Hydrofracking...

[rolmops]

What more do folks need other than Ft Lupton Colorado? Check it out......... One aquifer/water shed they are looking at provides NYC water. Mess that up and the whole USA is in a bind. If they figure out that replacing rusty drilling pipes is better than a host of chemicals in the frac water then maybe folks will get behind the process more readily. And....why did Cheney exempt the process from most EPA Clean Water regs???

Why do you think that this exemption is called the Haliburton Loophole??

[Second Chance 22]

Lots of emotions and opinions listed here, not many facts.

Fact: the NYSDEC proposed water and air quality rules are head and shoulders stricter than anything USEPA has thought of. (they are probably the stricktest in the entire world). If anyone doubts this, I challenge them to read the entire SGEIS (I have).

Fact: Gov. Cuomo ordered DEC commissioner Martens to investigate the problems related to drilling in PA this summer and the sort of problems encountered in PA are addressed in the SGEIS.

Fact: the gas boom in PA is already providing economic boost to the Southern Tier. One of my sons has a job in Horseheads with an drilling support company (sorry Indian, he doesn't drink and he has all of his teeth). He works 80+hours per week and is making big bucks.

The price of natural gas is not going to go up drastically anytime soon. Current prices are about 30% of what they were 10 years ago. The current glut of natural gas is acutally suppressing drilling activity. America has enought gas locked in its shale to last 100 years- simple supply and demand.

No doubt in my mind that it can be done safely. Our family has leased its farm since 1985. Five gas wells (trenton black river) have been drilled on our neighbors property. Deer run accross the drill pad and I still catch brookies from the nearby creek.

Our marcellus shale is only 80ft. thick and I am sure I will never make a penny from it.

[G-Daddy]

One of the largest real estate operations in the Marcellus Shale region is Range Resources. You can see completed well reports including additives in the fracking water here:

http://www.rangeresources.com/getdoc/50 ... ports.aspx

[cavemansback]

I read all the posts and understand everyone has their own opinion. Here's mine I own a decent size piece of land in the heart of the NY shale area. I stand to make some money when and if they drill here. I should be one of those folks yelling drill baby drill. Yet I'm also a sportsmen who owns the property for my family to enjoy safely forever. Right now for every story I read about the big cash boom taking place in PA there's another story of these companies using faulty equipment or spilling toxic chemicals etc. I'd rather wait and let all the mistakes be made in PA and when they learn from their mistakes and correct the problems I'll change my tune. Aim true and tight lines.

[perchin]

Is the trade off our lakes and streams when they dump the fluid into ponds and city sewer systems so they can leach off untreated ill bet that really helps our eco balance. So why dont you just dump a quart of mercury into your well and let me know how it taste.

[indian]

Fact: the gas boom in PA is already providing economic boost to the Southern Tier. One of my sons has a job in Horseheads with an drilling support company (sorry Indian, he doesn't drink and he has all of his teeth). He works 80+hours per week and is making big bucks.

Wounder why him and every other poor kid they've suckered is working 80+ hrs a week.....hell they even advert their jobs as 80+ hrs a week. I'll tell ya why....its cheaper to pay for the accidents and health problems from over work for 100 people, than it is to pay an honest weeks work(40-50 hrs) for 200 people. There is a reason why a standered work week is set at 40 hrs a week. You sir are disillusion if you honestly think these cheap as hell, slick talking, fat cat, RICH, HALIBURTON gas well people care anything about the environment, you, what happens ten years down the line, or anything besides a fast and easy buck. And that IS A FACT.

[Second Chance 22]

And you are a Number 1 expert at jumping to conclusions!

Nobody said he works for Haliburton (he doesn't).

This "kid" is in his late thirties and has seven mouths to feed.

He worked the same kind of hours when he was building helicopters.

[panfisher]

Western central NY, south of Rochester, is at the middle of a "continental divide". Headwaters of all of the major freshwater flowages into the Atlantic Ocean originate here. Fresh waters from all of the finger lakes pour out of the ground north into lakes Erie and Ontario into the St. Lawrence; numerous streams and rivers follow suit. The same for headwaters of the Chesapeake Bay, Delaware River, Mississippi River via the Allegheny River and Hudson River via the Erie Canal and Mohawk River.... you know all of this. If I had a "Sofie's choice" to make about choosing unappealing looking wind farms, or crazily polluted ground, groundwater, ruined countryside and small town atmosphere (by all of the trucking and supporting development) and the thought of a peaceful, lazy drive through the severely tainted out-of-doors scene, I would choose the former! DO NOT turn our state, with all of it's already blessed water resources, (Free and Clean), into a giant petrochemical farm. Who would want to, and who could (except for the poor and those that served them) live here anymore??? Proceeds, jobs and corporate tax bases? To enrich what? Who? When? It would all be too late to be of any good after all the clean water and land are gone! I most definitely would rather be poor, clean, and healthy, with clean water and land to wash in, drink from and walk on, than well-off, sickened, and unwilling to go outside or even wash or drink the water. You don't appreciate what you already have until it's gone. Our state is already rich with the most necessary and precious gift of all...Lots and lots of clean, fresh water!!!!!!

