PRO AM RULES

[LIQUID PLUMBER]

NOW IS THE TIME TO MAKE CHANGES IN THE RULES NOT NEXT SPRING WHEN IT IS TOO LATE! SO MAKE CONTACTS NOW WITH YOUR THOUGHTS ON WHAT YOU WOULD LIKE CHANGED.. DEL

[Time Out]

Del,

Some of the proposed rules for next year are for the am to go to the old rules.9 fish no culling. The catch is that there would be no spotter except for the top five teams on the second day provided by the tournament. This is what I think has been submitted to them. This was the last I heard.

Any other ideas that anyone has would be appreciated.

Jeff

Cold Water Affair

[LIQUID PLUMBER]

JEff when I was in rodchester to get my check for the fall derby no one had any answers about new rules. I would just like a heads up so we don't get told these are the rules if you don't like them don't fish! I hope all the Am's are involved with the new rules not just a select few. DEL

[Yankee Troller]

No spotter? Idk if I like that...... If everyone else needs one why do the ams get off?

[Time Out]

I guess they think it would allow for more teams to enter because of the difficulties involved with finding a spotter? This is what I heard, anything new is unknown to me.

[Billy V]

So what happens when an AM team outside of the top five comes back on Day #2 and wins the thing with no spotter on board?

[Time Out]

Good question. Remember, just someting they were thinking about, not a new rule. Lets hear some new ideas.

[Tim Bromund]

I think the reasoning behind elimination the observer on the AM side is that if you go back to a 9 fish box, that means an AM team has to be 3 people, so that's 4 on board with an observer. Lets face it, most smaller boats just cannot comfortably fish with 4 on board, so the guys in smaller boats will be less likley to get involved.

I have 24' Thompson and it gets a little crowded on mine with more than 4 on board, I wouldn't want to have done it when I was fishing in my 19' Bayliner.

Tim

[Billy V]

I understand the thinking behind eliminating the observers, but I can see it coming...a boat in 10th place after day one comes back and wins it and has no observer on board...can you imagine the potential problems?

[Fishtails]

Okay, you asked for fresh ideas, did you not?

Getting rid of the observer will increase the number of teams....correct? But....then a small minority of teams will dend the rules....correct?

How about this for a thought for the Am's (and maybe pro too):

9 fish rule for am teams, no throw backs.

In each team packet, include 9 color coded papers with the team name and number printed on it (and whatever else). One set for each day, different color for each day. Document the time caught, weight, and gps location on both the colored team paper and the score sheet (same as always) and have the capt sign both. The score sheet must have all the fish in the order they were caught. Turn all paperwork in at weigh-in.

In addition....take a photo of the fish and a team member holding the color Id paper. Make a rule that you have to take the photo before putting the fish in the box, within 10 min. or something like that. Also, make a rule that every team has to have at least one digital camera on board and a disposable camera as a back up. If requested , Every team must be able to supply a photo of every fish scored (and this is important) with both time and day on the photo. The time and day on the photo must correspond with the time and day on the score sheet. Failure to be able to provide such a photo could result in disqualification.

Just an idea that popped into my head. A no observer rule would increase teams and payouts, we all agree on that I'm sure. Maybe this is a starting point on how to do that and still keep it somewhat honest. I'm sure it can be expanded on plenty...I left plenty of room for impovement

Just an idea

Rod K

Team Lucky Enuff

[Tim Bromund]

I think perhaps a better way than eliminating the observer would be to keep it as it was this year, with 2 man teams possible. However, as with this past year, since the Am observers were required to have a fishing license so the 2 man teams could still run 6 rods, why not make the box 9 fish and let the AM teams keep the observers fish as well? He/she's a licensed person so their 3 fish could legally be taken under DEC regs.

That would allow the box to be put back at 9 fish without handicapping smaller boats/teams.

Tim

[Fishtails]

I'm not opposed at all to keeping the observer. I actually enjoy the dynamic of having them aboard.

That being said, If the main objective is to get more teams involved thus bringing more money into each town during the events, than the no/limited observer rule may be the way to go. I guess it comes down to what the main objective is for changing the rules, if they are to be changed at all.

As for our team, we'd like to fish all 4 next year. That's the plan at the moment. One big obstacle is all the leg work of lining up 4 observers in 4 different towns. That may keep us from getting into all 4. I can definitely see how a no observer rule would increase the number of participating teams. I'd guess it would be significant. Nothing will make everybody happy....we all know that My idea may not be a very good one....I don't know? But I'm trying anyway

Rod

Team Lucky Enuff

[muskybob]

I'd like to see the same rules for each of the Pro Ams. Right now what you can do at one P/A, you can't do at the other and vice versa. It would avoid confusion if they were all the same. I'd also like to see the Captains Meeting location and weigh in stations listed on each Pro Am site. Thanks

[Time Out]

I think the tournament did a great job this year keeping the rules uniform(unless I forgot something). The meeting times would be very nice to know ahead of time and where, adresses are always nice for anyone new.

[Yankee Troller]

Muskybob - There were unified rules in all the pro-ams this year.

Fishtails - wasnt the rule to allow 2 people + the observer to have a license supposed to increase participation? If people wanna fish they will fish. There are many places to find an observer on the internet. The easiest way to convince them is to pay them. WHo wouldnt want to sit on a boat for a weekend and get paid for doing nothing?

AS for the t ourney committee this year I think they did a great job and for the most part everythign ran well. Im getting sick of listening to the rules each time though. If you cant read them on your own then its your fault. Yeah, i dont mind if u have a question on one but we dont need to hear them every tourney. Those meeting last too long!

