Pro-Am update

[Yankee Troller]

OK all here is what I found out last night:

Rules - they are all unified! Everything is the same at all 4 tournaments.

Communication - Open at all 4 events. Mike Waterhouse's explanation was as he quoted Dave Mull (GLA owner) "Why have a rule you can enforce?" I know we here dont like that but he has a valid point.

Challenge Cup - Cost is $100 towards the West 2 tournaments prize structure and $100 towards the East 2 tournaments prize structure. $200 if your doing all 4. Challenge cup will go to a ponits system to even out the playing field. If you are looking to fish all four, at this time, they think they have a sponsor for that. If so that sponsor is going to donate 5k towards that prize structure. So in reality if you fish all 4 events you could win the West the East and the over all. I think this is a great move to increase competition in the cup series.

Amature division - A few rule changes here. For one Amature teams can now consist of 2 people and an observer. Im not sure on how they are going to work the 6 rod rule, so Im gonna wait till they post these new rules on thier website. Amatures will be able to cull as long as the fish isnt netted. This means a release at the back of the boat. They are really trying to increase the amature side becasue of the lack of participation. Lets face it there are more amatures out there than there are Captains.

I think thats it, and if I forgot something I appologize. I figured I would post this seeing how Steve is very busy. I hope I was also clear enough on the new changes. Please dont hammer me if I was wrong on interpreting these new rules!

[waterlogged]

YT,

I read in a previous post that the amateurs can run 6 rods as long as the observer has a vailid fishing license.

Clarke

[Yankee Troller]

I thought that was the case too. I wasnt sure so I didnt post it.

[waterlogged]

Rick,

As I said I read and can't verify it authenticity.

Clarke

[waterlogged]

Rick - Here's the referenced post.

David Chilson

Joined: 13 Dec 2006

Posts: 2

Location: Rochester, NY

Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 10:27 pm

Post subject: Open Communications

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Open communications and the rules have been standardized for all tournaments. A 12 fish limit for the Pro division with no more than 2 lake trout. In the Am division, there is a 7 fish limit with the requirement of one lake trout. Also 2 person teams are now eligble. (Observer must have a fishing license to run 6 rods) Additionally in the am division only, unijured fish may be released at boatside.

The complete rules should be available in the near future on the Pro-Am web site or as soon as they make them available I can put them in a pdf file to forward.

[Yankee Troller]

Thanks Clarke!

[Billy V]

I'm glad to see unified rules, even if I happen to disagree with the open communication rule. Did I also see somewhere that all the events are Sat-Sun this year?

[Time Out]

Hear anything on a host and someone to run Oswego?

[Yankee Troller]

As far as I know they are still on for Oswego. And yes they are all Saturday/Sunday.

[KING ME]

YT -thanks bro.

open communication at all events

All tournaments Sat/Sun

Leave time AM: 5:15 Pro 5:30

Start fishing -ALl at 6:00

ALL BOATS MUST BE THRU PIER HEADS BY 2:00

All teams must be in weight by 3:00

SPOTTERS MUST STAY WITH COOLERS AND CAPTAINS TILL ALL WEIGH INS ARE OVER!

A "Big fish" must be announced and weighted duuring your original weight in

Entry pro: $500.00

Entry Am $200.00

Point system for cup will be similar to that of nascar

Pro's only allowed 12 fish total -no more than 2 lake trout

Am's allow 6 fish plus 1 lake trout

Jerry, mike or chris may add to this post later.

[daker1979]

Hear anything on a host and someone to run Oswego?

Reply with quote

Rich,

The Oswego is run now by Greg Gehrig.Chris Kenyon will be adding information later when he joins the board.

_________________

Capt. Steve Drave

King Me Sportfishing Charters

Last edited by KING ME on Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:44 pm; edited 1 time in total

Greg Gehrig is Top Gun Charters

[Reel Action]

They did also mention that there will be LOC scales at each weigh-in so if you have a LOC-worthy fish for the summer derby, you will be able to weigh it in at the same time as the pro-am weigh in.

[L&M]

Just venting. But the open communication thing isn't right. If that's the case why do we need an observer. You can come in with X number of fish Pro or Am. They were there to collect cell phns etc and make sure that there were no communications at all between boats, as well as # rod's etc. I see it as a big disadvantage to someone coming in to an area and fishing against locals that know the water and fish it most every day. They might as well call it the LOC # 2 Derby. With open com. it's not going to be the same. Go out and do what you can do on your own and may the best team win.

