pultneyville 9/14 *update on questionable coho!*

[machzrcr]

Fishing Report

Your Name / Boat Name: SET-N-READY

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TRIP OVERVIEW

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Date(s):

Time on Water:

Weather/Temp:

Wind Speed/Direction:

Waves:

Surface Temp:

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LAT/LONG (GPS Cords):

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FISHING RESULTS

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Total Hits: 8

Total Boated:5

Species Breakdown:kings, steel

Hot Lure: white green dot spinnys carbon 14 moonshine

Trolling Speed: 2.0

Down Speed:

Boat Depth: 40-150ft

Lure Depth: 100-120ft (depths we actually hooked up on)

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SUMMARY & FURTHER DETAILS

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not many reports from sodus area so figured i would put up one. went out nice and early didnt see any fish porposing or jumping (around pultneyville) went out and set up in 40 foot and trolled it out to 140 and didn't mark much at all!!

went a good couple hours without much action had a few trips on the riggers with no one home. around noon fish turned on divers out 325 one setting white green dot hammer fly. 500 copper same set up and rigger with carbon 14, and nk mokey puke all took hits didnt mark many fish but later in the day a few fish started to show up and rods started to go off.

got this one fish that i am confused on and i am ussualy pretty good with my fish but this one is confusing me. I think it is a coho but it looks a lot like a king, maybe a mix fish? had a white mouth and not many spots but the spots on the bottom of the taill are making me wonder! and fish weighed 17lbs

fish is gorgeous with tons of purples and teals and we kept it because if i can confirm it is a coho i think it will be a really nice mount!

the only female king of the day! ( yes he is holding it out a little lol was about 24lbs )

[GAMBLER]

The first pic is a juvenile king.

[machzrcr]

it is bugging me and i should know this! lol but here are better jaw pics. after even looking up more i am still not sure all the cohos i get ik for sure usssualy from complete lack of spots and their weird looking heads!

the pics

gambler the pic does make it look really like a juve king but in person it just doesnt look right.. think its possibly a mix?

[GAMBLER]

Looks king to me. Another way to tell is by the anal fin.

[machzrcr]

so in comparison this is deffinitely a coho

the anal fin on the coho should have what i read it should be sharper to the touch but what else.

[Tackle Buster]

http://www.great-lakes.org/fishid.html Check this site out Joe.

[machzrcr]

troy like on that site too it is the lower jaw or upper jaw that is mainly used?

and its hard to see in the pics but the fish does not have any spots along the back and upper sides, it looks like it does in the pic but it is just the crappy camera quality. which is confusing me unlike all the other amateur kings i have caught.

[Rippin'Line]

deffinetely a king

[machzrcr]

ok here is another picture of it. the scales come off SUPER easy like a coho which you can see in the picture how many have come off and the lack of spots.

[GAMBLER]

Look at the spots on the tail. KING KING KING. No way is it a coho.

[LongLine]

Mach - Definitely a King. Spots & look at the anal fin. (compare fin to other pic you posted) Also note it's a stocked King as it's adipose fin is gone.

Tom B.

(LongLine)

[machzrcr]

long line- i did notice that it has its adipose fin clipped and i see what you guys are saying about the spots on the tail which is why i have been questioning it from the begining and posted it on here to ask about it lol

but do you think there is any reasoning for lack of spots on the rest of body?

and any possibility it may be a possible coho/king cross?

[machzrcr]

ok i just talked to my buddy who works with the dec and does their fish studies. and he said he thinks it is a king for its anal fin and the clipping.

he is not sure why it wouldn't have spots or why the scales come off soo easily! So You all have been RIGHT! Thanks for helping me figure this one out!

[john1947]

Joe, That fish sure looks like a coho.We caught enough of them back in the ninetties.I ended up 1 for two hits just west of you before you went east.Im going to try some of my old flashers and flys had good luck late last year along with running a silver horde chasing the fly.

[Tim Bromund]

That is definitely an immature king, honestly, immature kings shed scales almost as easily as coho do.

Tim

[john1947]

went out for bass tonight,no luck on bass put I did mark alot of big fish off the drop off just out of port 25 ft. of water..I guess they know the rains coming tomorrow

[panfisher]

Yeah, kings don't always have spots; even on bigger fish......But both flukes of the tail have spots=king. And the clipped adipose fin thing=king......

