NY Musky Inc

[old man]

couple thoughts;we want more musky water from a state that's broke. maybe we need to show how we can pay for it? how about we offer to pay for a year round muskie licence for say,$250.00 on top of the regular licence? if 200 guys would buy it that's $50,000 or enough for 14,000 11" muskies from minnesota muskie farm. ten years of that in seneca lake and we have a great muskie lake in central new york. they could issue a tag to wear on your back similar to the hunter tags to make enforcement easier. how about a muskie stamp/tag similar to deer tags? $25.00 maybe to keep and tag one? just thinking,in these tough economic times to ask new york to spend money on a few muskie nuts may be a tough sell.

[Ronix 51]

speaking of NY being entirely a trout lake the 2011 stocking lists are up...trout everywhere. They put pure strain into a bunch of random places too like olean creek, bear lake, and conewango creek? I know of bear lake but why the creeks? Is that just because they had no where else to put them and didnt feel like driving anywhere?? If they combined the number of 8-10" fish they stocked into those random places and stocked them into a productive body of water wed have 1 more pure strain lake to fish right there. Maybe we might not need to necessarily pay for fish but instead pay for the transportation of them from Pendergast out here.

Also interesting to note they put 10,000 Tigers into Onondaga. Theyve been pumping them into the seneca for a bit but most of them wind up in places like onondaga anyways. It may be polluted as hell still but it is a very productive lake and they'll be able to grow big in there and throughout the river. I plan on putting some time in on the river this summer to try it out.

[NitroMusky]

Interesting. Those are feeder streams for the allegheny river. Maybe something to do with the fact that much of the river is on tribal land so directly stocking the river wasn't feasible?

Btw, of course I'd be in for an MI chapter 69!

[ Post made via BlackBerry ]

[JOE ESOX]

Pretty cool they are putting the tigers into Onondaga also. I have heard of them being caught outta there, but it should become that much better with the direct stocking.

Pures in Seneca would be a dream come true, but don't you guys know that they will eat all the lake trout?! Haha I can hear it now... Seneca is the lake trout capital of the world after all

[Ronix 51]

Theyve already sampled some nice hybrids out of onondaga already and a lot of bass guys will get some 15-20lbsers in the river inlet and surrounding areas. I plan on putting in some time on that area this summer.

Seneca would be great but it would take so long to develop into a fishery. I still believe Conesus would be a good lake to start with.

[mostlymuskies]

Zach, You have the Muskies Inc. forms to start a Chapter in NY,where do you want to go with this?

[mostlymuskies]

Another option would be to start the WNY All Esox Assoc. and have a club that covers Walleye,Northern Pike,Tiger Muskies & Pure-Bred Muskies for all WNY Inland Lakes & Rivers! Move the meetings around between Rochester, Olean & Jamestown,NY. It would cost about $2000 to start a 501c3 club.

[mostlymuskies]

Well not much responce yet! Everyone keeps telling me I should start a 501c3 org for the Chautauqua Bait Fish Fund as well so that it is non taxable on funds carried over from one year to another.If a local club can't be started for local conservation efforts because of lack of interest to step forward to start it,it would be kinda hard to start such an non profit organization for the Bait Fish Fund as well! Both could be combined,Club & Bait Fish Fund,but people willing to hold positions would have to step up to get it off the ground.

[mostlymuskies]

We need to get the Muskies Inc Chapter 69 going or start an All Esox Club this year. Next year I start collecting social security,I no longer will be able to carry the bait fish funds and tourney signup through my paypal account.Between charter funds collected by paypal and tourney paypal collections ,I will end up earning to much and will loose dollars from my social security.If we can't start a muskie club to hold the bait fish funds,I may be forced to bring the Bait Fish Fund to an end!

Capt. Larry

[zach]

Back from making baits. I was hoping for Larry's support and with it I am going to pull the plug and send in info Monday. In no means do I want to run this thing. I will say it 100x b/c I am not responsible enough IMO and I personally don't want to make any decisions. My personal goal for this club would to attempt to stock more lakes with muskies. I would think Larry's fund would stay the same, I don't want any part of that. I will go to Gander and see what nights they have available and get back. I will attempt to inform everyone of progress. I am on board with Ronix and think Conesus is something to start on. I also think it would be the easiest since it already has esox and no trout. What about Honeyoe? Would the bluegill and walleye guys freak out? That is a fertile lake! I personally would love to see everyone, plans trips together and all that. I am thinking if we start asap, for the June tourney I can have a table and attempt to seduce new members. I think its a good thing and will inform Muskies Inc they have the interest needed to start a club. I personally think Conesus could kick out a fatty or two but its gonna be a battle b/c of the amount of pike ice fishermen. It will have its issues but I look at it like this- PA our closest neighbor stocks something like 160 waterways for muskies. We do what? Like 4-5 lakes and a couple of rivers. Another thing to work on is to get the same fishing reg's as PA. They have been fishing for some time now and look at us, all we can do is travel or just day dream about it. Will be back with info on Monday.

