First coho (prev. "king"), so much work! Advice sought! ...

[genEus]

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It took a LOT of work to get this guy! After 2 unsuccessful trips, yesterday was mine and my dad’s first success in Ontario. First ever king (although by the size of him, I’d say he was still just a prince. Har har). I feel like we’re complete beginners once again with our pitiful success rate. Can someone make some suggestions on improvement please? And, based on my past experiences here, I know you will, so thanks in advance!

We left Sodus Bay around 9am yesterday morning and went north straight off the lighthouse. Set up in about 100 FOW. Wind was out of the SE so we trolled with the wind for a couple hours since we didn’t feel like crashing into the waves. This was our 4 rod setup:

1) Downrigger with 100ft spooled out and a 12lb ball dragging a green/silver NK42 spoon (don’t know the name, bought second hand) about 20ft behind

2) Downrigger with 120ft spooled out and a 12lb ball dragging a black/silver NK42 spoon (don’t know the name, bought second hand) about 20ft behind

3) 1 dipsy on 2 setting to one side, out 300ft with a white w/green dot spindoc and a white/green fly

4) 1 dipsy on 2 setting to the other side, out 250ft with a white/white spindoc and a white/green fly

Speed on the display was 2.2 - 2.8 MPH. We trolled at that speed to about 220-240 FOW, leaving about 15 boats around the 140-160FOW line (perhaps that was our first mistake). We turned around and starting trolling into the waves, going roughly SE. We were already talking about heading back, as it’s been 3 hours with no hits, as around the 140FOW mark the white w/green dot spinny hits and the fight was very quick, after a couple minutes this 9lb-er was in the boat. I checked and redeployed a couple of the lines, switching one of the downriggers to pulling a spindoc/fly combo and putting an NK42 on a dipsy now. We trolled aimlessly in around 130-160FOW for another hour and headed back in. 3 outings, hours on the water, gallons of fuel, tangles, lost tackle, and this is all we get… I suppose 1 is better than none as they say, but can someone advise please? We’re not total novices but I feel like, especially after reading some of the reports here, we could do a lot better than this.

Thanks!

[Mortigan]

Congratulations on your first king.

The best advice we got was to hitch a ride (charter or otherwise) with someone more knowledgeable.

I'd done all the recommended reading (Charlie owns the boat & I do the research), then we did a spring charter and it started making sense. We put some time in on the water, caught a few fish and then did a summer charter - almost completely different type of fishing. More time on the water (a few more fish), lots of questions and a couple trips with experienced friends and it makes more sense.

Honestly, we're still not very good but we've improved, caught some decent fish and I'm expecting more consistancy next season. See about riding with someone else - I've been offered more opportunities than I've been able to accept. Hope to change that next year

[genEus]

Congratulations on your first king.

The best advice we got was to hitch a ride (charter or otherwise) with someone more knowledgeable.

I'd done all the recommended reading (Charlie owns the boat & I do the research), then we did a spring charter and it started making sense. We put some time in on the water, caught a few fish and then did a summer charter - almost completely different type of fishing. More time on the water (a few more fish), lots of questions and a couple trips with experienced friends and it makes more sense.

Honestly, we're still not very good but we've improved, caught some decent fish and I'm expecting more consistancy next season. See about riding with someone else - I've been offered more opportunities than I've been able to accept. Hope to change that next year

Got room?

[Skippers Trophy 01]

Sodus has been a little tough of late, seems like folks have been finding better fishing evenings though.

A few things:

Do you have a probe? -water on the inside was over 70 degrees at 100' down, too warm. Needed to go deeper or find the few colder pockets of water.

Can run two more rods (if two people in the boat), might as well get them out there, even if one is a leadcore or copper, or stacked on the DR.

I assume you have a fish finder, were you marking the fish we were at 90+ down? If so, need to get more than 100' of DR cable out to get that deep with a 12 lb. weight.

Anyway, congrats on your first, hang in there, they will come.

[BALLS DEEP]

I was out there yesterday at daylight and it started out super slow. Tons of boat traffic and everyone on the radio was saying how slow it was. Marking tons of fish but apparently they were a little spooked by the boat traffic or not feeding. We stuck it out and around noon were were marking tons of bait and lots of good size fish. From noon to about 4 all of us stayed pretty busy with fish and clearing the rods. Like Skipper asked if you had a probe. After using one I would never go back to guestimating again. So handy and tells you your two most important things; speep and temp at your lures. sounds like you guys are on the right track though. Every time I go out I learn something new. One thing though, I know if I hooked that fish on the spinny and fly I would look for my next closest thing to what it hit. Like everyone says "the fish will tell you what they like" Change colors,speed, sizes, depths, and experiment a little with whats working and whats not.

[Mortigan]

Sorry - I'd have offered to begin with but my fishing buddy (the boat owner) is in Canada, hunting bear. I'm in need of a lift myself for the next few weeks.

From what you've written, you're making the same basic choices I would have made. I think our crucial need for next season is down speed and temp - we just can't dial in a presentation if I don't know both. The currents have been severe this year and I don't have enough time on the water to estimate speed by rigger cable angle or dipsy rod bend.