[ray koziatek]

yea some guy kept asking about the rules at the sodus derby 5 min later he was sleeping ,LP,LP,LP,wake up no one noticed.musky like YT said they were all the same only some old rules were left on the site from previous years ,,,ie sodus,,sitting through the ruls is annoying but if everyone could keep there yaps zipped it wouldnt take long at all ,and for us new guys its a must ,i only fished 1 derby ,that was sodus the rules were fine but with a half naked female observer on board how could you find falt??other than that cute little tatoo on her left ...........nevermind..........i never noticed that either

[Fishtails]

We did pay them YT. Like I said, I like having an observer on the boat and have absolutly no issue with it. Still, I bet you'd get twice the amount of teams without the observer rule. There are plenty of ways to get around it and still keep it honest if you think outside the box.

Getting 4 observers will be a pain and it raises the cost a lot. For new AM teams, I think that's just another deterant. That being said, I loved the Pro Am just the way it was and I wouldn't care if nothing changed at all!! I'll be in at least 2 next year, but we hope to fish 3 or 4.

Ray....you had a female observer?? How'd you stay focused on fishing?

[rail bird]

In my opinion let the am rules go back pretty much to the way they were then have a 3rd division. What we might call a small boat division. basic rules for the small boat divison.

4 rod limit.

cooler check on the way out

no observer

6 fish, no bonus laker

release allowed because how are you going to stop it?

communication same as other divisions.

[get it wet]

I have one concern which I see being a problem. How can you have teams that are sponsored by companies or charter captains fishing in the amateur division. It should be mandatory that these teams be in the Pro division. This would increase the Pro division and also increase the Ams as some teams would fish knowing they don't fish against pros "sandbaggin"

[Rich D]

The rules state that if you or a member of your team is Capt. then you have to fish in the Pro division. As far as having a sponsor, what is wrong with an Am being able to having away of helping with the costs. I agree that there should be some sort of rule that says if you win a certain number of times then that team has to move up to the Pro division.

Has there been any other rumors or anything about new rules yet?

Rich

[get it wet]

Anytime you get paid to fish you are deemed as a pro. Being sponsored falls into this category because you are receiving goods. Just like amateur sports and recieving things, eliminates their eligibility. I just find it funny to see a team all decked out in uniforms coloured up with company logos accepting a cheque for winning the amateur division when ma and pa team is watching. These people entered the amateur division because they are amateurs.

[capt ace]

The Screamer team is not winning because it is being sponsored. They were winning way before that. They are being sponsored because they are good fisherman and they are winners! I know these guys and I know that they work very hard to be the best that they can be. They put in a lot of time prefishing and maximise their time out on the water to put fish in the boat. No one on that team is a Charter Capt. and therefore they are eligible to fish in the amateur division.

It never ceases to amaze me how winners are always being bashed , especially when they continually win. They continually win because they continually work harder and harder to maintain that position. If the bashers would put the effort into learning how to become better fishermen rather than using energy and effort to bash the winners, who knows where they could end up.

Tournaments do and should showcase the best fisherman around the lake. The guys that are getting into a tournament hoping to get lucky and win,probably won't win. Hard work and working knowledge go hand in hand to produce winners. If you want to enter and be "lucky" enough to win you might as well play the lottery.

A lot of guys fish the turnys to socialize and have a good time. That is absolutely cool and there is nothing wrong with that. The cold hard truth of the matter however, is that once you reach a certain level, anyone of the teams at that level are capable of winning. I like the idea of once you win so many times that you should be bumped up to the next level. On the other hand you are punishing people for working real hard and being "TOO GOOD". Where do you draw the line? What about sandbagging? This could go on and on!

Capt. Jimmy Samia

www.acecharters.com

[Rich D]

Jimmy,

I was not putting Dave and his team down. I have a great deal of respect for the Screamer team. He has been able to so much with that team over the years. I was just suggesting that if a team, no matter who it is were to win a certain number of times over a certain period, then maybe the committee should look at moving them up to the Pros. again, this is just a thought, will not affect how I enter. When ever you can compete with people that are better, you tend to fish harder and look to learn more. It is going to be curious to see what they do for next year.

Rich

[motoman]

just a look from another veiw.....i run a kids atv race team and do alot of traveling around the U.S and we have a ton of sponcers that help us get there and keep the ATV"s running good . but one thing is for sure no matter how much money we have there not going too beat the pros ,reason being they just don"t have the seat time in , How ever as they climb the ranks there is a class bump up rule at the end of the year if they win a sertian amount of points that MAKES them move up a class. I now this has nothing too do with fishing but if you look at it as a rule thing and compair them you could kind of incorporate them becouse the AMA has had the same problems with better teams holding back on moving riders up and it hurts the sport for the newer guys trying too come up witch in turn slows the # of people too sign up ! we also have rule books that are gaven out when you sign up that i have read 50 time and now all i do is check the new rules on line too stay up too date but any track same rules any fishing hole should be same rules..workfishraceworkfishfishraceworkfishfishworkracerace..my life :lol:if i could only get paid too fish & race or race & fish maybe i"m onto something RACEFISHING , dam someone got it already and called it the pro-am derby.

[get it wet]

I was not even mentioning names at all. It was a general comment.

Having said that and again nothing against screamer, if you are walking the walk why not fish the pro division. Why not? because the rules alloy this to happen. If amateur teams were true amateur teams they woulnd't be sponsored more than the pro teams. Please do not take this out of context, all I am saying is if the rules stated that if you are affiliated, sponsored, employed or associated with a tackle manufacturer you are deemed a professional. This would make guys either jump to pro or become amateurs again. Unlike racing, being affialiated with a tackle manufacturer does help you on fish.