New Proposed Law Will Cripple Boating and Fishing in NY

[tbulhead]

Just because they pass the law does not mean people will follow it. How many pleasure boaters and fisherman will actually take it. Sure you will have a lot of them take the course, but a lot of them will not and still be out on the water. Just look at automobiles. How many drivers have expired licenses, no insurence, or an expired registration. How many people have a auto license and you wonder how they ever past the test. This law will not fix anything. It is just wishful thinking in fantasy land.

[localyocal]

It is about time..we have had this in Canada for years. Everyone should be able to operate a boat

safely and even though lots of guys have been doing it for years, doesn't mean they really know

how to do it safely. Many times we have seen some very dumb manouvres being pulled just outside

our Marina and especially when it comes to channels.

[colet73]

Husband works in the NYS Senate and is a boat owner. We boat on Lake George during the summer, so he's been watching this bill since it was introduced in 2004. He just pulled it up on 4/2 at 10am. This is dead for now. No one in the Transportation Committee has picked it up for re-introduction.

Part of me is in support, as it will rid the weekend idiots from all over who decide to rent a boat to see the water. I can't tell you how many times we've nearly had some moron drive one of those rentals into our cruiser! The other part of me is great, where am I going to find the time for this, more $...so sick of all the NYS fees. I also agree that there should be some sort of grandfathering. My husband has been boating since he could walk, and I have been boating for about 20 years.

Also, we have been training our 6 year old son (yes, 6!) on navigation rules. When out on the lake we ask him questions, like if a boat is coming at you, what do you do? Can you spot the different markers? What do they mean? As well, as questions on how to use the marine radio, depth finder, etc. He's also was successful at docking twice at the end of last season, and is getting really good at his knots, now if he could only tie his shoes!

[Chas0218]

Hope that includes sailboats with kickers! They could learn about a boat overtaking another boat . Slower boat has right of way. Never understood how a sailboat going 10mph faster than I am thinks I can get out of the way!

Sorry bud, according to the rules,a sailing vessel always has the right of way.

There is discussion about that being true when the vessel is under engine power, but as a rule of fist, it is the rag boat that has right of way.

I thought that was only true if they were sailing, not under power.

[MikeyP]

Hope that includes sailboats with kickers! They could learn about a boat overtaking another boat . Slower boat has right of way. Never understood how a sailboat going 10mph faster than I am thinks I can get out of the way!

Sorry bud, according to the rules,a sailing vessel always has the right of way.

There is discussion about that being true when the vessel is under engine power, but as a rule of fist, it is the rag boat that has right of way.

I thought that was only true if they were sailing, not under power.

[quality time]

Overtaking situation

Any vessel (including a sailing vessel) which is overtaking another vessel must keep well clear of the vessel overtaken. You can overtake the other vessel on either side but only when it is safe to do so, and you must keep well clear.

[kliph]

Having a license to drive a boat does not make you a safe boater.

Every car accident has a licensed driver.

As Tim and others have said it's a NYS money grab.

More intrusion in our lives.

As a matter of fact I think the water- ways are safer than the roads.

And the roads have speed limits and stop signs and signals and

driving lanes.

It's more dangerous to drive to the water.... than being on the water.

And everyone driving a car is a licensed driver.

[larryg]

After 16 years as a Master Instructor and Qualified Examiner at the fed., state and local level I want to clear-up a few points on this Bill.

(1.) this is not New. It has been rejected by the State dating back before 2004. The reason it has not passed into law is the powerful Marine Retailers Associaton and marina boat rential groups lobby in Albany. Why? Because it amounts to big $$$ in their pockets to sell and rent boats to idiots that don't know how to operate them safely.

(2.) This is NOT a NYS money grab! The only way the state gets any money is if you take your certification from NYS P, R & HP office. If you take the USPS or USCGA course 100% of your fee goes to their boating safety programs, NOT TO NYS. the state gets their money from your trailer and boat registration.

