What's every one's opinion on this Dog for waterfowl

[flashpoint]

Hey guys,

I am have finally got my heart set to start training a new pup that my son & I can work together & hunt over for years to come. My female lab is going to be 11 Thanksgiving week & her years of hunting are dwindling so it's time to introduce a new one. I have planned on another Lab, but my wife just found out about a litter of Weimaraner pups that are local here in Vt. They come form a champion blood line of dogs that both show & hunt. We have met the **** (think I can say that !) earlier this summer & she has a great disposition

I know they have a great reputation as upland dogs, wondering if any one has hunted with them over water? We are close friends with family of the owner so they are giving us a good deal, but I am strongly leaning towards a Lab still....

What does every one think??

[on the lam]

I have owned Weimys for a long time. The first thing you should know is that they are as human like as a dog can get, by that I mean they are very hard to deal with if things aren't the way they want them. They tend to be vindictive and almost all suffer from separation anxiety. Thats a bad combination because when you leave them alone, they destroy your stuff out of spite.

On the good side the human like qualities are amazing and when properly trained they make outstanding companions. Loving as a dog can get. They have to be with you always and don't take no for an answer. When your seated they will sit along side you and have to make contact with you in some way.

As for hunting, I have had both show and field dogs. I will say, and this not being an expert opinion, They would not be a good water dog. The most obvious thing is the short hair. Keeping warm would be a concern. and additionally I have never owner a weimy the could swim a lick. I mean mine would sink if they were out there too long. Talk about a doggie paddle, the only thing out of the water when my dogs were in it were their heads. I seriously thought they would drown. Great pet, very rambunctious, great at knocking little kids over lol... So to answer the question, get a lab

This is what a weimaraner does best, lay on the couch

[flashpoint]

Thanks so much for your input Pete. You are pretty much spot on as far as what I have read & heard about the dogs. My wife has a huge liking for the female that had the litter, but we really want a dog that is both going to be a great companion & an awesome waterfowler!

BTW....I heard you on the radio a few times this summer while out of Oswego during labor day week. We should catch up! Just give "Flashpoint" a shout!

Thanks again for your input!

Matt

[seasquirrel]

I agree with Pete. If it were me and I had the time to train a dog, I would go with another option for waterfowl. Personally, and I know I am asking for it by all the lab owners, I would forget about the frisbee and tennis ball chasers. A.K.A Labs and buy a hardcore waterfowl dog. A cheasapeake Bay retriever. Put your guns down boys, just kidding. I have hunted over great labs and chessies. One thing you dont need to train a Chessie is to retrieve waterfowl. You shoot one they go get it. The hard part is training them to be steady at the shot, and to bring it to hand. They are a stubborn breed and are tough as nails. I hunt late season ducks on Cayuga lake and I have never yet seen a lab that would willingly get into that really cold water on a real nasty day. A Chessie doesnt even think twice about it. Both dogs are very protective in terms of gaurding your home and family. A Chessie was bread to guard fishing shacks and can be very agressive towards a stranger. Labs will get along with other dogs easier than a Chessie also. Just some things to consider. If you go with a lab, or a Chessie just be sure it comes from good HUNTING lines. Many of the labs have a lot of "hunt" bred out of them from those who dont use them for hunting. I hate to think of the percentage of Labs that never have and never will retrieve a duck or goose because their owners dont hunt. I know there are Chessies that dont hunt also. A Chessies nose is incredible when it comes to waterfowl. Dont crucify me lab owners!

[sandwick50]

Squirrel....As a lab owner I think your assessment is right on. I love my choc lab Jake but he is a cold weather weenie. He has a great personality and loves attention. A great companion. But, he suffers in the cold and I simply don't take him during the late season. I'm sure there's lots of lab owners out there that aren't bothered by the cold but I also think there's alot of labs like mine.

[Duckman1]

I have owned labs for 15+ yrs. Iv had all three. They have been run in hunt tests and field trials. One thing I would suggest if u want a true hunting machine is that the parents are proven docs with titles. I might get some slack but u can take drive out of a dog but u can't put it in. I hunt late season with my yellow and he will outperform most dogs I know as of now. Cold water no probkem. Probably because be is a outside dog. Also make sure the parents are ofa very for hips and elbows. Puppys eyes should be cleared for credit when they are 6 weeks old. Any reputable breader will do this. Don't be afraid to look outside ny. I bought my primary birch in Calif. And breed to dogs that were down south. Good luck labs are great dogs. Off to montazuma in morning.

[ Post made via Android ]

[rolmops]

I used to hunt wild boar with my Weimeraner. They are very patient and disciplined,while (at least mine)being very sweet and gentle with the kids. As for retrieving a bird or rabbit, there are much better choices out there.

