what's the best tube for shooting ducks with steel

[dremarquis]

Hi all,

i used to be an obsessed duck hunter decades ago when i lived in texas and we could shoot lead.

i have not hunted ducks much in the last 15 years but i want to do some in the second season coming up. I don't have the money for the expensive non-toxics, so i'll be shooting the winchester shells i have: xpert HV. i have 2s, BB and BBB. What shells would you recommend i use and more importantly, what choke should i use with steel? i have a remington 11-87 and all the stock tubes it came with - from improved cylinder to full choke.

thanks very much!

andre

PS - i still don't have any great looking spots chosen after a couple days of scouting. I live near hemlock and canadice lakes and would rather not travel too far. The south ends of those lakes had virtually no ducks on them today. Do any of you have any suggestions for a spot near hemlock lake where there would be decent chances of decoying some ( i hear that Conesus is good but i also hear there are LOTS of hunters there and i don't like competing with dudes everywhere).

thanks again and Happy Holidays!

[john1947]

Hi ,

I have one gun for ducks. A remington 870 30in. barrel,modified choke.The gun was bought in 1970. I shoot almost excusivly BB shot. It seems to work well with my gun and if I shoot correctly I seldom miss.

It sure brings down the ducks with few cripples.

[turf]

I shoot an 1187 with the same ammo you use, most of the time I have an improved cylinder in mine, of course there are those days where I change it out but the improved for me kills ducks, not wounds ducks. For ducks I use 2's and if I am goose hunting I will use bb's

[Knotlost]

You really need to test your gun, but let me give you a short cut.

The Kicks steel shot tube High Flyer is great. I use it on all my guns and my friends use them. They make about a 10 to 15% real life improvement. In all our tests (20 different types of shot) and using 5 different brands of guns this is what we found. Kent brand steel works the best or as good as any. Some of the worst preforming shot is the most expensive, always the cheaper stuff patterned better. I didn't test any expensive shot that worked good (I haven't tried the new square stuff that's out).

Kent is also one of the cheapest brands as well, not the cheapest but its very affordable. 95% of the time the tightest choke (steel shot choke tubes are labeled different than lead, when you gauge them the "full" is not the same as "full" for lead) worked best.

The biggest variable was in the size of shot, some guns liked 2's some liked BB's.

Now I just recommend the High fly-er extra full or full (there is a 8 pieces of shot in a 24 inch circle) with Kent BBs for goose and ducks. because the pattern is just as good with the BBs most of the time, if that doesn't' pattern then go to the 2s and try it.

Some want to use smaller shot, I don't like it. The pattern density is plenty with BBs so why bother, and it kills better.

Your head will make a big difference, if your mind likes something you will do better with it, so that dose figure into the equation not just science.

My advice is based on 80 test boards shot at 40 yards off a machine rest with 8 different guns 6 different brands. Winchesters SX3 was the best performer in our group {3.5 inch Kent BBs 1550fps 1 3/8oz shot}.

Benelli really liked the extra full high flyer with Kent #2 - 1 3/8 3.5" shells.

We used at least 18 different loads and sizes all 12 gauge mainly 3.5 inch. Kent 3.5 high speed BBs at 1 3/8 at 1550fps was solid.

[Kevin J Legg]

I too shot an 11-87. I also use an IC choke most of the time over decoys for ducks and geese. I may go to mod. if I'm pass shooting. 4's or 2's for ducks, 2's or BB for geese. Works for me 4's seem to work better on the cripples.

[Missdemeanor]

Depends on the situation for me....Kinds of birds, and what time of the season......

In the earlier part of the season for Mallards over decoys I use the I/C tube....For late season divers over decoys I tend to get a little tighter...say a Mod.... This past December/January I tested the pattermaster long range...Holy cow does that thing hold a pattern. I was hunting King Eiders, Scoters, and other sea ducks. I wanted a tighter pattern to make sure I had fewer cripples and when I did have to crack a cripple on the water, there was no question he was down. I am going to try the patternmaster a little more next year out on the big lake for Scoters and Squaws....By the way, that Hevi Metal is real nasty on birds......