** This has no reflection on what this forum or the owners think. Just my own opinion.

K I'm done with the venting.

[daker1979]

Hank, I agree with you 100%. It's too bad that with technology today it's almost impossible to inforce the No-communication rule. Unfortunately when there is money involved there are those with no-integerity and will find someway to circumvent the rules. Therefore do not have a rule!!!! So sad !!

Just my own 2 cents

[KING ME]

I changed my whole stratagy for this years pro-am events....instead of spending 3 or 4 days prefishing and spending $1,000.00 in gas I am going to spend an hour collecting the top 9 tournament anglers phone numbers :roll: :evil: :?:

[Miss em]

Our observer last year in Olcott had a "secret code" worked out with his team. He calling them to let them know our status and location, as we were hitting the cohos really well. I could hear the whole thing and finally told him "Why don't you just read the lat/lon right off of the gps?" Open communication is a joke!

[Paul Czarnecki]

HI Jeff,

So....give us the rest of the story----did the observer on your boat give away your coho location to "his" team and did they come over and win the tournament in your spot?

In all likelihood, what that observer DID do was fill the other captain's head full of "What if" and "Maybe we should"....etc, etc. In short, the observer did more to HURT the other team than help them. Do you really think that another boat could get second hand info about your spot, pull lines and run there and then beat you? Especially when you already had a big head start on the spot and the program in the first place.

AT BEST, what might happen is the observer on your boat calls his team who might be sitting on a zero and they come over and catch MAYBE a couple of fish. You will still beat them and they won't have to come in with a zero. He won't be embarrassed and will, most likely, fish the event again next year. Everybody's happy! End of story.

What you SHOULD have done Jeff, like Bob Cinelli and I suggested at the Captain's meeting (and in the rules), is talk to the Captain of the boat you exchanged observers with at the Captain's meeting and establish parameters for the communication. If you don't want him calling his observer then tell him so. If you don't want his observer calling him tell the observer not to call. That's what I've done since the inception of the rule and haven't had a problem yet.

Remember guys---the open communication rule is designed for captain to captain communication ONLY. Respect it and there won't be any problems.

[Miss em]

Of course at this point, I can't even remember what team he was with, or how they placed. My point is that I thought it was BS and that I am a fan of closed communication. Just my opinion. I know that this past Oswego Pro Am, we found fish on our own that extra boat traffic would have messed up big time if the observer had spilled the beans.

[troubles]

I agree with Captains only communication.

And then there won't be any issues.

Observers are there only for rule enforcement.

With the text messaging that goes on today it's impossible to enforce no communications.

It's impossible to keep people from hiding phones in a boat cabin.

The observer should turn off and show the captain the phone when he boards the boat. We all did this and they should.

The captains should work this out.

[Paul Czarnecki]

I agree Jeff--that kind of conduct is total BS but I hope you can see my point. While calling the observer is total BS I'm sure you can agree that it would be just as frustrating to have an observer on your boat that goes downstairs to the head and text messages his team all your specifics while you THOUGHT the tournament was no communication. That exact scenario happened several times last year in Sodus involving several well known captains--and Sodus was a closed communication tournament.

Its a sad fact but there will ALWAYS be sneaky underhanded tactics used by people when there is money and ego involved. All this goes back to my original suggestion: Talk to the other captain at the meeting BEFORE the tournament and establish your parameters. If he wants to call your boat he talks to only YOU and you do the same for him. If you don't like communicating tell him so and ask that he respect your wishes.

If everyone will do this there will not be any problems.

As far as communication giving a "home boy" an advantage I don't see it. Like I said in my earlier post, if I get a call that a friend is killing the fish several miles away and I'm not, I have to make the decision to take away from my fishing time, pull my lines and run to his spot and then try to catch fish that he has been on for some time. AT BEST, I'm going to get a few--no way will I beat someone that has been there all morning. So, before I run I have to ask myself the question charter captains ask themselves every day, "Is it worth the run?"

The open communication rule has been adopted by all 4 Lake Ontario ProAms because it makes sense. If you can't effectively enforce a rule why have it? By opening communication we are hoping to tear down some walls and eliminate some of the fear and apprehension of going into a strange port to fish a tournament. Niagara has had the rule in place for several years and we have watched it closely. NEVER has communication played a part of a winning team's strategy and, to my knowledge, none of the top teams have ever benefited from the open communication at the expense of other teams. What it HAS done, is increase participation by the "little guy" and allowed him to come in with a few fish. He may not win, but if he can call a buddy and get some help he might get a few and, at least "feel competitive" and have some fun. THAT is what these tournaments should be all about.

