The drops

[chinook266]

I'm new to fishing trout/salmon out on the lake. Thanks to LOTSA and this site, i've picked up this trolling thing pretty quickly. I'm routinely getting 20+ strikes most times out now with slow days being about 8-10. The problem I'm having is I seem to drop alot. I'll have them on for the initial run, get some good head shakes, everything seems fine and then they just seem to fall off. I'd guess on most days this happens 50% of the time, esp on the spin doc/fly combos. I had read not to set the hook and I haven't been. The rigger releases are set almost as tight as they go and I don't use a snubber on the wire divers. I understand that some days thats just how it goes with fishing but just wanted to ask if it's normal for these fish to come unbuttoned or are there some things I may be able to do to increase the hook-up/landing ratio?

[1fish2fish]

Chinook,

The first thing I'd do is invest in a good hook sharpener. Check your hooks often. It only takes a couple of seconds to run the points across your fingernail to check for sharpness.

50% seems excessive. Hopefully, you are keeping constant pressure against the fish at all times. Always keep the pole loaded, even when reeling in line.

As mentioned before in other threads, when fishing wire/dipsies, you don't really need to set the hook. If the hooks are sharp, the fish will hook themselves. I usually give a light initial tug to insure the dipsy has popped.

On the other hand, when fishing mono/downriggers, especially when using sliders, you need to remove the slack in the line as fast as possible (until you feel resistance on the line) before setting the hook. Again, if the hooks are sharp, you don't need a violent hook set.

Jim

[rolmops]

One morning on the Spoonfed I lost 3 fish in a row,so I asked captain Glen what my mistake could be. He told me that brown trout and lakers have a very soft mouth and horsing the fish in or setting the hook hard causes the mouth to tear open. Every hard jerk will make that tear larger and in the end the hole will be so big that the lip will tear open on one side or the hook slip out of the hole. The secret is in patience and steady pressure without rash movements. Kings have a hard mouth and they are much better fit for a hard fight and it is easy to recognize a king when it hits your spoon.

[W.W.IV.]

I all ways off set my treble hooks with a pair of needle nose pliers, about 1\16 of an inch from the shank and then sharpen them. You will still drop a few. I also think putting a few more bead in front of the hooks on the atomic fly's would drop the treble an inch or so back and give a better hook up. I've never had a treble break from off setting it.

[Legacy]

tight releases = solid hook ups. no need to set the hook on a fish of the riggers or a wire diver. Loose drags and sharp hooks will put more fish in the boat for you.

[Fishtails]

Chinook,

There are definitely things you can do, and dropping that many fish on average should not be the norm. It's hard to say what the problem is though without being on your boat because it could be so many things. I have seen many seasoned veterans drop fish that maybe could have been landed....myself included. It happens, and it happens even more during, or just after an east wind.

Drags set correctly are really important. Let the fish tire before trying to turn him, especially with kings. If you feel a lot of head shakes early in the run, in my opinion your drags are probably a bit to tight. Someone mentioned beads between the fly and hook,...very important to have that hook at the bottom of the fly. Could be dull hooks, equipment, tight drags, hoarseing the fish, release tension, or a combination.

Then again, you will hit days that the fish are in a negative mood and bite lite. I find this happens a lot when the wind is out of the east. These days can be frustrating, but even so, if you do everything right you should be far above 50%.

Keep at it...you'll fiigure it out. You are already well on your way. The fine tuning will never end and that's half the fun

[Paul Czarnecki]

All the info thusfar is very good but ill add one other little tidbit that I've noticed more this year than anything.......DOT -

Direction Of Troll means everything this year. As little as a 5 degree change in your compass heading can mean the difference between 5 bites and 2 boated to 10 bites and 8 boated. You will also notice that on rougher days your hookup to land ratio actually improves because a lure moving and jumping erratically causes trout and salmon to focus much more intently on the target resulting in markedly better hookups.

Muscle your kings and baby everyrhing else. Of you're still dropping too many try changing your DOT.

GOOD LUCK!

[ Post made via BlackBerry ]

[chinook266]

Thanks to everyone for the advice. I think I may tighten the dipseys a bit to get a better hook set. Does anyone know any good hook sharpeners? I lost mine in the tackle box I left sitting on the transom as I drove off to the lake. About $500 worth of tackle. Been replacing things slowly and this reminded me my hook sharpener was in there too.

