Pro-Am update

[Dave B]

Hi Paul, glad you are wintering well.

What Jeff was talking about happened on my boat. The other boat in this case was Shirley B. They were running a deep water king program and we were doing a shallow water Coho program. We limited early and they came in and finished off there limit. I didn't care that the observer on my boat was talking to his team /boat about what we were doing because that was the rule open communication.

If you're suggesting that I as team captain can limit an observers ability to use a cell phone ,blackberry, GPS in Sodus, ect. that opens a whole new kettle of fish. (No pun intended)If the rule is captain to captain only, than that's different. Captains then are in control of who is spoken to on their boat and about what . Maybe we need some clarification?

The biggest issue in Niagara is the border. In 05 there were several teams over the border. That is a problem, an enforcement issue that needs yearly policing. Last year seemed fine but for 10,000 dollars teams will go where the fish are. That problem needs to be fixed !!

Dave B

P.S. I can't imagine fishing naked!! maybe the crew ??

[LIQUID PLUMBER]

I'm for closed communication and it seems,most people are. I don't see how this atracts more teams. I know our team enjoys closed more than open. Why have a rule that the majorty doesn't want? Just because a few might cheat? LET EVERY TEAM FIND AND CATCH THERE OWN FISH! DEL

[Paul Czarnecki]

Didn't mean to start a war here guys---I was just trying to clear some things up.

The no communication rule was adopted by all 4 tournaments due mainly to the comments and survey results from the past two years in all 4 tournaments. All 4 tournament committees had input. I personally saw the survey results and they were overwhelmingly FOR open communication.

Del--simply put, while the majority on this particular site might not want communication that was not the result of the surveys.

Andy--I think Vito might be patting himself on the back a little there. You and I both know that telling someone where and how to fish does not "put fish in the boat". Yvan still had to catch those fish and I seriously doubt that Vito had that much to do with it.

As far as Songin and Stevens working together--they ALWAYS do. They weren't "working together to cover twice as much water"--they were fishing side by side and comparing notes--most of which was done AFTER fishing on day 1. And they each caught their fish with different programs--Stevens ran mostly Revelators while Songin ran spoons and Spin Doctors.

Finally, I never said I was "for" open communication. I've never really cared either way and I have ALWAYS said that I will abide by the rules of the particular tournament I'm fishing. I've fished ALL of them for a number of years (more than I care to count) and always abided by the rules. However, I really honestly believe that closed communication in today's world is an impossibilty. That said, I also feel that there will always be someone who will try to bend the rules to suit their own desires. As a tournament committee we have to do what is best for the GOOD of the tournament. Niagara adopted the open communication thing several years ago in an effort to recruit and retain more new teams into the event and it worked. In the first year, participation went from approximately 60 teams to 80 (I'm not postive of the actual number so please don't crucify me). At the very least, open communication has not hurt the event.

If you guys feel that strongly about this particular rule you need to make your feelings known to the tournament committees. You said you wanted unified rules and the committees agreed on unified rules and now you're not happy about that either. Perhaps if you got involved in the committees yourselves and volunteered to help instead of "armchair quarterbacking", things could be worked out to everyone's satisfaction.

For now, let's just agree to disagree and see how things work out this year. You've all fished Niagara and a lot of you fished Orleans last year where communication was allowed--and DID WELL. Let's try it for this year and if you still don't like it then let's work TOGETHER and change it for next year.

See ya at the Captain's meeting!

Paul

-------I'm still trying to get that picture of Tommy, Andy and Tom standing naked in the back of the boat out of my head. Thanks Andy!

[L&M]

I'm not talking about the rest of the crew, but I'm out with the newly posted rules. This use to be a very prestigious tournament . Not so now with open communication. In the Pro as well as Am what happened to doing it you're own way and see where it falls. I think the board members of this tournament should stop and reconsider there decision. There has been a lot of input on the open communications on a lot of boards including this one and it has been no communications.

[jimski2]

The"No Communications Rules" that I was brought up with were always and still are in existence.

1. You cannot drink beer or drink in another bar with members of another boat's crew.

2. You do not hold the net in the air when reeling in a fish, try to slide it over the transom if you can.

3. Sit down and reel in a fish so no one sees it.

4. Don't tell nobody nothing!

5. Say nothing over the radio, be like a submarine and don't come up with anything. All cell phones are to be left at home to prevent "bad news" from reaching the boat and ruining the day.

6. Violation of any of the rules will result in shunning and banishment to the beach.

It should be noted that these rules are to be followed at all times, not just fishing contests.

[TONYD]

I don't agree with the open communication rule also. The whole reason this tourney was great because everyone went out and tried to beat everyone else,without the help of other fishermen. I have fished oswego and sodus, everytime our team got on the boat we showed the observer are phones were off and they went on the dash of the boat & the radio was set on ch 16. Just my 2 cents.