[Has Been]

I wonder what the take home pay for an 80 hr work week is down there ? I have put in a few of those myself, and have reaped the benifits from it. And no one " suckered " me into it. From what I see being taught to our young people the last few years,Nice to know there are still a few who are willing to bust their butts & sacrifice for families & selves for a good life. Got to get back to Earning a good life,not being handed one.

Any harvesting of energy comes with some sort of impact on the enviroment & our lives, and somtimes it ain't pretty. Thats the chance you have to take if we want big homes, vehicles ,boats,toys , etc. that demand the unlimited energy so we can live the good lives we have been acustom to living.

[Tall Tails]

I have had several customers with properties in that area that now have arsnic in there drinking water. And have to truck water into drink and will never be reimbursed. Very sad! But hey I work in the environmental field and will make a killing cleaning up the mess 20 yrs from now. Onondaga lake ring a bell folks?

[ Post made via Android ]

[frm03064]

Im pretty neutral on this so far... Both sides present good evidence against eachother... My feeling is that if they could do this cleanly and with minimal environmental impact, it would do alot of good getting people back to work and providing an in-country energy source, thereby reducing dependance on foreign product... However, like any business, i feel like they are going to cut corners to save money as much as they can. and that leads to accidents and equipment failures. Those lead to leaks and contamination... I doubt the fracking industry intentionally wants to poison the environment, and in truth, they probably will try hard not to. But accidents will occur as with any major industrial effort... and thats where the environment will suffer...

To be honest i think fracking is going to be a short fad... I think the supply of natural gas is quickly exceding the demand for it... And more and more research is showing how alternative green fuel sources maybe arent as economical and environmentally friendly as it was thought they were. With the price of regular oil continuing to drop, id suspect that the demand will even reduce further.

[tcon]

When I started this thread I really just wanted to get an idea where everyone stood on the whole thing. After reading everyones opinions and views I tend to agree with you FRM, It's exciting to think about the jobs...what it could do for the economy and what it could do to have more of a source of energy "in house" so to speak, but on the other hand it's very nerving to think of what happens when things do go wrong...tainted water...contaminated soil and I can't imagine what it would do to a lake. I agree if done right with the proper regulations it could be a huge asset.

Tom

[panfisher]

tcon... I'm glad and appreciative of thread you posted. I guess it's how I feel about the exchange of free, beautiful and clean freshwater resources, forever gifted to us, for natural gas, also forever gifted to us. It's the using of all of the toxicity, and the disruption of the living atmosphere currently in New York State, to "resource this resource" that bothers me. We, throughout the entire state, are known and envied worldwide for the high quality of our freshwater supplies we have available to us. The high value of this H2o is understood when you don't have it. Look at any of those "survival" shows (Bear, Les,etc.). Remember, about 3 or 4 years ago, how the states of Georgia and South Carolina were about to go to war over bordering water rights claims, because of the long term drought then? It was on the national news scene. Of all of the water on our "water world," less than 3% of it is fresh... and we humans cannot drink saltwater. Our bodies are at least 65% water. To me, to potentially trade or dis avail ourselves of this one long term critical resource, for another, quickly depleted, and not nearly so critical resource does not equal up. As the surrounding interstate region jumps on the gas drilling bandwagon, our precious, free, sweet water supplies, without which our lives would not be sustainable, (not to mention fun and appealing) ROCKETS UP in value! For the "drill baby drillers" out there, please consider the value of what we already have to offer, and how to best manage it for the long term, hundreds of years, instead of "me, too-ing it" (like so many pizza parlors), for a short, perhaps single 15 or 25 year generation. After the gas is gone, and the free freshwater (not to mention ground) is all wasted, tainted and otherwise unavailable to us, how are your grandchildren, children, or probably even you, going to feel about hanging around in, much less living, in New York State...

[frm03064]

im starting to be moved towards the anti-fracking side of the argument... after looking at this objectively... i just dont feel like there is such a high demand for natural gas... and lack of other sources... that it is absolutely necessary or even a good idea from an economic standpoint to start fracking here... Short term it might create a few jobs... long term... probably not going to change the local economy in a big way or effect the cost of gas to the extent that people hope...

Like i said before, with the price of regular gas comming down significantly, and the discovery of other sources of natural gas, as well as studies that are suggesting that alternative-fuel vehicles arent as safe and economical as once thought- i just dont see the demand for this, or the need for it, especially considering the risk to other natural resources- be it intentional or accidental, anytime you have major industry theres going to be contamination on some scale.

[Tall Tails]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-12-0 ... -says.html

[GAMBLER]

I have had several customers with properties in that area that now have arsnic in there drinking water. And have to truck water into drink and will never be reimbursed. Very sad! But hey I work in the environmental field and will make a killing cleaning up the mess 20 yrs from now. Onondaga lake ring a bell folks?

[ Post made via Android ]

Was there water tested before the fracking? Arsnic is naturally in the ground water in some areas of the United States.

