Unenforceable rules you say

[Chasin Tail]

The largest highest paying tournament out there is the BASS Tournament Trail.

Do you know what one of the rules are?

The tournament waters shall be off-limits to all Pro contestants 30 days prior to the first practice day in all Elite Series, Bassmaster Majors, and Bassmaster Classic events unless otherwise notified by BASS. During the 30 day off limits periods, other than using publicly-available information (e.g. newspaper and Internet reports) Pro competitors cannot solicit, receive, or gather any information via phone, electronic devices, or any other means about locating or catching fish on tournament waters. THERE SHALL BE NO EXCEPTIONS. For a first offense, the competitor will be disqualified from the tournament. For a second offense, the competitor will lose his eligibility for the following year's Elite Series events. During practice and competition Pro anglers cannot solicit, receive, or gather any information from co-angler contestants in the tournament. NO EXCEPTIONS.

Now if you want a rule that can not be enforced, how about that one? If I was fishing this tournament and wanted to cheat, I could hop in a small boat and launch anywhere on the lake.

Who would ever know?? This is in a Tournament series that pays out millions of $$

Talk about UNENFORCEABLE

BUT IT IS THE RULE! PERIOD!!

Here is another rule they have:

During the official competition days of the tournament, a competitor may not use a CB radio, a VHF marine-band radio, a cellular phone, or any other type of communication device.

Maybe someone should tell BASS their rules are unenforceable.

[KING ME]

[L&M]

Andy: What are you tring to say here? I think I kn where your going with it. But?

[KING ME]

Seeing how this is a HOT topic, figured I would ask. I know that this will probably pee some people off but .....

All this talk about not being able to enforce a rule so why have it.....

What are the committees plans on doing to "rule breakers"? Is it going to be like other times -he said/she said, he is a big public figure, let's make a deal on the winner - like in the past or are there going to be some REAL enforcement?

Even thou I have only fished a few pro/ams I have fished MANY other tournaments including B.A.S.S. and FLW. In the others, people are "scared to cheat" because they know that something is going to happen to anyone that gets caught. From what I have seen/heard with the pro/ams, nothing happens so people know in the back of their minds that they can do whatever they want. Proof can be seen in 2005 sodus(sorry Jerry :? ), 2006 niagara and so on.....

[Paul Czarnecki]

Hi Steve,

The enforcement policies for the rules were adopted last year as a result of the "incidents" you mentioned. If you read a copy of last year's rules for Niagara and Orleans you will see that things have been pretty much buttoned up as far as enforcement is concerned.

Where actual cheating is involved actual LAW ENFORCEMENT is employed. The rules state that if the Tournament Director feels that laws have been broken and the issue cannot be resolved (ie. competitor disqualifies himself) the case will be turned over to the appropriate law enforcement agency for prosecution (DEC, Sheriff's Office, State Police, etc).

This system worked well in both the Niagara and Orleans tournaments last year and will work even better now that all 4 tournaments have adopted the same policy.

Hope that answers your question.

We are working on the rules right now and they will be out publicly very soon.

C ya at the captain's meeting.

Paul

[KING ME]

Paul,

I was at the Niagara last year but do to team members in the hospital and other issues we did not finish the tournament. You are correct that alot of "loop holes" and "issues" where addressed and efforts where made to coorect/enforces the rules.

BUT again there was a problem at the Niagara with gps corrindates and weigh in sheets. Only 8 (i believe) contestants followed the rules. Granted you can not discalify the entire tournament but not penalties where inflicted on anyone. So again RULES that can be enforced, truely where not in the end.

So basicaly what example is being set is this. Rules that can not be enforced will be changed or dropped. Rules that can be enforced will be over looked, adapted or compromised. Correct me if I am wrong.

Not trying to start a fight but this is the impression ALOT of people are getting. I enjoyed competing in the tournaments that I have fished in the pro/am curcuit, but I am second guessing rather if I want to engage in them anymore.

[Paul Czarnecki]

You are partially correct Steve. In Niagara, where the new GPS rules were first implemented, there was a lot of confusion and mistakes on the part of both the committee and the competitors. Not everyone paid attention in the captain's meeting (big surprise there) and, as a result, only 8 people had their scoresheets correct.

Because the committee decided that it was as much to blame for the confusion as the competitors it was decided (on the advice of the County Sheriff) to simply advise the competitors that they did not follow directions and to allow the scores to count.

What the committee should have done is include a sample scoresheet with the packets that clearly demonstrated what needed to be done. Mike Waterhouse did that in the Orleans tournament the following weekend and there were no problems.

Please keep in mind that any actions taken by the tournament committees are done so for the good of the tournaments and often involve decisons that, at first, might not be very popular. Sometimes we need to be protected from ourselves.

Everyone wanted unified rules. We finally have them. We also have some VERY exciting changes for the Challenge Cup and the Amateur Divisions. PLEASE, let's all try to calm down and wait for everything to be publicized. They will be easy to understand and follow.

