Columbus Day Youth Hunt....

[tbulhead]

I think those chronic complaining bowhunters ought to be real sportsmen and use recurve only until the youth hunt and then open it up to include crossbow and compounds. There should be a "primitive bow" season.

[W.W.IV.]

Its to early for me so youall that are excited have at it and good luck. As far as the youth hunt goes thats fine, three days after they leave the woods the deer will go back to normal movement, the state land is full of people (hikers) till gun season, they don't bother them much. Hey guys don't forget to spray for ticks and shake out your cloth out side the house or camper. . Ticks suck.

[Jolly II]

I like the idea of a youth hunt, introducing young hunters to the sport is important to the future and tradition of hunting. That said, I'm not completely on board with a youth gun hunt during the archery season.

I was thinking the same thing Gator was thinking, with the youth gun hunt happening on the 1st Saturday and Sunday of the gun season, and a full blown gun opener moved back to Monday. I think it would be much safer as all the archers would be out of the woods by then.

And what about youth archery hunters??? I'd love to see a youth archery hunt, for 12 and 13 year old kids the last weekend of Sept, or the even the 1st weekend of October. I'd be happy to give up a weekend in the woods to our kids with a bow. I can always take a couple days off during the week to hunt anyway.

I'm just thinking it's better practice to keep the gun hunting during the gun season.

I've had my 4 year old daughter in the woods a lot over the last month. Scouting, checking trail cams, and hanging deer stands(Mom comes along for that) She's already telling me when she sees tracks, and slowly we are teaching her about rubs and scrapes. That kind of early exposure is what got me into hunting and the outdoors, and it was always quality time spent with my family and friends. Killing a deer, or catching a fish was the bonus. That's what really gets kids into hunting and fishing, getting them involved in it at an early age.

[Pequod1]

"old grump protecting his turf"

Thanks Gator - I thought you forgot all about me. Good luck out there.

[stoneyxc]

I started hunting with my father when I was 5 years old and he took me and/or my brother with him every weekend our whole lives until we were old enough to hunt our selfs. My brother and I are both avid hunters and we never had a youth hunt. I don't think that will prompt kids to hunt at all. If you want kids to be into it you have to keep them in the woods as much as possible and make them part of it everyday. The weekends I didn't get to go to camp I sat outside Sunday morning just waiting for dad to get home hoping he was bringing home a deer or bear. There is three months of big game season, I just hope people don't think because they let there kid hunt the youth hunt they don't have to take them the rest of the season.

From a safety standpoint people unfortunately get shot during gun season when they have orange on, put a bunch of people in camo and inexperienced people in the woods with rifles it's not going to be a good outcome. I hope all goes well but I will be a bright orange pumpkin walking to my bow stand this year and I hunt private leased land but I walk the property line to get to my stand.

Good luck everyone and be safe.

[bailey]

I have likes and dislikes to to the youth season but i really don't foresee the woods looking like a pumpkin patch. Look on the bright side in some areas i am sure the extra deer movement will help quite a few bow hunters out. First and foremost everyone think safety we don't need accidents during this season. Good luck to all.

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[Paul Czarnecki]

Guys/Gals,

I am an avid bowhunter and more importantly a father of two young girls and I am 100% in favor of the youth hunt. Personally, I think the majority of the responses here are trying to justify reasons why a youth hunt is bad, but I can imagine "deep down inside" most of the bowhunters simply don't want a youth hunt during "their season" out of fear that it will ruin "their hunting". I share the same concerns, however, regarding safety.

Here's some of my thoughts:

1.) There is absolutely no validity to the "deer will become more spooked" and "bucks go nocturnal" logic. Yes they might become a bit more skiddish a day or two after, but once the rut hits do you actually think a big buck is going to still be spooked two weeks later after a one weekend gun hunt? If this logic was true, you would see very few deer taken after opening day of gun season, but if you look at the 2011 Deer Take stats (FX posted this a few days ago) notice that 66% of deer taken last year were taken AFTER opening weekend of Gun Season.