[panfisher]

I honestly cannot understand or see why or how anybody who likes to engage in fishing, hunting, trapping, eating food, drinking water, walking around outside, breathing, any kind whatsoever of outdoor recreation or livelihood, being part of and responsible for a family, including raising children, supporting neighbors and community,retired, just getting started, struggling with making ends meet, wealthy and not worried at all about money, in prison, free as a bird, disabled, mentally or emotionally challenged , totally o.k., pet lover, pet hater, dreamer of pot of gold, secure as is at whatever financial state, or just plain ALIVE, would want anything to do with having hydrofracking happening anywhere at all on the planet, much less in their own backyard. I mean, really... Toxic chemicals pumped at high pressure into relatively soft (compared to other) rock just underneath your feet and water supply? Does that really sound like a good way to earn a buck? Boy, I guess blowing off nuclear weapons around the neighborhood should be a fun ride at the amusement park....I say this not to "dis" anybody else's opinion or viewpoint on the matter, but, why would anyone conceivably want to reside in or near or even within a hundred miles of such stuff? Oh really? Make plenty of money and move somewhere else and leave the frak behind for some other people to deal with....?

[Splitshot115]

Panfisher,

" I mean, really... Toxic chemicals pumped at high pressure into relatively soft (compared to other) rock just underneath your feet and water supply"

You should do a little more research. Different methods of fracking and shafts

are concrete and piped well below the aquafier.

[LongLine]

Seems to me that a couple months ago we felt a minor earthquake that was way south of here & the geologists said we felt it because the bed rock was so hard. (????) BTW Lake Ontario is a "glacial basin" & receives the great majority of its water from surface runoff.

Tom B.

(LongLine)

[rolmops]

Seems to me that a couple months ago we felt a minor earthquake that was way south of here & the geologists said we felt it because the bed rock was so hard. (????) BTW Lake Ontario is a "glacial basin" & receives the great majority of its water from surface runoff.

Tom B.

(LongLine)

This was not the only earthquake in the neighborhood.

There was another one that has been proven to be caused by tests concerning the storage of liquid natural gas (LNG) near Watkins glen. Now did you ever wonder why that was not much in the news and why you no longer hear anything about LNG storage near the Finger Lakes?

[ifishy]

I dont care how its pipped in or what the shafts are made of they are pumping toxic chemicals into the earth. WTF how can anyone think this is okay and by the by they have resivours for the fluid because the toxic chemicals spend time at the surface which answers your runoff concerns

[High Bidder]

I find it amazing that some people ignore or rather choose to ignore the "toxic" chemicals they use all the time. As fisherman, we power our boats with toxic chemicals which are directly exhausted into the lake. We bottom paint our boats with toxic chemicals which are designed to wear off into the lake. We lose tons of toxic lead items in the lake every year. We lose tons of plastic lures every year. But not many of us would like to go back to a rowboat with just a hook and worms. Mostly the real concern with gas wells is that some people are going to make money on the natural gas wells and those that chose not to buy land are going to get nothing. If the government figures out how to take most of the money from the wells the concern about fracking will disapear.

High Bidder

[walleyemagic]

Im really sick and tired of all the anti gas people that go by myths and what the anti groups say. There are NO Facts that this is harmfull.They line the well with 3- 4 seperate casings of concrete encasing the pipe way below the aquafer. Methane is naturally in the shale. I know people that can light there water on fire in NY where there are and have never been wells drilled.

As far as the roads, the roads are ground down and a layer of rock is built back up and a very thick base and topcoat of blackttop is applied. way better than b4 and look whos paying the bill the Big Gas Companies.

Another thing that drives me crazy is like the City of Binghamton saying they dont want drilling, I dont think they are planning on Drill rigs in downtown Binghamton and if they did it would be better that half of the slum houses down there. Also How about the No fracking signs in the City. I say shut off the gas and see what they heat and cook with. Everyone wants the end result of clean natural gas but they dont want the drilling. Why not be self sufficient rather than paying the other countries and support the terrorists by importing gas. How about drilling a well here and saving a solder. who is naking the money by importing the Gas ?

We could all switch to wood and cut the trees all down Then where would we hunt?

How about Solar its not developed yet people. You have to store the energy somwhere?

Coal well that a real clean energy source ?

How about some more Nuclear powere stations there fun to fish around?

Maybe more Wind farms like everyone fought to keep of Lake Ontario remember that ?

Accidents can happen and cause enviromental dameage. How about a truck overturning spilling its contents into a creek Hmmm?

If drilling can be done and it is being done responseabaly then lets do it and start talikng control of our own country for a change.

The main People complaing are the people that have 2-3 acres of property and were greedy and did not choose to join a coalition and then they were not chosen to drill on. Greed Greed Greed.

[Splitshot115]

Well said! As I sit here on a pad reading this post.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[LongLine]

Accidents can happen and cause enviromental dameage. How about a truck overturning spilling its contents into a creek Hmmm?

How about the dike breaking that was holding the million pounds of cow manure that went into the east end of the lake last yr? (maybe the year before?) Talk about green...er brown...messing things up in that creek.

I still want to know what chemicals. Some claim toxicity is the big problem but none will say what chemicals they're supposedly using. I mean come on, the gas they want to remove is highly toxic.

Tom B.

(LongLine)