Where are the big kings???

[RodBuster]

I would like to hear theories on why a 31 pound king won the spring derby and the biggest fall derby king was only 4 pounds bigger? I know it sounds absurd, but did all those big kings get taken in the spring? Lots of big ones caught then.

[Landshark]

Yes, where are all the guys preaching 40's

[ Post made via Android ]

[Big Water]

I'm wondering the same thing. I will say that only one of the last 25 kings I caught out of the Wilson, Niagara, Olcott areas was a female. Where are the BIG egg laden females? Are they coming later?

[Tim Bromund]

If I had to guess, I would say that with every other aspect of the season being a month or so ahead of schedule all year, the kings, which quite a few were already bronzing up in July, went into pre-spawn mode and off the major feed a lot earlier as well.

Just a thought.

Tim

[Captain Carl Bish]

The winner of the Toronto derby was about a pound bigger than the fall LOC derby at 36+.

Has anyone actually stopped to think about how much of the lake is NOT fished? I only fished a limited amount of days this year, but I must say that I did not have to dodge any boats until this last derby. (If I would have fished 1 mile west or north I still wouldn't have had to dodge any.)

What are the chances of such a limited number of people in such a small space catching a very small number of mutant 4.5 year old or sterile fish?

Think about it would a sterile king be in 100 fow staging to run the river or would it be out in the open lake in 42-48 degree water eating till it could hold no more bait?

How many 30 - 34 pound kings are in the lake? How many 35 - 40? 40+? I would say by the time you get to 40 + you are in the 10ths of a percent; making no one catching one during a derby a very safe bet!!!

If one was thinking 40 pounders were going to find the leaderboard then I would guess with some statistical confidence that same person might also play scratch offs and the lottery on a regular basis. If one thought he was going to catch it .............. well I would suspect a gambling addiction.

[GAMBLER]

I agree with Carl. Lots of water was left alone for 2 reasons 1) the gas prices and 2) the inside bite was more consistant this year than most.

[Captain Carl Bish]

Brian,

I thought of you typing that post..........it is just plain smart to target hog TROUT like you do...Congrats!!! Your name is not very descriptive of your methodology, but don't fix what ain't broken!!!

[jason]

this yrs salmon stop eating early. the 1st week of august when i was filleting salmon, my clients ask to cut open the stomach of the mature kings. when i looked at them they were already hard. last week some of the females meat was already white instead of pink which is another indication they stopped eating early.

[bear]

I agree with Gambler and Capt Carl. I would also like to add that the warm weather made your big Kings get off their feed earlier. That's why so many of the bigger ones were being caught in closer. When they get off their feed they loose wt fast. Also, everybody is fishing the same areas which is only a very small area of the lake. Your bigger salmon caught earlier in the year, your big spring salmon, your big June & July summer salmon those are your high 30's or 40's in the fall. We have more salmon in the lake than we ever have and the bait is healthy. That's why you're seeing large lake trout, large brown trout, large steelhead. You're seeing less steelhead because you have to travel more for them during the year and because of gas prices people don't want to do that. Everybody was targeting salmon this fall because they wanted a 40 pounder. I have fished the lake since they were introduced to the lake. I fished the very first ESLO. We got better fishing now than we ever have. People should be very happy with the way the lake is producing. We have a world class fishery. There's nothing wrong with this lake if 40 pounders are getting popped. A 30 pounder will give you as much fight and it's a trophy out of the great lakes. We should be happy with what we have and try to make sure it stays this way and be more worried about invasive species and water levels. What's going to be done.

[Sweet Caroline]

Years ago a 40 plus pounder almost always won the ESLO/LOC. In fact, I think one year in the late 90's there were 8 or 9 entered over 40. I guess I have to ask what has changed between then and now that we are not consistently seeing fish that large anymore?

DR

[BSmaster]

I am gonna take a wild guess that you will need to wait to see what turns up at the spawning run. I hooked into 30# plus salmon(s) last year (tribs) but it is a little hard to land that much muscle on an 8lb tippet. The gents doing their version of good touch bad touch up at the choking points probably get these fish and think nothing about the significant size. They just tie them up with the same rope they drag their deer out of the woods and go home to the smoker. See what is happening here and relay it back to your thoughts about summer. Obviously hindsight won't help you win the derby but may help you win in the future years. I agree with the thoughts above too.

I am gonna try to run 10lb (instead of tippets this year because I believe that the run will be stronger with bigger fish this year and I really would like to land a 30lb + male for the wall. The challenge. First to entice the beast into taking the bait and 2nd, most important, landing him. Highly anticipating that first Bobber drop!

[Tim Bromund]

A-Lure-A, that was 1999,

the top 11 kings were all over 40, 20th place was 38 and change,

Steelhead were huge that year also, top 11 were over 20 and 20th place was over 18 if I recall correctly.

It would be nice if Dave Chilson could put some of those historic LOC results back up in their website.

Tim

[Yankee Troller]

Check out this 29.5lb fish we took on Sunday. Its the one on the right. That fish hasn't eaten in a while! Check out how big his head is and how skinny his body is. He was over 30lbs month ago easily. A lot of the fish we have been cleaning for the last few weeks have had hard/tight stomachs. I am really disappointed that more big Kings weren't taken in the Fall LOC though.

[Mortigan]

That fish look like a bad photoshop job - must have lost a ton. Wonder what the big runners will look like this season?

Two places I bow hunt have spawn streams that run through them. I have have to pack both sets of gear this October...

[LongLine]

I guess I have to ask what has changed between then and now that we are not consistently seeing fish that large anymore?

'94, 95 & 96 had the lowest King stocking numbers. (Remember 93 was the year that stocking numbers were greatly reduced) Those 3 years they only put in like 1mil to 1.3mil. Also Nat repro hadn't kicked in enough to be noticed. (Till '99) Fish from 95-96 would be the big ones caught in '99

In 1999 the yearling alewife numbers were extremely high during April-May. The yearling alewife numbers since have been 20% of that or less.

Basically, during the "get fat" portion of their life cycle, there was more prey available.

Another way to look at it is to figure the ratios: in very rough numbers - the year that we had the tremendous kings, each king had 10,000 alewives to chose from. In the last 10 yrs or so King stocking targets roughly 1.7 mil & Nat repro has kicked in. Alewive population is down from those years. It's more like each king now has 500-1000 alewives to chose from.

Additionally, the invasives (mussels & gobies) have shifted the alewive population out over deeper water. The kings start sniffing around the rivers in mid-late Aug. Mid July the alewives go back out. The kings used to be able to eat pretty good around the mouths of the rivers. Now, there's not much of their favorite food available to munch on while they're sniffing.

Tom B.

(LongLine)

[BSmaster]

Makes sense Tom.

One of my favorite quotes. "The only thing that stays the same is change."

Thanks for posting,

Joe

[GAMBLER]

Brian,

I thought of you typing that post..........it is just plain smart to target hog TROUT like you do...Congrats!!! Your name is not very descriptive of your methodology, but don't fix what ain't broken!!!

Thanks Carl. We normally target Lakers mid day after the king bite during the LOC and Orleans but we never thought in a million years we would boat a laker over 30lbs.

[ladyblugill]

i think you had the right idea rodbuster. the lake didn't get any bigger. yes it was warmer. i guess it was just the kings that stopped feeding earlier. how about last yr. when the summer derby winner was about 6 lbs. bigger than the fall winner? i can't wait to hear next yrs. excuses. it will probably be bush's fault..lol...of course it won't have to do with all the fishing pressure. (tournaments).