough crying about all this Pro-am stuff! Let's fish!!!!!

Dave

[Cannonball Runner]

You really want to level the playing field? How about a one lure one Rod tournament...run all over Hell come back a week later winner take all

Are we ever going to stop ****ing! We all love to fish in these events or we wouldn't do them. I have talked to alot of people that do not fish these any more and the biggest reason everyone is sick of the crap that goes on. Maybe the county should have there rep and all others should be elected. The biggest problem the tournment has is NOT enfourcing the rules it has. This has been a problem over the years. But it's really time to band together before we lose county support and lose the tournaments all together. So lets get something done this off season invite anyone that has fished these in the last 3 years get everything hashed out in live with it. It's not like we are going to be Millionaires if we win.

[Dirty Goose]

AMEN!!! Dave and Ed you guys couldnt have said it better. We all fish in the tournaments because we love fishing. We all should be thankful we have a Pro Am to fish. I know I personally look forward to fishing them every year. It helps me get through the winter know that come spring I see everyone and have a great series of tournaments to fish. All of this ****ing isnt promoting the growth of the Pro AM its downsizing it. Quit your ****ing and lets fish ya bastards!!!

[ray koziatek]

Cannonball ,and cigs187 good to see a couple more rootin for the "no comm" thanks ,its a no brainer ...and the boundries would be a nightmare ,and no we ant gonna retire by winning ....But i would feel better knowing We outfished others on our own ,than win with a phone call.

[Dirty Goose]

Ray, I am for no communication i like the suspense it brings to the tournament. However a phone call can work both ways. Just because you get a call the bite is on in a certain area doesnt mean youre going to catch them. It can work both ways as an advantage or disadvantage. You never know when you might be getting hucklebucked by a fellow competitor!!!