2.) I share many of the same concerns over sharing the same woods with gun hunters when I am in full camo with a bow. However, a solution for this would be to adopt similar regulations that Pennsylvania has which requires archery hunters to wear 250 square inches of orange if they are hunting during a portion of their season that coincides with big game or turkey. We have been sharing the same woods with turkey hunters and small game hunters for years and to the best of my knowledge there have been very few - if any - fatalities of bow hunters being shot b/c someone mistook them for game. If safety is truly your utmost concern, than any bow hunter would adopt this in a heartbeat. I would also argue that the majority of the youth hunters would be hunting on private land so the odds of an accident would be slim.

3.) As far as poaching - poachers are going to be poachers no matter what. And yes giving them an additional opportunity during a youth hunt could conceivably increase their opportunities to take Johhny's gun and shoot a big buck, but I imagine this is going to be few and far between. An adult is not even allowed to carry a gun during the youth hunt, and I think this is a great idea.

4.) The youth are the future of our sport. With dwindling numbers of hunters year after year and shrinking areas to hunt, I think we need an opportunity like this to promote our sport and get younger kids hooked for life. To hunt during a weekend with fewer hunters in the woods, better weather, and a good chance at seeing a nice deer can help promote this enthusiam. I would argue that there is nothing that could hook a kid more than to harvest a big game animal such as deer. I remember shooting my first deer like it was yesterday, yet unfortunately I have completely forgotten the details when I harvested my first squirrel and turkey.

I argue that we need to all look at the big picture and encourage participation in our sport. Is the DEC's current proposal perfect? Absolutely not. Does it have flaws? Certainly. But I think we can use it as stepping stone to adopt other policies to make our sport safer. Initially my gut reaction to a Youth Hunt during Bow season was the same as many of you stated above. However, after I thought about it more I think it is a good idea for everyone.

Just my two pennies and I hope I have not offended anyone - good luck to all in the field,

- Chris

Disclaimer - I do not work for the DEC and none of my family have any relations to the current law. I am simply an avid hunter and family man and I love to promote our sport

Best post on this thread. Can't believe the narrowminded selfishness I've read here. Did you guys forget that just last year you couldn't bowhunt AT ALL until Oct. 15th. Maybe we should go back to that and leave the 1st to the 14th for the kids!!!

[indian]

My personal feeling on this is....While some people will be honorable and use this "season" as it should be. The vast majority will abuse it like anything else these days. Got a nephew/daughter/un-interested individual about hunting? Hell, you now have a three day early gun season. Just drag em(the poor un-inerested kid) out and tag an extra deer at all of us bow hunters expense. And don't tell me it won't happen......a lot. Because everyone knows how people follow the foul hook rule/ numerous trapping rules/ no baiting rules/ tag only deer you shoot rules/ ect.

Once again the vocal MINORITY gets its way while the majority gets the good old shaft......isn't that right Cayuga lake fisherman?

Thats three thumbs down for our joke DEC

Best post on this thread. Can't believe the narrowminded selfishness I've read here. Did you guys forget that just last year you couldn't bowhunt AT ALL until Oct. 15th. Maybe we should go back to that and leave the 1st to the 14th for the kids!!!

Yeah that'll work, then you'll loose what little hard core hunters you have left after this crap $100 license fees we already pay. I know I wouldn't pay for a license anymore if that happened, not in NY anyways, I'd be giving my money to P.A. As a matter of fact, if I see any kind of spooky behavior OR to much nonsense with this, This will be the last year me and my family hunt in NY...or fish here for that matter.

And whats more, the guy that wrote that nonsense you quoted has never been in contact with a truly large buck, anyone who's actually hunted a large buck knows....one mistake and the game is probably over. He's living in a fantasy world where everyone follows the rules...sorry to say most do not.

[reeltime]

My personal feeling on this is....While some people will be honorable and use this "season" as it should be. The vast majority will abuse it like anything else these days. Got a nephew/daughter/un-interested individual about hunting? Hell, you now have a three day early gun season. Just drag em(the poor un-inerested kid) out and tag an extra deer at all of us bow hunters expense. And don't tell me it won't happen......a lot. Because everyone knows how people follow the foul hook rule/ numerous trapping rules/ no baiting rules/ tag only deer you shoot rules/ ect.

Once again the vocal MINORITY gets its way while the majority gets the good old shaft......isn't that right Cayuga lake fisherman?