Just guessing - experiment with your speed, direction and depths. I've seen regular reports of guys running anywhere between 2.0 and 4.0 mph gps speed to get a lure speed of about 2.5 - all depends on the current at that moment. That king hit after you reversed heading, which presumably changed your speed, also affecting your depth. Too many variables already - I'd have left the presentation alone without another hit or two. Did you turn and retrace your path (both directions) after you went back to no action?

[erupprecht]

This is my first year fishing for Kings in deep water off Lake Ontario too. I started the year with two riggers and two wire dispys based upon my homework. I have had sucess everytime I have been out (probably just ended my luck with those words...but), I'm out of I-Bay and my advice is to read this site daily, read books like (Keating on Kings or any Dan Keating book and practice a couple different things at a time until it works. I ran only one dipsy this Sunday and it produce a 12lb and 29lb king in 4 hours on the water, point being sometimes more rods are less effective. Again no expert here and listen to all these members, since they have helped me TONS! I boated 15-20 kings this season! Start slow, safe and methodical - my two cents.

[troubles]

GenEus,

Best advice is take a Charter with a Good Captain and tell him you want to learn.Best Money you'll ever spend.If your selected port is Sodus give Ryan at Fishing Magician a call. Buy the way you should be very proud of that Coho Salmon your holding.It's one of the very nice one's were getting this year.Good Luck.

[Mortigan]

+1 (on both counts)

[TyeeTanic]

I agree an educated trip with a charter will help you dial in quick. Do the reading first and then go out so things click together in your mind. Read books from Dan Keating (don't know if I've spealt his name right).

Just know there are many parameters that affect fishing, and the experience is in understanding the conditions on a day and how to zero in on an attractive setup (from the fish's perspective). The following are key parameters in my mind, but definitely not close to everything:

- down speed (this is the speed of the water passing the lure/fly and includes the effects of water currents).

- lure/fly color

- temperature of water the lure is at 45F - 50F, preferably at 48F. You need to find what depth this temp is at and that determines where you set your downriggers or dipseys at.

- tackle setup (like leader length and weight, use of spin doctors / flashers).

It is all about putting an attractive setup in the zone where the fish are hanging out.

Mark

[genEus]

you should be very proud of that Coho Salmon your holding.It's one of the very nice one's were getting this year.Good Luck.

How can you tell it's a Coho??

Thanks all for the replies so far... Intended to go on a charter earlier this year but had some decent success in the fingerlakes - not great by any means - but enough to keep myself happy/busy. Looks like Lake O is a completely different beast. Just really hard to justify the cost of those charters, even though I really have no doubt that they are everything people say they are.

[Mortigan]

PM sent

[Reel Outlaw]

Nice coho

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[fast and silver]

This weekend was tough, that being said if you had a probe it would have been spittle better for you, we had temp in oswego at 118 feet down, are riggers were parked at 135 to 155, are divers were on 1 setting 325 and 350 on 3 1/2 setting at 425 and 455, chrome and green were the ticket bit when we had are white out we did take one on a white with green dot but the chrome was better so everything went to that, we did 13 on Sunday and did take 2 out of temp which at the cleaning station had loose eggs in them, speed was difficult eco of a down current in oswego, probe was worth its weight in gold for the speed alone, he's my advice don't get comfortable in the boat, work change things around, especially when you have fish on the graph and not on the pole, it changes by hour of what they want so don't be afraid to put stuff on and try it, good luck, and in the coming weeks guys will say you may need a probe for temp, but definitely are gonna need for speed

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[Mortigan]

you should be very proud of that Coho Salmon your holding.It's one of the very nice one's were getting this year.Good Luck.

How can you tell it's a Coho??

http://www.seagrant.sunysb.edu/glsportf ... io2012.pdf

Anal fin shape, tail shape and gum color. I hadn't noticed - which shows how new I am.

[Mortigan]

Good fishing with you yesterday and thanks to Carpedium for the invitation. Good luck out there.

[rshubuck]

Congrats on the fish. Do you have a downspeed and temp probe on a rigger? Probably one of the most productive pieces of electronics you can have on board. I like to run 2.1mhp to 2.7mhp down at the ball. Your surface speed usually GPS would be .5mhp more but I sometimes see it over 1mph faster then my downspeed. So I would try and speed up just a bit and give it a try. Just got to find out what they like. If you get a fish to hit on a turn and its a an outside rod then they most likely like the speed. If it was on an inside rod they you might want to slow down. I think the thermocline was 80 to 90ft down yesterday out of Fairhaven. Hope this helps.

[genEus]

Good fishing with you yesterday and thanks to Carpedium for the invitation. Good luck out there.

Right back at ya! Nice to finally meet some members of the forum to put a face to the username. Thanks to you and Carpedium for an awesome trip! I had a blast and sure learned a lot!!

Do you have a downspeed and temp probe on a rigger?

No. I think another several hundred dollars worth of electronics, between a good fish finder/gps unit and a down speed/temp probe is in order. Will be licking my wounds from all the spending I did this (my first) season over the winter and hopefully start the next season with some new toys. Went out yesterday with my dad and was completely miserable with the worthless 10 year old fish finder we have now.

[rshubuck]

It certainly cost a lot of money for gear but worth it. Just take your time. You will get there. I'm still working on paying off my debt But it is worth it

[Guest]

The experience is in the understanding of the situation of a day, as well as how to zero in on an attractive set...