fly leader break offs?

[hawkeye625]

We had 2 majors breakoff this weekend and both were right at the hooks on the fly. The fly came back all tangled up in the 50lb floro but no hooks.

Any ideas on what might be the problem? With the fly coming back I'm thinking the line must have been twisted up before the line broke, otherwise the fly would've been gone too.

Both were brand new leaders so I'm pretty sure there were no knicks in the line.

Thanks,

Jeff

[UNREEL]

We think the fly leader gets a little slack and as the fish thrashes the line gets jammed in the crotch of the treble. Some say super glue in the treble helps this. If you tie your own a piece of .125 tubing on the treble shank helps.

[Miss em]

Here is a video we put together on the topic...

http://www.fishdoctorcharters.com/videos/video1W.html

[jekyll]

I wrap my leader around the trebbles twice before snelling. Fills the gap better than 1 wrap. Stops this sort of break off.

[hawkeye625]

Do tie my own and wrap the tag end before snelling. Maybe we'll try the glue or tubing.

The only other thing I can think of is maybe I didn't wet the floro on a couple of the leaders before pulling the snell tight. Might be a weak point.

[fast and silver]

gonna give you the best advice, definatly is the leader getting caught in the treble like the others say, but to fix the problem take a small rubber band i prefer red or blue, and wrap in and around all the hooks on the treble, by doing that you are closing the openings between the hooks on the treble so the line doesnt get caught in them and cause a nick, now as for red and blue it gives a little attractor also, good luck

[adam2000]

Sounds like maybe you sent them out too fast and the treble hooked the leader. I don't see why it would be all twisted up if it was just a break off. Any break off that broke above the single hook I've ever had left me with nothing but a piece of flouro. If you tie your own how far between the 2 hooks are you making them

[ Post made via Android ]

[jekyll]

Cohos are the usual suspect when flies that come back in a ball.

[hawkeye625]

For the gap between hooks, bend of the octopus to eye of the treble with beads filling the gap.

Definately not coho taking the hooks. Both fish took over 600 ft on 1st run.

Deploy dipsys with drag set tight enough they go out slowly and often times draw strikes while going out. I did notice a little curl in the leader before it happened the 1st time but found no kinks and didn't think to re tie a new one...could've had the hooks catch the line I guess.

I'm thinking bad floro...1st trip using these leaders tied over the winter...going to use old leaders next trip and see if that helps.

We did manage a dozen or so teenagers and 1 pushing 24lbs on the same setups, but the big ones got away .

Thanks for all the input.

[Paul Czarnecki]

Personally I think you're overthinking it. Many times a king will charge the boat and when you are unable to keep up with him the fly leader will become entangled with the spin doctor. The spinnie will continue to spin and turn the fly and the fly leader into a god awful mess. Breakoffs are common at this point and always look exactly as you describe.

I notice this phenomenon a LOT when running 10 inch spinnies deep on a rigger. The larger spinny seems to cause the fish to rush up causing the leader to tangle.....often before the angler even gets to the rod.

While some of the "remedies" mentioned here could be helpful (at times) I don't think there is anything that could fix what the actual problem was----crazy fish that wrapped your spinny and fly into a ball.

[hawkeye625]

Thanks Paul, that makes me feel a little better about the whole situation. Maybe overthinking like you said. Just want to eliminate any possible bad situations. I've donated too much tackle to Lake O over the past couple years and sure would like to boat a 30 pounder.

Seems like the biggest fish keep getting the best of us and it sure is heartbreaking to battle a fish 40+ minutes and come up empty, then do it again 15 minutes later and have the same thing happen all over again.

Guess that's why it's called fishing and not catching.

[Paul Czarnecki]

Thanks Paul, that makes me feel a little better about the whole situation. Maybe overthinking like you said. Just want to eliminate any possible bad situations. I've donated too much tackle to Lake O over the past couple years and sure would like to boat a 30 pounder.

Seems like the biggest fish keep getting the best of us and it sure is heartbreaking to battle a fish 40+ minutes and come up empty, then do it again 15 minutes later and have the same thing happen all over again.

Guess that's why it's called fishing and not catching.

The biggest fish of the day is ALWAYS the one that got away...

I had a client fight a fish for 20 minutes on Sunday only to have the fish break the fly leader in exactly the manner you described. This fish was beat, on its side on the surface and coming in and was pushing 30 pounds. It took me 40 minutes to untangle the mess and salvage the fly. Sometimes "stuff" happens.

Stay tight to the fish, fight it as best you can and hope for the best. We are dealing with the biggest fish of the decade right now and they are getting bigger so prepare to sacrifice some tackle. When everything goes right and you boat that giant it will all be worth it.

[Mortigan]

Hypothetical - could you still net that fish legally right at that moment?

You're swiping with the net as the line breaks and you still manage to get it in the net. Would it have to be released, technically? Could it still be counted as a Derby or Pro Am fish?

[jekyll]

Hypothetical - could you still net that fish legally right at that moment?

You're swiping with the net as the line breaks and you still manage to get it in the net. Would it have to be released, technically? Could it still be counted as a Derby or Pro Am fish?

