Avid fly fisherman looking for input on a trolling set up

[nigglesworth]

HI

I am hopping someone can help point me in the right direction as lake trolling (like I have seen on the water in Lake Ontario) is new to me. I have a sailboat and am doing a 2-3 week trip from Toronto to the Thousand islands and back. I am wondering if I can set a line a rod off the back of my boat to troll while I am putting in those long hours on the water. I have a 8wt drift rod that I have used for steelhead and am wondering if I can use that with some sort of diving lures. Not keen on investing in a down rigger so please feel free to tell me its hopeless if this is essential.

Also, if there are any tips on fly fishing locations enroute, I am all ears.

Thanks!

Nigel

[TyeeTanic]

Well, there are a few basics you cannot stray from. I am a converted river fisherman (float) as well, so I know what is done there vs. the open water - and it is very much different.

First and foremost is you need to be in the right depth of water, travelling at the right speed. 100 - 200 feet of water is generally good, and you need to be travelling between 2.5 - 3.3 mph. If you cannot keep your speed consistently in this range, forget it, you won't have too much luck. You are better off anchoring somewhere and jigging.

If you can do this speed, then you will need at least a medium action 8 foot rod, and recommended is a heavy action 8.5 foot rod, but for limited fishing it's not a must.

Your drift rod will snap in half if you use it trolling - trust me.

You will need to fit the rod with at least 20 lb mono line or higher (I use 30 lb test) and have at least 800 - 1000 ft of it. Forget about the 6 lb test we use in the rivers - will snap in a second. You will need to know exactly how many feet of line you have out (for reason spelled out below), which defines the type of reel you can use - you obviously want a trolling reel for this reason, and because it is heavy duty.

If you don't have this stuff then your best bet is to look out for some good combos - I got a Rapala Magnum II Medium to Heavy Action Trolling Rod and Reel with built in counter and mono line on it (ready to fish) for $80 at Canadian Tire. You can't get it much cheaper than this and it is pretty good stuff.

Lastly is the tackle - you can do something simple or a little more complicated but more efficient. There are two components to your tackle - (a) something to get your line down deep enough and (b) the bait you use.

For point (a) - A more complicated setup involves using something called a dipsey diver - this gets your line down deep (up to 100 feet). Basically the diver comes with a chart which tells you how much line you need to let out to get it a certain depth (which is why you need the line counter on the reel). I would go for a #1 size dipsey diver, it is the most versatile.

If you want the simpler set up for point (a) - then get a drop (bass weight) around 3, 4 or 5 oz's. Put a 1/4" ring onto it and connect it to the snap swivel on the end of your main mono line. You can then join the lead line and bait to the same 1/4" ring. Trolling at the desired speeds - every 10 feet of line out gets you around 2 feet down (20%).

For point(b) - I would just use lures. Good ones to get are 4" size and Northern King - Black/Purple &Water Melon, Williams - Blue/Silver, or Nasty Boy - Blue Silver. Put a 10' leader of 30lb floro carbon on this.

Something more complicated would be an attractor/fly combo. Here you attach an attractor like a spin doctor to the dipsey using a 6 to 10 foot floro lead, and then a fly (made using tinsel) about 20" away from the attractor on a floro lead. Note, most flies come with the leader already installed. You want colors like bloody death or green glow.

So to recap - I would recommend the simplest set up:

- Rapala Magnum II Rod and Reel combo, with built in line counter and mono line - $80 at Canadian Tire

- 40lb test stainless steel ball bearing snap swivels, Size 3 - (need 3 per rod for the simple setup) - $5 per pack, get 2

- Couple of 3 oz and 5 oz weights - $3 each, get 3.

- Some 1/4" stainless rings to attach the weights to the main line - $3 per pack

- 25 meters of 30 lb test florocarbon line - $15 for a roll

- 4" Northern King - Purple/Black lure, Watermelon and Nasty Boy Blue/Silver - $8 each, get 3 or 4

- plastic case to hold spare stuff - $10

- option is some bait scent good for trout or salmon - usually hering works well. $5 for a bottle

- ALL In - $165 all in for a decent, but basic setup, per rod.

See image below for an illustration of how to connect everything up.

[TyeeTanic]

Oh, and one last but important thing - you want to set your lure 30 - 40 feet deep. So that means you need 150 to 200 feet of line out to get there on a 5 oz weight.

[ReelPower]

I assume you meant 8 weight fly rod, not drift rod. Buy a sinking shooting head line, preferably a Teeny 400 grain. Make sure that you have plenty of good backing on the reel. You can then tie on a looooooong leader to a small size j plug in silver/chartreuse, preferrably jointed. Let out all the flyline and 40 foot of backing or so. Then securely attach the rod to the boat somehow. Next, proceed as slowly as conditions will allow. Bring a long handled net.

You will have difficulty trolling at the right speed (2-3 m.p.h.) with the sailboat. The j plug is very speed forgiving, up to 4 1/2 mph or so. Other lures might not do well, but heavy bodied spoons would also be an option.

The 400 grain sinking shooting head will get you down about 20 foot or so. At least you would have a chance to run into some steelies, coho or aggressive high riding kings. You could even fish a fly off the sinking head if you wanted to, but a j plug will be more effective.

A better option is to ditch the flyrod and buy a stout trolling rod and reel. Fish a diver like a pink lady or jet diver (wil get down about 40 foot) and a heavy spoon or j plug about 5 feet behind it. Try to rig so that your sails are barely taking wind, thus keeping the troll as slow as possible.