Thats three thumbs down for our joke DEC

Best post on this thread. Can't believe the narrowminded selfishness I've read here. Did you guys forget that just last year you couldn't bowhunt AT ALL until Oct. 15th. Maybe we should go back to that and leave the 1st to the 14th for the kids!!!

Yeah that'll work, then you'll loose what little hard core hunters you have left after this crap $100 license fees we already pay. I know I wouldn't pay for a license anymore if that happened, not in NY anyways, I'd be giving my money to P.A. As a matter of fact, if I see any kind of spooky behavior OR to much nonsense with this, This will be the last year me and my family hunt in NY...or fish here for that matter.

And whats more, the guy that wrote that nonsense you quoted has never been in contact with a truly large buck, anyone who's actually hunted a large buck knows....one mistake and the game is probably over. He's living in a fantasy world where everyone follows the rules...sorry to say most do not.

from the pa game commission:

DEER, ANTLERLESS (Statewide): Oct. 18-20. Junior and Senior License Holders, Disabled Person Permit (to use a vehicle) Holders, and Pennsylvania residents serving on active duty in U.S. Armed Services or in the U.S. Coast Guard only, with required antlerless license. Also included are persons who have reached or will reach their 65th birthday in the year of the application for a license and hold a valid adult license, or qualify for license and fee exemptions under section 2706. One antlerless deer with each required antlerless license.

DEER, ANTLERLESS MUZZLELOADER (Statewide): Oct. 13-20. An antlerless deer with each required antlerless license.

you should look at a different state than PA. they have had a WEEK long gun season in oct. archery for close to 10 years with LITTLE impact to buck harvest the remainder of the archery season! when they started this season we heard

all the same stuff,, scared deer, poaching, hunters getting shot etc... little to none of it happened!

if a person is going to poach a deer they are going to poach a deer whether there is a "special" season or not. we have co-existed with the gun hunters during archery and not had any issues. hasn't effected taking bucks after the oct gun season at all. take a gander at the hunting pa archery forum from mid oct. to the end of the season there are some mighty nice bucks taken after the "dreaded" early youth season.

I have hunted pa since '77 , have lived through all the changes in seasons and herd reductions, if you fail to adapt to change and fail to adapt your hunting strategies to the changes in place you can expect to have little success, change the way you approach hunting and your strategies and you can continue to be successful.

you will find quite a few states have youth seasons, whether you want to believe it or not it IS a good thing, our cherished sport of hunting is a DYING sport! its tough to get kids to hunt today with all the other distractions, the hunting heritage in our age brackets of today (35-50) because when we started hunting wasn't looked down upon as much as it is for today's youth, 20 years from now there will be fewer of us in that current 35-50 bracket hunting.

the number of hunters is dwindling, every time we loose a hunter the anti's gain an advantage.

sooner or later IF we take the "all for me, the heck with the next generation" stance we WILL see an end to hunting

as we know it! So we can either take the "head in the sand" approach and do nothing or we can do whatever we can to

help promote the sport of hunting by our actions.

good luck this season to all no matter where you hunt or what you hunt for, hopefully everyone has a safe and enjoyable season.

[Gator]

I'm going to reiterate in brief my rationale for opposing the youth hunt:

It breeds a sense of entitlement in the kids.

Given how that's one of the biggest issues with kids in today's society, the last thing we need to do is feed the flames.

The more you want something, the harder you work for it, and the more you value it. Getting kids interested in hunting should reflect our values as sportsman, not an attempt to provide an "easy" alternative to video games and tv.

There are lots of good points here from people supporting the youth hunt, and I won't argue any of them. My objection is more philosophical than substantative. What's the next step when our numbers continue to diminish? This isn't a selfish concern.

I would fully support DEC increasing access to land, as that's probably the limiting factor in getting youths to hunt (tough to get permission), and it would benefit everyone equally. In fact, there're lots of routes we could take to increase recruitment. Just not this shortcut.

[indian]

What this guy ^^^^^ says.

Also you want to know the single biggest killer to hunting in general? $100 freaking, gouging, REDICULAS dollars for a RESIDENT hunting license, That alone has KILLED the amount of hunters in this state. You can try and say this BS("youth" hunt) will bring in new hunters, the fact is, its the state trying to milk more money by exploiting the hunting population. They(the DEC) could care less if this hunt will be exploited(it isn't "poaching" so stop that argument") Its plain out right exploiting a way to extend adults season.