Cornelis.

[on the lam]

Thanks so much for your input Pete. You are pretty much spot on as far as what I have read & heard about the dogs. My wife has a huge liking for the female that had the litter, but we really want a dog that is both going to be a great companion & an awesome waterfowler!

BTW....I heard you on the radio a few times this summer while out of Oswego during labor day week. We should catch up! Just give "Flashpoint" a shout!

Thanks again for your input!

Matt

I will try to catch up with you in the spring Matt, give me a shout.... good luck in finding the right dog.

[Gator]

I'm going to ditto the bloodlines thing. My first black lab who is 12 years old now was from Joe Letta in Shortsville (retired now), and she was a great hunter till she went deaf (note to self: dog stays on left side in future). Our year and a half old black is from Cresland Kennels near Victor that breeds primarily guide dog stock. Since I do more bowhunting now than duck I wasn't too disappointed when she ended up being as dumb as a rock

Okay, that's going too far, but she definitely lacks drive and ambition. She's just not enthusiastic about the game. I know that the trainer is usually at fault for issues with the dog, and I'm not the world's best trainer, but the difference between her and the first one is night and day. Both dogs are small ****es and they're both really laid back, but I truly believe that the idea of a "hard-charging" workhorse and a well mannered guide dog are incompatible. Just saying, pedigree is worth paying for...when I was looking last year I saw a kennel down in Northern PA that was Orvis endorsed and seemed to be saying/doing all the right things. I forget their name, does this sound familiar and does anyone have any experience with them?

[indian]

@on the lam, wow....just wow. That description of wiems is kind of harsh to say the least. I've owned 6, I currently have two, no separation anxiety or vindictiveness at all. As far as upland gun dogs go there are non...and I mean NON, easier to train or more determined to please than a wiem. You will give out long before a wiem will, they have endless energy and that is their down fall. If they are not given an outlet daily to use that energy, then yes, they will destroy stuff. But hey, they are a dog and not a piece of furniture. That being the other downfall, people get them because they are beautiful animals, then find out they have an actual purpose bred hound that takes understanding and special handling and not a piece of furniture.

If you want a duck dog, get a Lab. If you want a dog to hunt virtually anything else, get a Wiem, they'll put any other breed to shame head to head, on any animal, fowl or otherwise.

*edit* Also there are three main blood lines of Wiems and they all have there particular strong points and uses.

[on the lam]

Indian. I don't feel I was harsh. 2 of my three had seperation anxiety, and as a result would destroy stuff. The vindictiveness would be as a result of just "leaving" suddenly and they didn't like that, subsequently would do something to let you know they were pissed off, such as tear up some books or take a crap in the middle of the floor. My description of the breeds hunting qualities only considered waterfowling, I know they are great field dogs, but thats not what he asked. They are as you stated " not a piece of furniture" and as a result aren't for everyone. They need alot of attention. And as you stated they are very smart and easily trained. As I type this my weim Grace has her head across my wifes lap on the couch as she is spread out sleeping. As far as im concerned they are a high reward breed.

Grace on the big pond

[Missdemeanor]

Pete....she sure is a pretty girl. I love the grey dogs.

As far as bloodlines, it does help having a hunting line in the parents, but it's not necessary....I have a Choc lab out of Krestland kennels in Victor NY. My boy is out of an English show line. I went to a trainer ( Jim Beverly oak field NY) and he told me that all labs have a natural tendency to retrieve. It's just conditioning that ability to a hunting scenario. I worked with Jim and my dog from May to September. In October of his first year I had him in North Dakota duck hunting....83 retrieves in a week! I was proud to say the least. Now I must say he will not win any titles, and he works at his own pace, but he brings back the birds. I hunt him in some harsh conditions in our late season.....lake Ontario, and the upper Niagara in January can be a bit chilly.....

As far as chessies.....they are totally awesome hunting machines....you just have to do your homework. A friend of mine has Two chessies and they are unreal upland and water dogs.

Good luck with your search for your new hunting partner.

[flashpoint]

Thanks so much for the input guys! All very good insight.....no big suprises as i have been leaning towards a Lab any way! Now to battle it out with my wife & son, as I want a yellow & they want a chocolate!!....hhhmmm.....

[Missdemeanor]

Flash...sent you a Pm.....

To keep up with the Dog pics...here is Mr. Parker....my pal (sorry I kinda over did it on the pics)

[flashpoint]

Flash...sent you a Pm.....

To keep up with the Dog pics...here is Mr. Parker....my pal (sorry I kinda over did it on the pics)

Thanks for the Pics man! Sent you a return to your pm!! Awesome photos...Love it! Give me a shout if your looking for an extra gunning partner some time!