[zach]

Larry- once again, sorry to just drop outta site for a bit, but I will make it happen. I really want to help out anyway possible and will do what I can to raise $ and also spread the word.

P.S. Old Man- sick baits my man! The Pickle Tuber's huh? Uh oh, no fish are safe now! Here's a few I just banged out as I haven't posted of my work lately.

Blazed Walleye

Larry- if your still planning on LSC- the guys in PA slammed them on the $9 Bass last year

Red Bar

Perch

Solgrande's St Larry Baits

The "Sol Grande" 13" shallow

UV Blue Perch

UV Blue Frog

[mostlymuskies]

Zach, Welcome back! Lets get the Muskies Inc. Chapter going. I would take a board position,preferably Conservation Director,but I could take Pres. or Vice Pres. for the 1st year to get the Chapter off the ground. Lets get it formed and operational before June muskie opener.

Capt. Larry

[iiwhistlerii]

I'm in for sure. Whatever I can do to help from Niagara County I'd be happy to do anything needed. I'm sure I'd be able to scrape together a few other Musky addicts that like to "stay off the radar" so to speak, to help support the cause. It would be great to help make some changes that really help this fishery reach its potential. Seems to me it's been foolishly underutilized for way too long.

[zach]

Very nice. I bet lots of guys will come out of the wood work once this thing gets going. Then again, their will be those who say we ruined something too. Any who's. Excited to get us all together with a common cause in mind! Going through paper work today to see what all I need to do. I joined 3Rivers this winter and through them I started getting MI mags. In the last one I was looking at big fish of the year, don't you know it, my little bait caught the 2nd largest fish of the year on Chautauqua according to their records. Look it up if you don't believe me. Super neat. The largest fish according to MI records from last year was caught on a Perch Bait so I can take that, it is the standard for that lake and everyone uses them so I expect that. I am happy with 2nd

One last question- what about stocking muskies in the Genesee between Mt Morris and Upper Falls. They would have miles of water, good food base and not as many trout to eat so those guys can't all freak out as much. Imagine like 30 miles of muskie river to fish and no one around? Awesome!

PS- Blueeye- if we do get this rolling, think we can have a sticky topic up top on Chapter 69 to talk on? Would be cool?

[JOE ESOX]

sick baits zack. i will have to get me a few before the opener. i am definitely in for the club. we really need to get the season extended here in NY and if we could influence DEC to stock another lake or two that would really be something. would conesus really be the best choice? no doubt it would be great as far as habitat but we already have tigers and monster pike in there, so as esox fisherman we already "have" that lake. i see the point that it may be the easiest to get DEC to stock since it would most likely not change the ecosystem very much and we all know conesus is packed full of bait...but conesus is already a destination for esox anglers and ultimately i think the goal of a club like this would be to create new destinations for us esox junkies.

also- does anyone know if the docks are in on cowanesque? i am getting sick of brown trout haha

[ Post made via iPhone ]

[zach]

Good post Joe- these are all things we need to discuss and get on common grounds about. These are the things that we should go over in our first meeting and discuss on here. Set our group goals and ways to accomplish them. We all have different ideas on what can help esox addicts like us and all of them are good ideas. IMHO We just need to focus on one or two things and go from there. I can tell you that 3Rivers (cpt 16 in PA) has DEC members and guys from the fish commission at meetings, I would like the same. If we could find one DEC guy or fish commission guy to just hop on with us, things would happen quicker. I want those guys at the meetings. Gonna be a long road but if we are unorganized nothing will change. If we form a group, we have more pull and more chance they will listen. You guys ROCK! We have the good people needed for this, now we all have to get on common ground.

Mike said earlier- free Baker Baits to everyone- honestly I would like my baits to have nothing to do with this, not trying to "pimp them" or "push them" just a concerned angler that hates driving 80 miles to musky fish. The only thing my baits would do is help us raise $ through fundraisers. Hey Solgrande- you want the promotions job? You would be perfect for that IMO.