This is the beginning of the end I'm afraid, next its going to be crossbows(lazy as hell and skilless) definitely NOT bow hunting. Early muzzle loader season, ect. Oh, And higher license fee's, all for the "BETTERMENT" of the sport. Can't wait for the the vocal minority to get the antler restrictions in place in the entire state. Just keep pushing this garbage guys, pretty soon you'll be all alone in the woods and then there won't be a reason to have hunting seasons at all. Keep that in mind, me and I suspect a lot more hunters are almost to the point of giving it up all together. This nonsense is pushing out way more than it will ever hope to bring into the sport.

*EDIT* I shouldn't have said PA, that states big game management practices are a study in how to crash and ruin your deer heard in as short a time as possible. My wifes family ownes over 150 acres in Potter county and haven't harvested a single deer in 2 years now. And not for trying, No thanks.

*EDIT2*

Sorry if I come off a little short, keep in mind me and my family live off of what we kill and grow as much as possible. It's how I was brought up, hunting deer is a way of life for me and has been for my entire life. In the last 8 or so years I've watch while my way of life has gone from a tradition to some yuppie chest beating idiot contest. I do not care if I ever shoot a 10 point wall hanger, thats not what I'm out there for, I'm out there to do what we as hunters should be doing. NOT out there so I can go to the bar or country club and brag to Chet about who shot the most points that year, thats a perversion of what we should be doing.

All these reason are why hunting is dieing, if a kid goes hunting and doesn't shoot a 10 point(or any deer for that matter), he's made to feel a failure, my suggestion is teach your kids why and what your doing in the field instead of making it a stupid insignificant contest. Hell my 18 yr old step son still hasn't killed a DEER, he keeps at it because we hunt as a family and don't make it a contest.

[reeltime]

for a Resident of PA. to pay item by item to get the same thing as a super sportsman license in NY

PA. $104.60 with NO fishing license included, paying for a 2nd spring turkey tag & only 1 fall turkey tag.

add in the pa fishing license with trout/salmon stamp and you can tack on another 22.70 just for the license

and if you want a trout/salmon stamp and fish lake erie its another 15.70

so all total to get basically the same license as a pa resident that basically equals a ny super sportsman license

you will give the pa state $143.00

for the quality of game and fish here and the season lengths to get all we get for $98.00 isn't that bad of a deal especially

when you compare other states fees and seasons.

[salmonchop]

Lee, you make some great points, but unfortunately you are wasting your time. Somebody as ignorant as indian (and a few others) will never change his mind, and chooses to ignore the facts and base his arguments on unsupported opinions.

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[momay4000]

And whats more, the guy that wrote that nonsense you quoted has never been in contact with a truly large buck, anyone who's actually hunted a large buck knows....one mistake and the game is probably over. He's living in a fantasy world where everyone follows the rules...sorry to say most do not.

Sorry it took me awhile to get to you Indian - I have been in the woods the past two days and it's hard to get to the computer during hunting season....I'm not sure how you know so much about me when we haven't even met? No encounters with large bucks eh? I invite you to join me for a cocktail in my game lodge - but be careful because you might hit your head on any one of my mounts or you might trip on one of my freezers packed with venison and salmon that I use to feed my family.

Oh I'm sorry sir - I guess having deer heads on the wall would make me a "yuppie chest beating idiot".....

Sorry if I come off a little short, keep in mind me and my family live off of what we kill and grow as much as possible. It's how I was brought up, hunting deer is a way of life for me and has been for my entire life. In the last 8 or so years I've watch while my way of life has gone from a tradition to some yuppie chest beating idiot contest. I do not care if I ever shoot a 10 point wall hanger, thats not what I'm out there for, I'm out there to do what we as hunters should be doing. NOT out there so I can go to the bar or country club and brag to Chet about who shot the most points that year, thats a perversion of what we should be doing.

.

Take care and good luck this year - I'm off to the country club to join in a "perversion of what we should be doing" followed by a short trip to my local bar to brag about my opening day. I'll make sure to tell all the paying youth hunters this year to steer clear of your family property.