See ya at the Captain's Meeting!

Paul

[A-TOM-MIK]

Open Communication Blows !!!!!!!!!!

Last word I received from some of the Team Cold Steel/A-TOM-MIK is we may not even fish the Pro/Am's this year. Not entirely due to the communication rule but due to other reasons as well.

I think the vote on another thread concerning communication was 34 to 6 in favor of no communication. Even thought this may be a small cross section of anglers opinions it still speaks of a majority liking, am I wrong? The new communicatrion rule stinks in my opinion, doing it on your own shows more skill, open communication boils down to who is blowing who, who sucks more input outa the next guy, etc. ect. No need to do so much pre-fishing, no need to worry so much about where we will be going, what we will be running, lets just wait to see how team such and such does and we will feed off that.

Would have much rather fished them with no communication if we do continue to even do so.

Tom

[L&M]

Tom : I'm with you 100%. I only do the Sodus deal & Oswego altho I wasn't on the boat at Oswego last year. If it's going to be a tru Po-Am. Leave it the way it was. NO communication. I have never seen a problem with this in the past. Everyone put the phns away including the observer and the radio was on 16 for emergencies or start or quit time. As far as Paul stated in the above post about the home boy having an advantage> Yes they do with open com.. We all fish those waters and between private channels and cell's do you think if we were aloud to use them that it wouldn't make a difference? There are a few that are out every day on charters that aren't in the Pro-Am and can direct you to whats going on between friends. Sad deal all the way around. This is not a hard rule to enforce. That's what it is and it's not that hard to enforce, unless you are bound on cheating. And as you said: I'm not sure I'll do it this year at all. Might as well do the LOC with my customers as this is the way I see this going.

[Paul Czarnecki]

"Last word I received from some of the Team Cold Steel/A-TOM-MIK is we may not even fish the Pro/Am's this year. "

I sincerely hope you will reconsider that Tom. You guys have fished the Niagara tournament for the past several years and done very well so I don't see what the point would be in not fishing them any more.

This rule was adopted by all 4 tournaments in an effort to UNIFY the rules and update them. As was already stated, communication is unenforcible so why clutter things with a rule you can't do anything about.

I, personally, don't mind either way the communication thing. In fact, in the past several years open communication has actually hurt my final standings in Niagara and Orleans because I allowed myself to be influenced by what everyone else was doing. Consequently, I won't be using the "open communication" rule this year. That's the beauty of things like this--you can use it IF you want to. If you don't like open communication--don't use it.

I hope you, Tommy and Hank will reconsider your above statement Tom. Personally, I can't imagine NOT fishing the tournaments and I think you guys feel the same way. I live for the tournaments and will fish them REGARDLESS of whether I agree with a particular rule or not.

At least we don't have a rule where we have to fish NAKED! Think about THAT tonight and try to get to sleep....HA! :shock:

[Yankee Troller]

I have spoke with a few Captains, and they are very upset. A lot of them are thinking about boycotting the entire trail. These are Captains that place in these tournaments too. Im most likely going to fish them, but onyl becasue it is a family thing with my father and my brother.

I too think the communication rule stinks!!!!!!!! You talk about not being able to enforce a rule? A good friend of mine said it like this: We have speed limits, but those arent truly enforceable. But we still have them. What happens when you get caught breaking it? You get penalized. So if you get caught communicating during a non communication tourney you should be disqualified! Its that simple. Observers ar there to protect this rule!

[Chasin Tail]

First off Paul and Tom will back me up on this one we already fish naked, almost. Sreamer has the Pics

In fact, in the past several years open communication has actually hurt my final standings in Niagara and Orleans because I allowed myself to be influenced by what everyone else was doing.

I feel the same way so why are you so for open communications?

Niagara has had the rule in place for several years and we have watched it closely. NEVER has communication played a part of a winning team's strategy

As for this statement, I personally was told by Vito that he helped "put" 6 or 7 fish in Ivans box in 2005 and if I remember right they finished 3&4.

Bob and Bob also talked about working together and where did they finish, oh yeah 1 & 2! If you have two teams working together cover twice as much water that is a strategy to beat the resat of the field and it goes on all the time with open communications.

That's all I have to say, just be careful when your spinning the truth as sometimes it unravels.