(3.) You are Exempt if you are licenced by the USCG or Canadian CG to operate a vessel (OUPV 6-pack Captains you are good to go)! Experienced boaters, challange the exam without taking the class, there is no fee involved. Out of stater? if your certification is USCG, USPS or USCGA approved you are okay to operate in NYS.

All I could do is provide the "knowledge" to the general public and people seeking a USCG licence by teaching and testing them basic intructions on safe boating and COLREGS in Cleveland, Buffalo and Rochester. I could not teach them any "skills" to become better Charter Captains or boat operators due to insurance reasons. The only groups I could give skills training to were fed., state and local government personnel.

Thus, you can teach the knowledge but the skills can only be self-learned.

Yes, you can't fix stupid, just fail them on their certification exam.

[chinook35]

Thank you larryg ! Your post tells the whole story . I hope this legislation becomes law . And soon !!

[lost a lure]

Nice explanation Larry. I ask the others, how do you think NYS is making money on this?

[Old Outboard]

I checked in with the Town of Hamlin Recreation Dept to see if they were offering the safe boating course. They were, but it the class was full. The PWC class still had openings, but costs $35.00. The director is currently attemping to schedule another class in the near future. I will post the particulars here when I receive them.

See you on the water,

Jason

[muskybob]

Nice post larryg. Thanks for the clarification.

[TyeeTanic]

Having a license to drive a boat does not make you a safe boater.

Every car accident has a licensed driver.

As Tim and others have said it's a NYS money grab.

More intrusion in our lives.

As a matter of fact I think the water- ways are safer than the roads.

And the roads have speed limits and stop signs and signals and

driving lanes.

It's more dangerous to drive to the water.... than being on the water.

And everyone driving a car is a licensed driver.

I have to disagree here. If people didn't have to take tests to get their driver's licenses are you saying there wouldn't be as many accidents, or even the same amount of accidents???

People learn a lot studying and taking their driver's examination. Yes it isn't perfect - there are still idiots out there. But, look at the masses, it does make better and safer drivers out of us. Without a licensing system there would be complete chaos and carnage on the roads.

Now I agree, there fewer boating accidents than car accidents, but will this mean anything to you if your wife or child is killed in a boating accident because some idiot didn't know or care to learn about the rules of boating safety?

I don't think so ... licensing boat operation is a very good thing. And it actually doesn't take much effort or money to do. We are talking about a week or two out of a person's life, and less money than it takes to fill our car up with gas.

Mark

[LongLine]

http://www.justia.com/injury/boat-accidents/

A number of different factors commonly cause boating accidents: Significantly, over one third of all boating accidents involve a driver who is under the influence of alcohol.

http://www.boattest.com/resources/view_ ... ?NewsID=76

USCG Statistics- Causes of Boating Fatalities 2005

The leading cause of boating accidents (61%) is improper vessel operation. 21% of all fatalities involved alcohol, and the leading single cause of improper vessel operation was alcohol.

http://www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/1998stats.htm

35% of boating accidents were directly attributable to alcohol use and the overwhelming primary cause of fatalities was alcohol-related.

http://www.articlesbase.com/personal-in ... 44472.html

Education and attention won't prevent boating accidents if alcohol is involved. Alcohol was involved in more than half of boating fatalities in Arizona alone. Marine accident investigators in Minnesota say that even small amounts of alcohol are enough cause "measurable impairment" in even experienced boaters.

http://www.uscgboating.org/assets/1/Pub ... s_2008.pdf

Alcohol use is the leading contributing factor in fatal boating accidents; it was listed as the leading factor in 17% of the deaths.

Interestingly NYS has DUI & DWI laws for autos but only has DWI for boating. Perhaps Boating should have an “open container law†for boating just like autos have? i.e you can’t have alcohol on board if it’s intended for onboard consumption. Nahh, that wouldn’t work, there’d probably be a trail of beer cans in the water from the Niagara to Henderson, whenever the CG came out.