So I guess the first question, is do we

#1- try to get the same fishing regs as PA ( open all Year )

#2- attempt to stock new waters

#3- both?

[JOE ESOX]

i definitely agree we would need to focus on 1 or 2 specific goals and go from there... probably best to first shoot for getting the season extended and better utilizing the resources we already have in place.. either way anything that benefits the musky/esox fishery in NY i would be behind 100% (as i am sure you guys would be). it would be cool to gather and hear everyone else's ideas and brainstorm a little.

[ Post made via iPhone ]

[zach]

I agree also, extending the season might be the easiest thing to do since the lakes already have fish in them. All we need to do is look at MN, they stocked Mille Lacs and other lakes and look at them now, people drive 1/2 way across the country to fish it.

[Ronix 51]

I definitely agree on extending the season, if not open year round at least have it close later. I also agree on focusing on the resources we have and keeping those fisheries in good shape instead of trying to make new pure waters. There are some places though that i think some of the fish from chautauqua would be better put instead of some of the random places they dump them.

one thing you gotta take into account though too is which lakes are being stocked and with which strain fish...theres a lot of research being looked at with mill lacs because theyve been breeding fish mixed with random strains and ruining the gene pools of those true mill lacs giants...the fish arent growing as fast or as large there now because of mixing genetics. We have to always take those things into consideration too. Theres a presentation video somewhere of a leading authority biologist from wisconsin who discusses it ill try and find it

[Ronix 51]

[muskyfirst]1426[/muskyfirst]

Theres a really informative video on what the mixing of genetic strains can do. Dr. Brian Sloss is a leading authority on muskie genetics and really gives a great presentation, he takes a very complicated topic like genetics and discusses it in ways that are much easier to understand.

This video is also important because there are some that feel the st lawrence should be supplementally stocked to maintain population but as Dr. Sloss points out in the video it can be very detrimental if you go messing with gene pools.

[BlueEye]

All set Zach - I made the topic a "sticky" post so it stays at the top of the forum. I agree with focusing 1st efforts of new club on getting the season extended with the stipulation that it is a "Catch and Release" only season - this is what 95% of musky anglers practice anyways but adding that stipulation can only help the cause seeing as the argument is a political one IMHO. Next I'd focus on how much county and state revenue is generated in Ohio (or other similar temperate climate states with musky waters) during months that their season is open while ours is closed. Remember that this is a political issue and thus should be approached with the "why/how is this beneficial to the state and surrounding counties" attitude.

Similar reasoning can be found in the latest NYS 3-Rod law (i.e., allowing anglers to run three rods while not increasing the creel limits > anglers have greater chance at catching fish > anglers more likely to return to the state if odds of catching fish is greater > more money for the state in license sales and counties in hotels, restaurants, gas, etc.). Win, win, win.

Cheers,

Chad

[zach]

I am down with that. What- Try to get it going in like May with a catch and release season until the normal opener and what- try to extend our NY season until December like Canada? That would be crazy to see what would happen in the 1000 islands and Buffalo Harbor if you could get that extra time. What about the extra stress a place like the Harbor would get in the early season? We dont want to destroy that do we?

Chad- thanks for making this sticky.

[iiwhistlerii]

My 2 cents.....

1. Take a page from the bass regulations. Push for a catch and release artificial only season from Dec 15th to the 3rd Saturday in June in STOCKED waters only.

2. Work on extending the Upper Niagara River and Lake Erie season to the 15th of Dec to match that of the Lower Niagara, Lake Ontario and the St. Lawrence. Personally I'm not sure I could support the idea of an earlier opener on waters that rely on 100% natural reproduction. I'm uneducated on how angling pressure would effect the spawn in these areas and I'd rather not take the "fish now, find out after approach".

3. Gain support from current organizations. A speaking engagement at a NMA meeting laying down the NY Musky Inc agenda, introducing the organization not as a competing group, but as a supplemental organization to help improve the fishery as a whole. This could only help give the organization and initial jump start and with feedback from other local organizations that have already come together to make changes to the regulations of their fishery, a united front could only help.

If the organization can come together, set goals and in short time make these changes to the fishery it will present NY Muskies Inc as a solid group that can set out to make changes and reach their goals. With this, additional support will follow and bigger and better things with that support. (Additional stockings, new musky waters etc.)