Try it for a year---if you still don't like something let the committees know and we will change it for next year. Taking your ball and going home and never playing again is not going to help anything.

[KING ME]

Paul- your fingers must hurt.

the changes to the Am. sound good, I have not made a decision either way about the changes to the cup - but it sounds good overall. The open communication SUCKS but ......

My biggest concern is the fact of the rules - making changes do to "can't enforce" and the enforcing what is in place.

I understand that alot of people are "lawyer/sue happy" and that you must protect yourselves BUT when a contestants signs a rule sheet/entry form the tournament committe has final say in enforcement and penalties. The let's make a deal or rule change approach just (overall) encourages people to bend the rules.

It is like a bunch of bullies in school - you kick the biggest ones ass and everyone else leaves you alone. A couple of stiff penalties and people will wake up alot faster.

[chinook]

I have been fishing the great lakes for 28 years now. Mainly Ontario along with Erie. Reason being, it provides great "recreation",along with solitude and a sense of accomplishment after having a decent day. Irregardless, the time spent with friends and family on these outings, are memories to be treasured a lifetime, whether a good day numbers wise, or days when fish are tough to come by. I do it for also for relaxation and to get away from some of lifes' hassles that we all face. My point being, that is one reason why I elect to participate in some, but not all of these derbies. No matter what the outcome, there will always be suspicion by some as to the results. As far as the L.O.C and the Orleans and others, where the big fish for the most part take honors, that is where I concentrate with my time off. Not to say that there is suspicion with these. For there has been in the past. It just seems like these Pro-Am's be it on Ontario, Michigan,( as mentioned on the G.L.A. site) are somehow surrounded with controversy. However, I do know that they provide a great format to learn and share info. So whether you fish these or not, is of ones' choosing. Best of luck to those who choose to do so.

[Paul Czarnecki]

Steve

You're right---I'm getting tired of typing. This will be my last post on this for a while because I really need to get to work finalizing these rules and, somehow, have to find a way to make some money this week. You think open communication sucks? Volunteering sucks MORE!

I couldn't agree with you more about the enforcement of the rules. Actually that was the very reason I decided to get involved in the ProAm committees several years ago. There has always been a lot of waffling, flip flopping and indecision when it comes to things like this. "We don't want to offend anyone" is something heard a lot in areas such as this. That is why it is SO important to have a unified set of rules that everyone can understand and abide by. If you take away the questionable ones and everyone understands everything then AND ONLY THEN can you enforce the rules with any kind of authority.

Lawyers LOVE cases of "mistreatment" or "unfair policies" being imposed on the little guy. Its a sad fact but ALL of the tournaments are on a VERY thin line when it comes to community support. Newfane Business Assoc., Oak Oarchard Business Assoc. and the counties of Wayne and Oswego are allowing us to put on these tournaments this year. How much support do you think they would give us if they had a pending lawsuit because someone was disqualified because of a technicality or an "unclear" rule and decided to get a lawyer? With a $10,000 purse in all 4 tournaments this year it could happen. Lawyers have been known to sue for a heck of a lot less. Personally, I would rather deal with a rule or a situation I wasn't particularly fond of than not have a tournament to fish at all.

If anyone has any other comments, concerns or questions please feel free to call me, Bob Cinelli or your tournament directors. Simply sitting back and saying you're not going to participate because you don't like the rules isn't helping anyone. Get involved. Volunteer to help at the tournament or on the committee itself.

NOW.....back to the rules.

Paul

[KING ME]

Paul,

I hear you on the Volunteering - i have/do sit on a number of commite/clubs involving the lake - alot of time and effort. Before I go any further, I want to thank the entire tournament committeee -withoout any of you guys we would not even be having this discussion.

Last ? - if enough people/feedback was recieved by the tournament committe would it be to late to change the "communication rule"? Let's say if last years entrants where contacted and majority voted against the rule change?

[HIGHWAY]

Hello King Me and Paul. Dave here with Double Play II. I have volunteered with Niagara Pro-Am for the past few years. Also have been in contact with Bob Cinelli and Legislature John Syracuse reguarding this coming years Pro-Am's. I'm aware of the changes that are going to take place in 2007. One thing i would like to see and i will let my opinion be known is that i think the captains meeting should be inside. Back when the Pro-Am's started we held the meeting at a local fire companys hall. When outside this past Niagara tourney you had 10-15 different conversations going on while the committee people were trying to go over the rules etc.. Not everyone paid attention. The hall would be smaller,fire company could sell food and drinks make a little money and the meeting would be confied to a room, not half of Krull park. Just my opinion!

[KING ME]

Hey pete - not sure if you viewed a poll we posted here on the communication -here is a link

http://www.lakeontariounited.com/forum2 ... ight=#1161

Highway - I agree with an indoor meeting - Sodus goes pretty good at the fire hall.