No success while trolling, sadface, help

[howitzer]

I"ve tried a lot of the tips given on these forums, I'm marking bait fish on the fish finder but still no bites. I've tried putting the lines 10 feet behind the ball and 50 plus feet behind the cannonball, still no luck. Hopefully some of the pros here can help me. Here is how I fish on an average day, and if you tell me what I'm doing wrong that woulf be awesome.

Depth: 100-120 feet between oshawa and ajax

Lures: mostly blue,silver,green and yellow. Spindoctor with fly used once.

Time: between 4-7 on most days.

Wind: calm wind, west direction on most nights.

Speed: 2.7-3.5 mph

If you need more info I'm sure I can provide it to you

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[rocketman]

You might want to slow down a bit. Maybe 2.5mph or even slower, depending on which bait you're using. Check the action of your bait beside the boat, as most baits have an optimum speed. You're trying to replicate an injured bait fish, if that helps. Try adjusting your speed while looking at the action of that lure. I like to go as slow as possible, while retaining that injured bait fish look. A temp & speed probe helps to maintain that speed, as your surfice speed, & speed at the ball, quite often are different due to currents. Hope this helps.

[howitzer]

Thanks for the reply, I could try that idea, the slowest my boat will go though is 3-3.5, going into the waves that brings her down to 2.5ish. Maybe the current could be going faster then my indicated speed though ill have to watch the action of the lure tonight.

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[rocketman]

Try a drift sock to slow down. Even trimming your motor up will help slow down a bit, as well as another rigger in the water. I think speed could be your main problem. As most currents on the north shore run east/west, maybe try trolling north/south to try & eliminate it as much as possible.

[howitzer]

we have 2 inboard motors so I'm not sure on how to change anything to do with the engine, its a 36 foot searay, around 36 i think. I'm going to try the north/south idea it sounds like it could help a little bit.

I kept thinking we were too deep but 2 days ago our friend caught 15 fish in 100 feet of water, then next day everyone in the king of the lake tourney said they were around 200 feet of water so I guess fish can be at any depth lol

[TyeeTanic]

You are definitely not too deep - in fact if it is a sunny day I would say you need to be slightly deeper.

You could try changing to a lure that works well at 3 mph - I use a Williams Dartee No 2 and get a lot of bites at 3 mph. Try the blue or green spoons.

Mark

[jekyll]

Troll with 1 motor, put your trim tabs all the way down (nose down). You need a trolling bag available at http://www.amishoutfitters.com/. You probably need 2, 28 inch Beefy Bags. These will be just the ticket. You can call and talk to Tom Kittrick and he will help you select the right size bag for your boat. A good speed test is to zig-zag. If you start taking fish on the inside of the turns, you are going to fast. If they fire on the outside, speed up.

[Big Dave]

Allow for your blowback too! You could be above the fish If your not.

[howitzer]

What do you mean by blowback.

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[Hullbilly]

Blowback is when your downrigger cable and ball are going towards the back or the angle of the cable and water are less then 90 degres. heavier ball helps keep from blowback. Hope that helps ya . Paul

[bluewater]

I think your speed is your problem as well. 2.7 or less is about the good target speed. Having a good temp and speed probe off a rigger weight will be a great help as well so you can tell when to speed up or slow down. I would try a amish outfitter trolling bag or 2 for your boat or the other tips suggested above. Try and put your presentations slightly above the fish. Last year my best speed was 2.3

[Paul Czarnecki]

There is no way a 36 ft. Searay will not be able to get down to 2 - 2 1/2 mph. Are you trolling with both motors? If so you need to shut one off and only troll with one. If you are trolling with one and still can't get below 3.5 you need to tune your motors.

[howitzer]

There is no way a 36 ft. Searay will not be able to get down to 2 - 2 1/2 mph. Are you trolling with both motors? If so you need to shut one off and only troll with one. If you are trolling with one and still can't get below 3.5 you need to tune your motors.

for some strange reason I never thought about using only 1 motor lol I'm going to try that tonight.

I've always set up a dipsy rod with copper line, going to use a white/green spin doctor with a blue and green fly and see how that works out too.

[Paul Czarnecki]

There is no way a 36 ft. Searay will not be able to get down to 2 - 2 1/2 mph. Are you trolling with both motors? If so you need to shut one off and only troll with one. If you are trolling with one and still can't get below 3.5 you need to tune your motors.

for some strange reason I never thought about using only 1 motor lol I'm going to try that tonight.

I've always set up a dipsy rod with copper line, going to use a white/green spin doctor with a blue and green fly and see how that works out too.

Somehow I think that when you switch to trolling on only one motor most of your "problems" will magically disappear..