Good luck. I've trolled off a sailboat. It sucks. I know some MI sailers who caught plenty of salmon off the blowboats while crossing the lake during the glory days of MI salmon fishing. They fished pink lady divers with spoons at 5-7 m.p.h.

[adam2000]

The rod will not snap. We used to use noodle rods off downriggers all the time when I was younger.

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[TyeeTanic]

Adam - maybe we're not talking about the same thing here. Are we talking about IM6 to IM8 river fishing rods, that are highly flexible - that we use 6 lb test on???

If so the thrashing of a king will definitely be too much force for that rod.

[Paul Czarnecki]

Wow Mark you've learned a lot in the few short weeks you've been on this forum and fishing Lake Ontario. Wasn't it just a few weeks ago you were trying to figure out how to catch your first salmon?

To the OP....use whatever tackle you have and have fun. What have you got to lose? A plug or two?

FWIW......there are captains in Michigan that specialize in ultra light tackle charters running noodle rods and 6# test. I've done it many times myself and its great fun.

Good luck!

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[adam2000]

Adam - maybe we're not talking about the same thing here. Are we talking about IM6 to IM8 river fishing rods, that are highly flexible - that we use 6 lb test on???

If so the thrashing of a king will definitely be too much force for that rod.

Yup we are 10'6 noodle rods. Same thing you use on the river. Me and my buddys caught plenty of kings on them. Use to run them off Riggers with the dodger squid combo. Back in the 90's cause all our money went to downriggers. Its not the preferred technique but it worked back then for us. We never broke a rod. I've broke 2 rods in my life. One in a door and another that caught 1000's of kings. That was a 10 ft cabelas fish eagle that my dad gave me in 89 it lasted til 2002

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[adam2000]

Mark a mh dipsy rod would break before one of those noodle rods. Soft action and length absorb all the shock. As long as you don't go over what the rod is rated for with line you'll be fine. Kings thrash just as much in the river as they do in the lake

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[BAZOOKAJOE]

One of my buddies keeps telling me he wants to try running a CP on a downrigger.

[BAZOOKAJOE]

I would buy a dipsey diver and run that noodle rod out 250 with a mag NBK spoon and see what happens. You never know!

[adam2000]

Joe he have to hold the spool the whole time. Lol

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[BAZOOKAJOE]

I've told him several times it won't work without a drag. He just keeps dreaming of fighting a screamer king on a pin in deep water. Does sound fun tho!

[TyeeTanic]

Hey Paul.

I've put in some major hours fishing and remember all those questions??? Well, this forum's help really got me to zero in on the right setup (I hope you weren't being sarcastic about learning so much in the last 6 weeks ).

Adam - I would be scared crapless to use my 14 foot Raven in the lake. I know it flexes better than the girls at the Runway Strip club, but it must take forever to bring in a king with a 6 lb line.

I find the trout are stronger in the streams and the salmon are stronger in the lake. Salmon seem tired in the river after a burst up the shallows - so I find it more manageable to catch them on my float rod in the river - but on the lake - I believe you, but I wouldn't do it - it's hard enough to reel in a screamer on the 8 ft rigger rods on 30 lb test.

Like I said I believe you - but not sure as a beginner on the lake whether it will lead to succesful fishing.

[dewey123]

id set up with a dipsy diver maybe one of them little guys with a natural born killer ( like bazooka joe said) them black and green spoons have been the best for me. as for getting the line out it doesnt have to be exact id shoot for 250 and run that if no bits after a while let some more line out and adjust it. as for super heavy line id go at least 15 if you dont mind stopping the boat to fight the fish and of course with that lighter line dont horse in a big one let it do its thing. let us know how you do it seems like a really cool trip and what the heck if you can get a few fish to bite even better

[adam2000]

Well I was 19 andhad no money. We spent it all on downriggers and lived in oswego. Trust me we got plenty of looks at the launch. Like look at these stupid kids. But we did what our budget allowed. They were 100 dollar noodle rods not a 14 ft raven. I wouldn't bring that out there either. I wouldn't even take that out of th box ifi had one. My pin rod is a aventa. 80 bucks.

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[muskybob]

Good luck on your adventure. I can't wait to hear your report on how things went. Hope ya tie into a real nice screamer for your first one off a blow boat. Hey, maybe we'll convert the rest of 'em to give it a try.

[BAZOOKAJOE]

Def don't want 6 lbs test. Who runs that...even in the creeks? I go at least 15 main and 10 tippet. I've been absolutely schooled by large/fresh kings on my 10' 6" noodle rod with a stradic running floats/beads early in the fall. Couldn't even turn them! They headed right back to the lake!!

[jekyll]

Mr. Nigglesworth (I chuckle every time I read that name, I like it):

I'm currious as to the reel on on your rod; does it lock?

Getting deep can be costly by buying riggers, dispies, lead core, copper or a thumper. Luckily, you can find steelhead, coho and walleye up higher with some regularity. Even a Zebco reel can be used if that is what you have.

Without adding a bunch of equipment, you might think about using snap wieghts and appropriate lures. Go to a good tackle shop and ask them to help you with selection. Ensure you mention your normal cruising speed so they can match lure styles to your speed. Different lure styles and wieghts have specific speed ranges. Knowing your cruising speed will help the proprieter.

As others have said, good luck and please come back and tell us how you make out.

[TyeeTanic]

Hey Bazooka. I caught this Hawg on 6 lb test in the river last October. Was 35 lbs. Took around 25 mins.

So, it is possible ...

[BAZOOKAJOE]

Nice fish! You the man!!