I had been thinking that drag setting may be part of the problem. These linecounter reels are new to me. I'm used to my Shimano Stradic 4000. That drag is smooth as butter. I've been using Daiwa sealine's and accudepth's with the wire divers. I have them on 9'6" heartland diver rods. The drags are set so that I know I'm going over 3 mph, I can hear them starting to click and I know I'm going too fast. But when I have a fish on, I just don't like the feel of the drags. They either feel like they are sticking or if I back off, they aren't tight enough to reel any line in. I've just spooled up a pair of high speed saltist reels with 1000' of wire line. I use them on my riggers and just like the overall feel of these reels more.

Thanks again to everyone for the advice. Gives me more to think about. I'm used to losing these kings. Been fishing the shore of the niagara for them for the past 15 years with 12 lb mono. Definately lost more than landed but as they say, 'the tug is the drug'.

[Gill-T]

If you see underwater footage of Kings striking a flasher/fly you could see how easily it is to loose a fish. I believe the strikevision underwater downrigger camera site has some footage you can watch. Drag tightness with wire or braid divers is crutial to success and changes during the fight. From underwater footage you can see that after a king hits a fly and turns, the hook gets stuck usually in the corner of the mouth. Once the fish feels the hook it's next response is usually universal.....the fish will backpedal while shaking it's head in an attempt the throw the hook. This initial head shaking is denoted by the diver rod violently bouncing up and down and is usually the time the "hit and miss" crap happens. At this point I am pulling the diver rod out of the holder, walking back towards the transom while LOOSENING the drag slightly. During that initial head shake phase I want "give" in the line to keep the fish from tearing out the hooks. Then next response from the fish once it realizes it can't free itself is to RUN. That wonderful, beautiful initial run we all love. Let them go. Let them tire while slowly centering themselves to the rear of the boat away from all other junk lines. I will slowly start to tighten the drag again if I feel I can gain on the fish. When the fish is close to netting you need to be ready to loosen the drag again if you see them turn quick with a tail slap. With the tight connection and no-stretch line, hooks can pull or straighten easily at the end of the battle.

[TyeeTanic]

I'm pretty sure it is because of one or both of the following reasons:

1) Hooks are not sharp enough - take your hooks and run them down your thumb nail, if they do not immediately bite into your nail and dig in then they are not sharp enough. Sharpen the hooks by striking the stone from the turn of the treble down towards the point. You only need to sharpen the last 1/4 inch and it will only take 3 or 4 good strokes to get them razor sharp.

2) You are pulling the fish in way to hard and the hooks are ripping out of their mouths. This is a major problem and if you are not careful it will get you almost all of the time.

[GAMBLER]

One other thing I noticed more this season than others is the amount of foul hooked fish. I have caught a bunch of kings hooked in the top of the head, under then chin and one 25.5 lber in the dorsal fin. Hooks do not stay in some parts of their bodies as good as in the mouth.

[Fishtails]

Interesting point on the dot Paul. That's something to keep in mind.

I know you like to muscle kings. We think a little different on that one. I agree with that theory on fun trips, charter trips, and with any fish you intend to release... but on tournament and derby days, I have seen so many fish swim away trying to horse, or muscle them to the boat. I think I dropped two fish the entire tournament season on actual tournament days, where on pre fish days I lost plenty because I play them harder since our intent is to catch and release.

Sometimes there is just nothing you can do, and sometimes one guy on the boat just grabs the right rods and gets lucky, but it's not luck when one persons landing ratio is very high day after day, while others are having the drops....especially on negative days when the bite is lite.

With kings, if I really want a fish to die, I like to let them burn up a lot of their energy on that first run. Let them run in a strait line away from you. Adjust the drag tight enough so they have to burn energy to pull line, but not so tight that the rod pulses

and throbs violently. It's important to make them work for that line though. Get them tired and then you can tighten the drag a couple clicks to turn them and finish them off. From that point ...work them in to the boat at the fastest pace the fish will allow without getting the fish excited.

A calm fish is a dead fish...keep the fish as relaxed as you can and in a strait line and most will die. It might take an extra 5 minutes...maybe 10 if it's a hog, but placing it in the white coffin is where it's at and as long as you are still at trolling speed that excitement will often pull more into the spread and many times you will double up, so keep your speed fast enough to keep your lures working.

[Fishtails]

Btw, you know how I learned to fight kings? From taking note over the years on my boat that the adults I fish with loose fish after fish, yet the children loose almost none I have a lot of kids on my boat....they rarely loose a fish until an adult gets involved....myself included!

Think about it

[Iceman]

Slow the boat down when you hook up on wire. This will help a lot.

[traveling man]

chinook, a lot of good advice above. if you are not happy with your drags send your reels to tuna reel trouble over the winter. smooth drags are very important.