[machzrcr]

ok

i have been emailing another guy from the dec and he said the only way to telll for almost be 100% sure what it is is to count the pyloric caeca, which are part of the digestive tract. If you open the right side of the fish down towards the belly right behind the pectoral fin it will be right there. It is a large organ with what looks like spaghetti (or worms) coming off it..

and A coho will have in the range of 50-86, Chinooks 129-175 and hybrids 103-108.

So i went ahead with this and i counted 98 with maybe missing a few.

the fun mess in the end.

So i sent him this pic, and he said the fish is definitely has too many to be a pure coho and i didnt't miss enough to make it a pure king so it is a hybrid king/coho! and said "The hybrids are either getting more common or more people are looking for them now because we are seeing or hearing of quite a few every year."

So lol i think that is will finnaly settle this! lol

[LongLine]

mach - I wouldn't doubt that's there is a lot of crossbreeding going on. Years ago when you caught a coho, the floor of the boat was covered with small loose scales. That hasn't been the norm for a couple of years now. (at least not for me anyways)

Tom B.

(LongLine)

[Tackle Buster]

so next question is, what about the clipping?????????? Are we all going to agree it is a stock fish

[LongLine]

During egg collection runs, the DEC at the Salmon River hatchery records/monitors all Kings as to natural or stocked. They look for clipping & nose tags. As they had over 5K kings, I doubt very much whether they had the time to rip open the gills of each one and counted before they stripped them. They do not throw back the ripe Natural Kings. Rather, they take eggs/milt from them also. Per the 2011 Lake Ontario Annual report:

SAL (Salmon River). Lake Ontario populations of coho salmon and Chinook salmon which return to Salmon River for spawning. These populations were originally derived from eggs obtained mainly from Lake Michigan sources; through 1983 for coho salmon, and through 1986 for Chinook salmon. The spawning runs are assumed to consist primarily of feral fish from Salmon River Hatchery stockings, but may contain some strays from Ontario hatcheries or naturally produced fish.

So what happens if the father and/or mother were crossbred? Some 2nd or 3rd generation crossbred Kings clipped by the mass marking trailer?

Tom B.

(LongLine)

[Nate]

That IS a King; but it's your fish and you can call it whatever you want. If I were you I would order an accurate measurement size replica mount of a 'Coho'.

Nate

[Tim Bromund]

From what I've heard from the DEC, they get almost no wild fish returning to the hatchery as they would not have imprinted there. Most of the successful wild fish production occurs in the smaller cold water tributaries of the SR. The fact that it is clipped positively identifies it as a hatchery fish. I really don't see any features in the pic that make me think it is a hybrid, it really just looks like an immature king to me.

Tim

[Paul Czarnecki]

From what I've heard from the DEC, they get almost no wild fish returning to the hatchery as they would not have imprinted there. Most of the successful wild fish production occurs in the smaller cold water tributaries of the SR. The fact that it is clipped positively identifies it as a hatchery fish. I really don't see any features in the pic that make me think it is a hybrid, it really just looks like an immature king to me.

Tim

I agree Tim. I can't believe there was this much discussion over what is so obviously a king.

You guys saying "the scales come off cohos" and using that as your rationale need to learn some fish biology. ALL salmonids, when immature, will have very soft scales that appear loose and come off easily. A coho or a king in April, May and June. A Steelhead almost ANY time before October. Do the scales come off the mature cohos you're catching now or are you calling those kings too? Sheesh!

[spoonfed-1]

ok

i have been emailing another guy from the dec and he said the only way to telll for almost be 100% sure what it is is to count the pyloric caeca, which are part of the digestive tract. If you open the right side of the fish down towards the belly right behind the pectoral fin it will be right there. It is a large organ with what looks like spaghetti (or worms) coming off it..

and A coho will have in the range of 50-86, Chinooks 129-175 and hybrids 103-108.

So i went ahead with this and i counted 98 with maybe missing a few.

the fun mess in the end.

So i sent him this pic, and he said the fish is definitely has too many to be a pure coho and i didnt't miss enough to make it a pure king so it is a hybrid king/coho! and said "The hybrids are either getting more common or more people are looking for them now because we are seeing or hearing of quite a few every year."

So lol i think that is will finnaly settle this! lol

This is the ONLY method to make a positive ID between Kings, Cohos and Hybrids as per NY DEC fisheries Biologists.

This techique is performed before ANY records are officially awarded