Interesting also is a point everyone seems to be missing and that is for an auto license you’re required to pass a written exam and a road test. Boating course doesn’t require the “road†test, rather they assume you already know how to launch, drive & handle a boat. Seems to me that issues with driving, handling and just paying attention when operating the boat cause the most accidents, not whether I know “Red-Right-Returning.†I don’t think I’ve ever heard another boat blow his horn thus indicating his intention. I take that back…I heard the Stephen B. Roman blow his horn once…but I think he was saying “get the “F†out’a my way!"

On a related issue: My hats off to the sailing school every Saturday morning on the Genny for teaching the junior ragboaters how to handle their small craft. Unfortunately, they’re also teaching them how to jam up the entire channel so other boats can’t get through.

Tom B.

(LongLine)

[pikeopay]

Don't worry with the costs of vehicle, boat & trailer registrations, inspections, insurance, gasoline, taxes & license fees and oh lets not forget health insurance costs there won't be as many boats on the water in coming years so the problem will take care of itself, so what the heck we might as well just add one more regulation to the mix no harm done its all for our own good anyway. Remember when hunting and fishing was a fun, inexpensive and uncomplicated way to do things with your family? if not then I guess you won't like or understand my post. Maybe I'm just getting old and out of touch.

[Mortigan]

One of the many reasons I own a kayak - which I've taken a safety course for.

[skipper19]

What bothers me more is this scenario....hey! I won the big 10 million dollar lottery and I'm buying a 65 foot Hatteras sport fisherman and I am just gonna take it out with my friends and fish lake O. No license required or any wheel time necessary. It has 45 tons of mass is 18 feet wide and powered with 4000 horses. Docking should be no problem.

Sorta like asking a 16 year old that is driving a smart car to drive my 18 wheeler parallel park it or back into a blind side loading dock flanked by other trucks. More than a written test and exam should be required. However no rule says you can't drive a 40 foot fifth wheel camper behind a pickup and in some states still hook another trailer behind that!

But we all know boats don't handle quite the same as land vehicles. Knowing the navigational aspects is just the beginning but not the end to developing handling skills. Any vessel or vehicle is only as safe as the common sence being exercised at the wheel. As Tom Longline pointed out over and over again in his quest for knowledge in regards to the cause of accidents, in most cases it was influences of alcohol or drugs. Which by the way are amplified by the effects of the sea conditions further reducing the common sence. Too bad there wasn't a scale to measure that first.

[ Post made via Android ]

[jonboat]

I don't have a problem with boaters learning safety, rules of the road, etc. However, I do have a problem with mandating every boat owner to pay $75.00 to take an 8 hour course. I took my boater safety course 35 years ago - it was required for anyone 12-16 to operate a power boat. I also was fully qualified on helm and lee helm (driving the ship) on a frigate back in my Navy days. Since I took my boater's safety course, there have been some changes to recreational boating regulations, but not very many. Any noobie that has a clue and wants to be safe, only needs to go to the nyparks.com website for a handy little book with all of the basics http://www.nysparks.com/recreation/boating/documents/NYSBoatersGuide.pdf.

Drunk driving has dropped off over the last couple decades because of increased enforcement and harsher penalties - that is what is needed with regard to boating safety (and BWI). Even with the decrease in DWI, there are still idiots that are multiple-repeat offenders. In cases like that - as Ron White says: "you can't fix stupid" (you can't legislate common sense either).

We'll always have idiots that are unsafe on the waters, just like we'll always have unsafe drivers on the roads. The best we can hope for is that law enforcement catches up with them and they get penalized for their actions. They want to do a money-grab, they need to start fining idiots more.

NOW for a little bit of a counter-point were the bill written a little differently: IF there were a grandfather clause - I'd have no problem. IF there was an option to simply take the test to get a certificate, I could live with it. As written today - I wholeheartedly am against this bill and just sent an email to my State Senator's office urging him to vote against it so that it never leaves committee in it's current form.