[seasquirrel]

Seet pics! Great looking dog. Is that a hen can in the 5th pic? Niiiice!

[seasquirrel]

For what its worth; I think the yellow and lighter labs, or any dog stick out like a piss hole in the snow. Just a thought

[Miss em]

Most don't give the goldens any respect but these are some hardcore dogs that make amazing pets. This is my mother's kennel. She has been doing it for 35 years. Lots of master hunters coming out of her kennel. Dog in the video is a 4 year old from my last female's last litter. We had to put her down this year at 12 but the we have a new one that is about 14 weeks old now. What a meat hound. We have had some fun shooting and retrieving pigeons at a nearby farm already.

This dog is with a hardcore waterfowler in Massena and really gets a workout.

http://www.adirondac-goldens.com/rusty.htm

Here is my old friend:

[Missdemeanor]

SS.....that is a hen can.....I admit I shot a hen, we normally hold off for the bulls, but it was the last day of the first season. Two of my buddies are Lawn Dart shooting fools.....hence the pile of commons mergs. The drakes are neat though......

Sweet Golden bro....your exactly right about them being overlooked. They have great temperments too. Congrats on the new hunting partner...

[seasquirrel]

Nothing wrong with shooting a hen now and then. I never shot a can but thought that looked like one. We see "jarts" on our local river all the time. Fast and actually and good looking drake

[BLOCKHEAD]

i've got a pudelpointer. about as good as it gets for a versatile /upland dog. if i only hunted ducks , chessy all the way. a lab makes a lot of sense for rochester. or a springer. plenty of rabbits to chase when birds shut down. late season lake O can be ugly. hell ,the coast guard won't even put a boat in the water later in the season. buy the best dog. labs are cheap,even from the the world's best hunting lines. smart money would be on a started dog/finished dog. to many pups wash out. then your stuck feeding a pet that hunts like poo. puppies are cute for a month or two max. then you deal with biteing and bs for the next several months. ask yourself if you have the knoledge and time to train a great dog. chances are, you can find a great dog for little or no cost. most kennels are happy to let you test drive started dogs. field trial washouts can make excellent pets. you probably don't want a dog with insane drive and thick skin. find somebody local and you should get a hell of deal. most breeders can be good source of info and help with training. -good luck

[TripleCreek]

If I were you I would point you away from a Chesapeake Bay Retriever unless you have had them before and know how to deal with them. At times they can have a mind of their own which requires a bit more time during training and yes you do need to train them despite what others say. Also, it can be difficult to call them off a bird when they know one is still in the field or a cripple on the water. If you are going to look into this type of dog make sure you seek out a breeder that field trials their dogs so you know they have great hips and eyes and most importantly are hunters. I hope to have a new dog this time next year and it will be a CBR, however I grew up with the breed and understand their nature.

[RUNNIN REBEL]

Labs are very smart and extremely loyal

What time & effort you put into them is the beginning of what you get out of them

They will not only outlast your will to hunt "blue bird " days........

They will steal your bino's and hunt without you.....

They really only want to please, and will take ANY or ALL credit for a good job done.......

The black labs seem to have the sense of humor.........

And they want the glory pictures......

The yellow labs are the "thinkers"...........

BUT together.......... THE BEST times are had...........

Raising labs living on the lake shore does create its own "situations"..............

Like OPPORTUNITY !!!!!!!!!!

OPPORTUNITY & a good plan.......

My daughter "adopting" them......

Them "adopting" ME................

This defies ALL HUNTING instinct & logic to a hunting lab. BUT it shows the the obedience/Intelligence/patience & family qualities they can have.

NO ANIMALS or DOGS or KIDS or WIVES were harmed in the making of this "DOG MARATHON" of pictures !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jerry

RUNNIN REBEL

[Tall Tails]

Great Pics Jerry!!! I am a Black lab owner myself and yes I would agree on the sense of humor! It is my pups first year in a blind and on his first hunt things were not going as planned but he decided to turn things around for our luck he needed to roll over in the blind for a belly rub...I blame his mother for that... That is something I will never forget. Loyal doesnt begin to describe a Lab.

[flashpoint]

Thanks Jerry!

Can't say enough about all of those pics! JUST AWESOME! We have a female black & springer mix.....undoubtably the most loyal dog I have ever owned. Sad to say her years are numbered, she turned 11 thanksgiving day and her hunting days are over. She still a ham in the house .....never leaves mothers side. Not looking forward to the day that is coming.......

But again thanks for the photos, put a smile on my face, makes me anxiouse to get out in the duck blind! Enjoy "the kids" & Happy Holidays!