[mostlymuskies]

As a charter member of the NMA I can say that the present muskie season start & stop dates were advicated by the NMA to protect the Niagara River fishery.The Buffalo Harbor & Upper Niagara River have seen a very big drop in muskie size and numbers over the past 7 years.Some of the bigger 50" to 54" muskies died of old age,some possably from VHS,but the recruitment behind those lost muskies was not very good for a number of years,so numbers are way down.The Upper Niagara river is starting to show some young of year muskies present,but not in all the regular spawning habitat.There seems to be a good recruitment of mid 30's inch muskies in the river,but numbers of bigger muskies is still very low.The Buffalo Harbor is having a very poor recuitment,no young of year muskies were found sein netting studies.The Buffalo Harbor & Upper Niagara River need to have the season stay closed in December,accualy there needs to be a push to get the Canadian side to close the season at the end of November and raise sizelimits as well.Chautauqua Lake does have a very limited amount of muskie natural reproduction going on,so changing seasons is a tough sell to NY DEC Warm Water Fisheries guy's in Albany.We may be able to talk them into a 3rd Saturday in May muskie season start for Chautauqua Lake because the spawn is done by then.We may also talk them into extending the season on Chautauqua Lake to December 15th as well.I think any extended season should be total catch & release for those extra fishing days.They will never go for total catch & release for muskies year round,the opposition from bass & walleye clubs would be totaly again'st any move in that direction and they have more numbers of fishermen.First thing is to get the Muskies Inc. Chapter going,work with the NMA as far as what is needed for the Niagara River & Bugffalo Harbor,Habitat Restoration.The main focus for a New Muskies Inc. Chapter should be on making sure that Prendergast Hatchery continues to operate,if we some day loose the hatchery,we loose our whole Inland Lake Pure-Bred Muskie Fisheries.Get established first,do a project like fin clip study on Chautauqua Lake,possibly replanting of cabbage beds in other places on the lake using existing plants.A study can also be done to see why they stocked Tiger Muskies in Conesus Lake over Pure-Bred Muskies.Tiger Muskies are usualy stocked as a short term solution to control populations of bait fish and other panfish species,as the numbers of bait fish and panfish start to decline they stop stocking Tiger Muskies.Because Tiger Muskies do not reproduce,if they do not restock them they will be gone over time and the other fish populations can multiply again.So we need to understand the total control of the fishery.Any water that has Northern Pike present is also not good for hatched musky fry,because they spawn first and those hatched Northern Pike Fry will be big enough to eat the Muskie Fry when they hatch.So any Pure-Bred Muskie program for Conesus Lake if it could be done would rely on stocking of sizable Muskie Fingerlings to have any real survival rate.But first of all we need to have a meeting to see if we can field enough interested people to get a New Muskies Inc. Chapter started,to protect the Inland Muskie Fisheries and work with the NMA in that presuit,along with supporting the NMA in there work as well!

[zach]

Great points Larry and I was always under my own impression that NMA would take care of the Harbor and River and this new Muskies Inc would be for the inland water ways. IMO- how about we focus on the inland water ways that are stocked for muskies. Natural fish deserve to spawn unmolested IMO. Can we agree that changing regs on the Great Lakes is a very tough sell. Inland waterways may be easier short term. By tomorrow night I will try to have a meeting time and place set up. I will attempt to get all options so most people have the chance to make it. Lex has to work all day today so I have the kid and I will stop into Gander tomorrow when the kid is at school and talk to the woman I talked to in the past who said we can work something out. Once I get a set time I will personally attempt to promote it as much as I can. When I spoke to Jay Zahn (ms) the big President of MI he said his Green Bay chapter started with less than 10 people and over the years it has grown into almost 1,000 strong. Chicago MI has over 3,000 members and 3Rivers is around a 1,000 from what I recall. All of them started small and took a chance on this, so can we. This club would also help shorten the learning curve with new musky fisherman and get them the right info to release fish good and all that. We don't have to share our "secrets" but we can get newbies pointed in the right direction.

Larry- when is the next NMA meeting? Maybe I can have Solgrande come scoop me up if he is going to the next one? Would be a good thing to see what the NMA members think. I am down to try to present it to them, drink a frosty or five (u guys still meet at the bar?, you used to 10 years ago when I made a few NMA meetings), b.s. and listen to others.

Me personally- I just want a choice of musky lakes and options so when my 4 yr old and I go musky fishing in a few years, he has good odds of laying the smack down on some fish. His first trip will be casting at Cassadaga in maybe 2-3 years. I already have it all planned out in my head, lol. Can't wait to start making some small 4"-5" Suicks and some small topwaters for him.

The Hatchery at Chautauqua should be our #1 priority. Can we agree on this?