[Squid]

Although I did not fish any Pro-am's last year prior to that I had fished the Niagara pro am for the prior three years and placed in the money aboard the Reel Excitrment. I am in favor of the open communication rules for the very reason that the comittee stated, it is just too difficult to enforce with modern technology. In past tournaments there has been enough difficulty with acusations for rules that could not be enforced that just leave a bad taste in everyone's mouth. Also I have heard some arguments regarding reasons not to have open communication, one being the observe communicating with his team. This very same problem happened to us the first year of the open communication rule when thrillseekers observered called them after we boated a salmon. I don't believe Vinny even cared what we were doing but wanted to get in our heads. We handled this the second day by asking the observer for his cell phone in the morning and telling him he was not to communicate with any one during the course of the day. His phone was returned at the end of fishing. One other point I would like to make is it has been noted by several people that Bob and Bob worked together during that tournament when we finished 1 & 2. Nothing could be furthure from the truth. We did not share info on or off the water with them during the tournament. Why would we, they beat us and cost alot of money. We did fish next to each other during the tournament, but that was only because they had been on those fish for a week prior to the tournament. another note is peple keep talking about comunicating with non-tourament boats, from prior years this was not allowed with open communication, has this changed? Lastly, a tactic we did use was we teamed up with an ameuter boat. This seems to be the logical thing for everyone to do. Why would you team up with another boat in your class when if they catch fish it is liable to be at your expense. If the ams and the pros team up it helps both of them out.

[Guest noreaster]

Squid

I shot competitive archery for a number of year's and in a pro/am event a pro would shoot with an am and we would combine the score. If this was in place then open comm. between pro and am would be fine. But thing's aren't run this way. so until then, NO OPEN COMM.

If people want too talk do it at home or on the dock. but this tourney is no place for that type of distraction. I don't want too have to listen to some other competitor try his best to give info to another team in some foriegn code. I can't turn off the radio because of tourney rules.

Let's keep the chit chat on the west and the silience on the east, this seem's to work.

[KING ME]

noreaster

Let's keep the chit chat on the west and the silience on the east

Let's all run charters and make $2,000 instead of spending it on gas/entry fees :roll: that is what i am hearing alot of.

[johnbrownt]

First let me say I do not agree with the open comm. rule. But I am not about to say if things do not go my way I am going to take my ball and go home. Last year we only got to fish orleans, this year we are hoping to fish all 4. We always had a great time fishing these tourments, made a lot of new friends also pickup some fishing tips and no rule about comm. is going to change that!!! Hope some of you guys sit down and think about it.

Mailman

[Landing Craft]

What about DSC radios? When programmed properly a simple momentary key press can send your GPS coordinates to your buddies radio. It goes to his radio and only his radio. All he does is look at the radio screen to see where you are. With the volume turned down there would be no noise or interruption of static that anyone would notice.

[janz]

Having fished 1 or more pro ams (AM entry) each year for a few years now I don't see any problem with the open com rule. What I do have a problem with is (and I can't beleive anyone else hasen't brought it up yet), you can fish 2 people on the am side and are allowed 6 rods if the observer on your boat has a valid license????? HUH, so If my team consists of only 2 and I send a paid observer (with a license) to another team of 2 they may use 6 rods in the water. Now they send me an observer that does not have a license and that will limit me to only 4 lines/rods in the water. Now that seems to be pretty crazy or did I missread that new rule. As for open com its pretty exciting and humorous to listen to some of the communications, after all they don't have to be telling the truth. I don't think most teams will leave their area or change what they are using in that area as most have prefished and sorta figured it out. Each area fishes differently most of the time. Let them talk as they do it anyway before or after fishing time, like having your buddy who is not entered in the proam find fish the night before and call your cell and tell you they're in that spot last night and here's what they were hitting. I think it sort of evens up the advantage or makes no difference. Hopefully this year I will be able to get more time off from work (yes thats what pays the bills for me to live and support my boat and tackle) and fish more than the Oswego proam like I did last year. Just having your net flying is like having a huge flag saying "we got em over here" be prepared to be pushed out of your area you had to yourself. So what's the difference using a radio or cell phone.

[Paul Czarnecki]

Hi Janz,

Yep, you read the rule wrong. I should preface what I'm about to say with, nothing OFFICIAL has been published on the rules yet. Everything that is out there is complete speculation based on the results of the committee meeting. That said, what I can tell you is that ALL Am observers are required to have licenses. If you want to only fish 2 members to a team you may still run the 6 rods. If you have 3 members on a team you may only run 6 rods. This rule was put in place because of many requests by (potential) Am participants that said they would fish the tournament if they could do so with just two team members and not feel "undergunned". It was designed to encourage more participation and build the Am Division. By the way, that rule has been used with great success by several tournaments in Michigan for several years now. It doesn't give anyone an advantage or a handicap it simply allows for more participation by more teams without compromising the event (like going to a smaller boat limit).

See ya on the water!

Paul

[janz]

Thanks, that makes more sense and I can say I'm all for it. Although I will more than likely have a 3 person team as it makes boat handling and netting much easier.