Cheers

[fishon]

I love this topic. It’s really neat to see a different point of views from different people.

I just got back form a 4 day hunt up north. (Archery opens up there Sept 27-30.) I logged

At least 25+ hrs sitting in the stand in four days. 4 hour drive one way to do it. A honey-do-list, done. So I could get away, gas, new dozen arrows, little Debbie snacks, too many snacks so a new pair of pants form gander etc needless to say it adds up. I believe one line says it the best.

It’s not a passion it’s an obsession.

First night there we spotlighted deer everywhere. Public and Private land.

Second night-Not as many on state to private

Third night- maybe 10 on state

Fourth night – 2 deer on state land all others were in private land

Still count about same numbers, every night. Just move around.

My log from my stand. Same tree for four days.

Sept 27- 5 deer

Sept 28- 3 deer

Sept 29 –1 deer

Sept 30- 0 deer

(Don’t smoke and where scent lock. Spend a good “buck†on dead down wind supplies. Only way to get to stand is on a deer trail it doesn’t help I know. Normal would not hunt everyday out of same stand but wanted to try it just for this.)

Seen at least 3 be taken on 27

2 on the 28 heard of

None on 29 or 30.

3 were bucks a seven, six point and three point off the public land.

One doe off private I knew of.

Public land had way more pressure of guys. But the point is, in a couple days deer behaviors change. Sept. 27 afternoon seen deer by 3:30 up feeding on Sept. 29 about five minutes before dark. I’m sure as time goes on, and private lands get more pressure deer will move around. NO doubt. As pressure accrues deer change. I took one Sept 27, last year Opener and one last day of muzzle season afternoon all public land I know it can be done. I spend a great amount of time. Even on big paid deer hunts in other states they only book so many hunter till rut or gun season not to push their deer off there ranches and make them go nocturnal. Some times I wonder if all the different views are because we all hunt different. (driving/sitting) Public to private land (people everywhere/more control hunts). Opening day in western NY is 100% (with everyone out) different compare to upstate NY. (Not till snow flies)

I read on here, on news last week, on a local talk show, and NYS Outdoors News. There is this big rift between bow hunters and hunters. Last I check anyone can get a bow and go hunting. There is no secret cult of people that get to go bow hunting. It’s open for anyone to try! This “bow hunters want it all†stuff is crazy. With all the crazy groups like peta.etc the last thing sportsman’s need to do is become split.

Its not bow hunters think your going to take my deer. It’s the woods change.

Sitting there this weekend, the woods is still, quiet, you can collect your thoughts the woods moves naturally.

From birds, squirrels coyotes, fox, grouse, turkeys, owl’s deer all things I seen this weekend. NO crazy shouting, guys barking, people shooting, deer coming in with there jaws wide open, or holes in them, it’s the calmness. Yes rut is a great time to get out, but 3 bucks taken this weekend, didn’t need the rut, Put your time in and do your homework and it will pay off. Heard a report a monster was taken, a 22 point + record? (Check Watertown paper or deer and deer hunting new state record non typical) If you don’t bow hunt try it or just try going out in the woods before shotgun and see the difference for yourself. There so many people that think to get a deer you need everyone in the woods. More guys to drive the better theory.

I had a gentlemen up there pump about the youth hunt could not wait to get his kid out so he could get one for the freezer, As was my neighbor was when I got home his words, “Cant wait to get a easy one†More people are going to abuse this then the good of it.

Then in two years when there kids can’t do this there be the ones whining about it.

There people I know that are pushing 80 trying to still get out there, Disabled people, guys with kids + jobs, out of 4 weekends might be able to get out for 2 days of reg season. I think we all lived tight schedules. For the fees we pay, I think to keep it fair we should all have the same opportunities. I stayed up north for the opener of pheasant. They released birds Friday by Monday there was very few shots. My dog is pushing her last years so I could not due what I have in the past. The old girl did flush one. Red tails hawks, coyotes and fox were seen think they got the early hunt. But the youths had first cracked at them during sat and sun. Seen plates from Mass., Ohio, Pa, and NY, With a lot of guys coming back skunk the youth hunt was to blame. Not good for season vets.