[Born to Fish]

We have the best luck with:

BB - Modified - for Geese

#4 - Improved - Ducks in marsh

#2 - Improved - Ducks in fields

#2 or BB - Modified - for Divers

[chowder]

After trashing our mod chokes using the BC loads in 3 different Stoeger 2000s I'm keen on this thread. We are gonna have to start out fresh next year (sept early goose season 2012) with a new game plan for the whole goose season! At first it seemed like the BC was a tremendous advantage but then results went from good to bad. After removing the chokes for a final cleaning I can see why- they all ballooned enough to be almost impossible to remove in the section b4 the threads! Maybe the Kent's w/ a Kicks choke is a good alternative? The Carlson choke is much lower priced - any opinion on these and a good load for geese? Let's keep hearing different alternatives.

[Missdemeanor]

Chowder.....I do like the heavy metal rounds....3 inchers are plenty for honkers...As far as Kents, Ive been using them for a long time...I really like the 3 1/2 inch 2 for divers and BB for sky carp. As afr as chokes, I would seriously look at the pattermaster However you cant shoot BC out of it....Its is a little more money, but man does it keep the shot nice and tight. I tried the carlson as well. Not really impressed..... I did alot of shooting different shot and chokes before my Alaska trip. The PM with Heavy metal was the best out of my gun.

[chowder]

I think I understand the 2 different pellet load in the heavy metal,still trying to back up & get an overall view of this whole thing. Coming to the conclusion that if I could shoot a shotgun 1/4 as well I handle a rifle (or set up dekes better) I wouldn't be looking at loads and chokes near as closely!

[BLOCKHEAD]

99% of the time, it's not the gun, the choke, or the load. proper gun fit helps, even a poor fit can be shot reasonably well. open chokes and steel are deadly inside of 30 yds. very few people shoot enough steel to worry about 30 yd plus shots.

[flybuster]

i think the most overlooked part of this question is always the shooter, is he quick to draw, accurate, estimate and maintain a proper lead and so on, i hunt with alot of different guys each year and they always ask "what tube what load" well the first thing guys who are average or less than average shooters need to figure out is where are they really shooting at the birds and how accurate is there aim

as in PK's pattern test 8 bb's in a 24" ring may work for him but a standard duck is only 12 x 6 "yes i just measured all my mounts from teal to mallards" so even in his test there is a maximum of 3 pellets in the area of a bird so there is a huge wide open pattern covering a large loose area , jump that shot size up to #4 with only a 3" load and a mod choke your looking at closer to 35 hits on that size papper but it all ends up on what works for you

in my opinion anyone trying to find THERE OWN best load unless you consider yourself a expert shooter should approach it like this if your quick getting the shot off go with a more open choke and smaller shot like improved and #4 this is going to give you a big dense pattern when the birds are in on the close side even with poor aim your chances of a hit will be higher. if you are frequently the last one shooting then you should consider tightening up your choke and run #3 or 2 because the birds obviously are getting farther away by the time you get your bead on them this should maintain a dense pattern but still cover enough sky to allow some shooter error

if you start with a tight choke regardless of shotsize and are shooting when the birds are in close 20 25 yards your pattern is so tight the birds you do hit will most likly be destroyed but unless you shot is perfect you will miss most of the time, i havent put any on papper but would assume roughly your whole pattern is under 15 inches at this point you better shoot straight

[Knotlost]

Im sorry Flybuster as you posted I misstated somthing very poorly. The 8 bbs in the 24 inch ring, was and should have been stated ; 8 more bb's in the 24 inch ring using the xtra full choke compared to the full choke. There were a total of 89 BBs in the circle, but remember we shot 3 rounds of the same load to cut down the inconsistancys and get an average between all the loads tested. You will once in a while get a load to work perfect then not get another to do the same for another 20 rounds, so we went to 3 rounds for a testing average. And also my testing was done at 50 yards.

[BLOCKHEAD]

Im sorry Flybuster as you posted I misstated somthing very poorly. The 8 bbs in the 24 inch ring, was and should have been stated ; 8 more bb's in the 24 inch ring using the xtra full choke compared to the full choke. There were a total of 89 BBs in the circle, but remember we shot 3 rounds of the same load to cut down the inconsistancys and get an average between all the loads tested. You will once in a while get a load to work perfect then not get another to do the same for another 20 rounds, so we went to 3 rounds for a testing average. And also my testing was done at 50 yards.

sweet! i'm stocking up on cheap 3.5 duck killa loads. i'll make sure to use to the extra full choke. most of my shots are 50 yds. i'm sure the extra 10 -15 % will come in handy.