[bluewater]

Are you running dipsy divers with copper line? If so you will be going way too deep unless you keep it short, (as in amount of line out)

[howitzer]

Are you running dipsy divers with copper line? If so you will be going way too deep unless you keep it short, (as in amount of line out)

dont know why i said always, think i meant to say that somewhere else lol. Yea i just finished setting it up im going to try it tonight or this weekend, not to deep, just see how she works out

[howitzer]

you guys think this set up is alright? its attaching to a dipsy rod with copper line. anything i should remove or add?

[Paul Czarnecki]

Get that ridiculous snubber off of there. If you think you have to have one get a GOOD one from Dreamweaver.

[bluewater]

I have had good luck with that flasher using a white halo fly or mirage fly. I have not had much luck with blue but I am sure others probably have. I would get rid of the snubber and just put on a strong leader from dipsy to flasher 45-50 lb test flouro.

[howitzer]

I don't even know what it is my dad put it on. Do I just replace it with an 3-5 foot line, and should it be a wire line or is 30lbs ok

[bluewater]

For dipsy rods I would go with the length of the rod you are using for the leader I would go at least 40 without snubber. No wire for the leader use flourocarbon or a good mono like ande.

[jekyll]

A picture is worth a 1000 words.

You have the fly skirt on backwards. Flip it around and it will have more bulk.

What kind of fly is that? It has the wrong hook style and it is not snelled. Go to fish doctor's web site for a video clip on how to snell flies. I suggest buying ready-made flies untill you learn a lot more about salmon flies. Big Weenie, Siggs Rigs and A-TOM-MIK are great. I'm an A-TOM-MIK fan myself. Get the Tournement rigs which have both a trebble and a single hook.

The fly skirt should end at the bend of the hook. Add colored beads between the top of the hook and the skirt to get the right distance. Color is your prefference but a green, blue or red bead would be good for that fly.

Use a clear snubber as stated, Opti and Dreamweaver are both great. Both are solid, clear plastic.

Your snubber is attached to the wrong end of the dipsy. It connects to the back end towards the flasher.

Did you say you were having speed control issues (or was that another new guy)? You are using the holes in the SD for higher speeds. At your speed, I suggest a 27 inch leader from the clip on the back of th SD to the tail of the fly. If you get your boat slower, shorten the leader to 22-24 inches and use the other holes in the SD, front and back for more action.

I suggest you use your dipsy on a braid line or stainless steel line, not copper (do you mean you are using copper colored stainless steel which is called camo wire?) The diver does the diving, Copper wire is very thick and may even restrict your depth. I'm not sure how that would effect the dipsy. I do know that the traditional dipsy dive curves will be worthless by changing to 45 lb copper. The depth difference between 30# braid or wire is about 30% over 30# mono. This is due to the drag of the thicker line. Copper is 3 times as thick as mono and woulld have even more drag.

Don't take this wrong but, you have been hitting the forum with a large number of very basic questons on a number of topics. This method of learning doesn't work all that well. There is a substantial knowledge base in the archives and most of your questions can be answered using the search function. Take a day or two and research the data base and you will be able to resolve many of your issues. There are a number of good sources such as At The Oak, Fish Doctor Charters etc. which have great printed and video tutorials.

The best way to learn is to get on a boat with an experienced angler and spend a day watching, asking questions and learning. Do this on several different baots and you willl learn different things. You will get the best headstart this way. Offer to pay for gas and I'm sure you will find several guys willing to take you out for a day and teach you the basics - I would. Learning to catch salmon with regularity is a multi-year process. It doesn't happen over night. I suggest learning one technique at a time. Start with riggers and spend a season learning how to fish them effetively with spoons and flashers/flies. You will learn boat control, wind, currents, using electronics and fish characteristics at the same time as you work with the riggers. Add dipsies the next season or once you master the initial lessons. Save copper and lead core until you master both riggers and dipsies. You will never catch up if you try everything at once. As you've likely noticed by now, Salmon fishing is a highly technical and costly mental illness. Spread the learning curve over several seasons and your wallet and sanity will thank you.

[TyeeTanic]

Hey Bluewater - what would you say we need to take off the dipsey charts if we are using steel or copper line. Should I cut 10 - 20% back off what the chart recommends?

[howitzer]

thats how it came in the box I dont know what you mean by it's on backwards. but thanks for all the tips, im going to follow that guys video tomorrow and make a couple of my own flies. something to do and best way to learn.

[danno]

You can run your fly leader through the fly from the top or bottom, and they can be run either way. Though many of us like it run the other way from the way yours is set up so that the fly material is pulled back over the collar of the fly when being trolled, thus making the fly bigger and provide a bit more attraction.

May seem like just a little thing, but there are many little things in Salmon fishing that make the differance between a skunk and a full box. The other big issue in my opinion is time on the water - not just learning, but time with rods in the water. Many of us pre salmon fishing were used to putting good numbers of fish in the boat. Even great fisherman get skunked occasionally salmon fishing. Put your time in and you will catch. Get good on the little things and you will catch more.

What's the length of your leader between flasher and fly and between flasher and dipsey?