Opener should be the opener. Season should be season.

My dad tells me open day of deer school would be closed; Open day of pheasant hunting no one would be in school. I love to know what attendance is around open day (opener being sat.) of deer now, do a lot of kids still miss? Any teachers out there?

In school they teach health, tech, home, music its to bad there would not teach gun safety or give the gun safety course in school so they would all have it and be open to it. Just because they don’t hunt or have guns in there house doesn’t mean the friends don’t. It be nice to educate children and not have learn it form Rambo that can take 10 shots and keep trucking. (Love those movies) People have to put 12 hrs in before even the first day of hunting. Maybe if they had the course in school it is easier for them to get out. I heard boy scouts have taken the gun merit badge and archery out. 4 h does not even touch on it. Rumor has it 4 h building wont even let the gun raffles be held there anymore. (Ins. reason??).

I would love to see the state try to help hunter in opening more land. (Tax break to farmers that open their land?) But even on the refuge and state land. Farmers used to plant crops and just leave 10 percent behind. But now do to insurance companies they cant do it anymore. Love to see some common sense come back! The fields that had corn and soybeans are just nesting grass now. Sorry different tangent. Back on topic.

Bow hunters always went with first to stick it (vital hit) that’s who deer it was. For gun last one to drop it. (I seen dead ones and guys still putting a shot into to claim it). With a mix of bows and guns in the woods on Columbus Day weekend. I could see problems. In rifle areas sitting on a hedge row,

“He’s 20 yards little closerâ€

And BOOM buck drops from a kid 200 yards away. This will be far a few between but you can’t say it would not happen. Then the fight between two hunters afterwards, this will be good for the Kids! Or a 15 old kid about to take his first deer with the bow, A guy who’s chasing Bull winkle pass it up two years in a row waiting for it to become big so he can take it on opening day of the regular season. Is it fair for a youth to get a month jump on him? For all the rack hunters if the 22-point from up north (NYS NEW RECORD) were killed during the youth hunt would it be a pope and young or Boone and crocket record killed. It’s with a gun but its bow season, Should it count for the books?

It would be great to get more kids into it. Sports in school miss a practice and you cant play in sat game, to own a car aint cheap young kids are school, working. 100 Dollars for a couple weekends is tough. Away at college come home for a week at thanksgiving, is you’re child going to spend the fee to hunt a couple of days? It don’t surprise me most people get into at 30-35 years old. That’s when life slows down from parting till 4:00am in the morning. Bills start to come in and a freeze full of meat is nice. If people don’t start hunting till there 35 (or any age) and it’s there first season hunting do they deserve a special season?

For others if you are into it, your still going to do it, We can all say I won’t buy my tags or I'm not going to hunt that Columbus day weekend, I taken my boat out in Nov. to the river, because the woods get so crazy, but after one day off I'm ready to go again. I wish things would stay the same. I don’t think the youth hunt is a good idea, like to make a doe day or buck day, just so all people would have to identified there target, not brown and its down with the seven tags NYS gives. I see more people give up the sport due to frustration of not seeing them. Which a gun weekend in Oct. will due. I rather hunt an open field than a funnel. It’s only a couple days away; it will be neat to see how it goes. Wonder how many kids didn’t get the course in this year with NYS last minute decision. Can we start a poll on here just to see what the numbers would be for or against? Since turkey, ducks, and pheasant youth hunts is there any stats on how many kids continue on? With doc numbers they should be able to see how many stick with it. Kids that bought youth turkey five years ago still buying tags today? As much of this I think is bad, good luck this weekend and be safe. Sportsman support each other because I think with AR programs, youth hunts, crossbows, season changes, the more we become divided that will be the quickest way we fail.

My thoughts being in the stand this weekend

Joel

just started a poll vote now!

[salmodan]

Indian is a blatant retard imho

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[salmodan]

Using inflation as a stand-point... is 100 dollars to much? I think not when u look back when gas was 1.29 a gallon a sportsman license was 47 dollars. Add inflation and realize that 100 dollars isn't what it used to be. Thanks for your cheap-skate wisdom once again indian, you prove your ignorance time and time again, nice boat btw, cheap-skate comes to mind once again.

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