[flybuster]

o no reason to appoligise man , i am just a firm believer that even with the same gun people require different setups and shot sizes, have you ever let someone use your gun? i have, it did not help them yet i whack em non stop. personally i use a mod choke and 3 inch shells , never use 3.5 anymore and kill alot more birds than i used to. i used to use them religiously,the expensive ones to hevi shot ect, untill i hunted with a group of guys using smaller cheaper loads and realized they were just out shooting me and my big overpriced shells did not make a difference so i started shooting clays about ten years ago and can say that helped me emencly and can honestly say now i shoot better with everyone i hunt with regardless of what gun i bring with what load i will alaays kill more. typically #1 for geese #3 or #4 ducks from divers to puddelers i shoot any brand shell and any load i can get my hands on and most days have mixed up boxes with a few different sizes and brands with me. i shoot alot of kents, have recently fallen in love with rem-hypersonic and will never again shoot sportsman steel. here is a real intresting read i found last night breaks down pellet count , %of hits and diff chokes with different loads and guns

http://www.outdoorlife.com/node/45682 check it out

[chowder]

in my opinion anyone trying to find THERE OWN best load unless you consider yourself a expert shooter should approach it like this if your quick getting the shot off go with a more open choke and smaller shot like improved and #4 this is going to give you a big dense pattern when the birds are in on the close side even with poor aim your chances of a hit will be higher. if you are frequently the last one shooting then you should consider tightening up your choke and run #3 or 2 because the birds obviously are getting farther away by the time you get your bead on them this should maintain a dense pattern but still cover enough sky to allow some shooter error

Great post, flybuster! Ok as I said in a earlier post I do not consider myself much of a shotgun man. I shoot trap 1-3 times/year using either IC or mod losing 3 birds +/ round. When geese are close (30 yds) I would say I hit em pretty good but passing shots at 40+ are a real challenge for me and I often do poorly in this dept and since my decoying is probably sub par I seem to be presented with this shot a lot. I do have a very consistent shotgun eye for turkey and feel pretty comfortable at 70 yds on spring Toms using 3.5 # 4 hevishot & a super full. On fall birds I'm 100% doubling hens w/ 1 shot at 30-40 w/ 2 3/4 mag turkey# 4 & a mod choke. So what choke & size shot should help me with geese? Thanks!

[flybuster]

if your hitting at 30 to get the 10 more yards the choices are tighter choke or heavier shot than your using, do you ever notice on the farther shots your hitting the bird pushing it off flight line? but it keeps flying unaffected or hear the shot wack a wing but not break i would suggest increasing your shot size.

If it seems like your stone cold missing then tighten up your choke the birds are most likly flying thru the holes in your pattern.

you also have to pay close attention to what chokes you use if your buying aftermarket i dont remember them all but a factory benelli mod tube is restricted to .700 while a kicks mod tube for the same gun is .710 " witch is the same as the benelli factory improved and every manufacturer's restriction is different

as far as your shooting even 3 times a year breaking over 20 leads me to believe your shotgun skill are not bad at all couple of my buddies cant break 10 a round, if your using improved cyl that would lead me to believe you hit them pretty quick out of the house wich is also great . if you want to improve a bit more with shotgunning try a improved modified choke next time you go and try to hit the birds at the same spot out of the house by cutting your pattern down you will force yourself to be more consistant with lead fallow thru ect, when you get that down try full its hard but fun..

what setup do you use now for geese?

[chowder]

FB, thanks for the input. I have noticed that going by the restriction size looks like the way to go. Currently using 3" BB for geese in the Stoeger 2000. Priced Steel yesterday at BP which gives a relative scale though I wouldn't get it there.

Hevishot 3 BB 29.99

Hevimetal 3 BB 26.99

Hypersonic 3 BB 23.99

Kent 3 BB 14.99

At first the price spread looked killer but then I thought to myself; if you put 10 boxes through the gun on geese it would cost you $150 which is probably a pretty small part of what it costs to do much of any of this hunting & fishin stuff! I'm not saying that means I would use the high end ammo- only that I'm not sure it makes too much sense to try & make $ the deciding factor on ammo choice.