This is a difficult question which may get you in trouble by interpretations of gray areas. You are required to catch fish by angling. The regs define angling as:

Angling means taking fish by hook and line. This includes bait and fly fishing, casting, trolling and the use of landing nets to complete the catch...

Once the fish drops off the line, you are no longer angling. A fish that drops and floats and is then netted, is taken by netting. The angling stops when the fish is disconnected from the hook. You are not likely to be cited by a warden unless he is in your boat or close enough to clearly see the hooks came out before you netted the fish but, observers in a touranment would need to certify the fish was legally caught by angling. In a non-observed tournatment, no one would know unless someone on your boat bragged about the valiant struggle. This happened in a tournament on Michigan last year. The team didn't enter what would have been the winning fish.

[Mortigan]

That's about what I figured - thanks for the confirmation.

[Gill-T]

The theory that the leader can get caught behind the treble is almost physically impossible unless the hook is thru a small piece of skin at the tip of the nose or bottom lip and the hook can cam/rotate back on itself. For any hook inside the mouth, the leader could never gain a loop behind the hook to jam as some describe. This time of year we hear the same complaints as mature fish start to show their pronounced teeth. Slide your finger across their teeth next time you a major......and enjoy the paper cut! Try tying some single treble leaders with braid (without beads) to a barrel swivel to fit under the fly and your problem will be solved.

[GAMBLER]

I have seen a lot of flies that have frays from a bad unhooking job on the previous fish. Always check the leaders near the hooks after pliers were used.

[hermit]

Once the fish drops off the line, you are no longer angling. A fish that drops and floats and is then netted, is taken by netting. The angling stops when the fish is disconnected from the hook.

How about if the fish is within the net but still in the water when it gets loose?

The only step left is lifting the net out of the water with the fish in it. Haven't had any breakoffs but several times have had the hook pop out at this point when jigging for lakers. This should still be legal, right? Thanks.

[Missdemeanor]

Absolutely legal.....

The last few kings Ive caught have had the flies totally down their throats.....of course the 50 lbs leader was shredded. Not much you can do with that....If they want to Chew them that bad then, it is what it is.......

[Yankee Troller]

I would like to add my .02$ to this. We RARELY get bit off, and we fish flies a lot. We run a #2 treble and a 5/0 Octopus above it. We use the 8mm beads and put 3 in between the two hooks. If the bottom of your octopus hook is at or right above the eye on the treble this leaves minimal room for the flouro in between the hooks to get jammed anywhere in the bottom of the treble, which leads to the flouro breaking and you coming back with a fly and an octopus hook. So, paying attention to how you tie your harness's really matters. This also helps prevent the fish's teeth getting in between the hooks and chewing up the flouro.

Problem #2 - pay attention when unhooking your fish! I always check out peoples gear when I'm standing on their boats shooting the breeze with them at the dock. I see this a lot! Your pliers can nick the flouro giving it a weak spot when your unhooking fish. All it takes is a fish flopping around on the deck while your trying to unhook it and your pliers can do a job on the flouro. A good fish can turn that weak spot into a missed opportunity.

[hawkeye625]

Great replies guys, thanks for all the input.

[Silver Fox]

I would like to add my .02$ to this. We RARELY get bit off, and we fish flies a lot. We run a #2 treble and a 5/0 Octopus above it. We use the 8mm beads and put 3 in between the two hooks. If the bottom of your octopus hook is at or right above the eye on the treble this leaves minimal room for the flouro in between the hooks to get jammed anywhere in the bottom of the treble, which leads to the flouro breaking and you coming back with a fly and an octopus hook. So, paying attention to how you tie your harness's really matters. This also helps prevent the fish's teeth getting in between the hooks and chewing up the flouro.

I can't remember the last bite off I had and this is exactly how I rig mine. Also everyone that fishes with me is "trained" to take a minute and look at the leader after unhooking.

[Big Dave]

The theory that the leader can get caught behind the treble is almost physically impossible unless the hook is thru a small piece of skin at the tip of the nose or bottom lip and the hook can cam/rotate back on itself. For any hook inside the mouth, the leader could never gain a loop behind the hook to jam as some describe. This time of year we hear the same complaints as mature fish start to show their pronounced teeth. Slide your finger across their teeth next time you a major......and enjoy the paper cut! Try tying some single treble leaders with braid (without beads) to a barrel swivel to fit under the fly and your problem will be solved.

I have had a fish come off and got the rig back only to find the fly leader jammed in the crotch of the treble. After that we checked a "bite off" leader that was on the dash and the end of the leader had a curve to it that fit the wire size of the hook. I don't know how they manage to do it, but they do! If you put the treble in a piece of wood and pull a piece of 50# leader into the crotch of the hook , it cuts it quite nicely. We take a small piece of line and tie it to one of the hook bends and weave it in and out to fill the crotch of the hook . Then tie it off to the hook bend again. Haven't had a "bite off " in many years. This happens with the cutbait heads too. It would be nice to see a vidio showing how they manage to hit the fly and tangle the line up.