Want to start trolling......................

[apb]

You have a P.M.

[laker taker]

Jack, You have another PM..

Chuck

[stoutner]

I know everyone is saying wire and I'll chime in too. Just as Wes said, braided is great until the fleas come out then it is worthless. So many fleas will stick to it that you will have to pull your lines every 15 minutes and clean them off.

Mono is great for a downrigger rod but is worthless when used with a dipsy diver for a few reasons. 1. Mono is so thick and has so much drag that you won't get your dipsies down deep enough. 2. When you ask for help and someone says "I caught the fish on a Mountain Dew Spin Doctor with a Green fly off the diver out 250" they are almost always using wire (or maybe braid). Wire will allow your diver and lure to get so much deeper than Mono it is not even close. 3. mono has so much stretch that you cannot trip the release on the diver when it is out a 150 feet or more.

As far as the twilly tip goes... If you are strapped for cash you wont need one unless you accidently break off your tip or you eventually wear through the standard tip. I have a rod that I have used for at least 100 fishing trips and the standard tip is still fine. The rod is falling apart though My other wire rods do have twilly tips though.

Other advise.... Watch the classifieds section and buy from guys on here. Great deals are had year round. Also, keep active on this forum and post or PM a few of the regulars to see if they have an open spot for you. Many of us would be happy to show you the ropes on our boat if we are going out. A few bucks for gas and a decent personality will get you all the fishing trips you could want. I'd be happy to take you out on Lake Ontario next year...give me a PM in the Spring if you remember.

[hermit]

Lots of good info. Sk8man's suggestion to make sure your boat can take the gear is a good one. I can't run wire or large dipseys until I upgrade the rod holders on my boat.

While wire is the way to go during the summer just think about the fishing you want to do. If you want to troll all summer it's probably worth the investment. For guys on a budget there are cheaper things to do though. I troll until the fleas get bad, generally the end of June or so. Then starting again in the fall. During high summer I jig for lakers mostly, but bass are an option. Not sure if I'm getting this out right but my point is, fishing in general is expensive and trolling doubly so, so pick your spending carefully.

Personally I'd say start small, especially if you're on a budget. Wire will get you down 100' but you don't need to be there until late spring. (Or maybe right now but the lake is cooling fast.) Braid is all you need unless you're set on trolling July-Sept. It all depends on you I guess is my real point, figure out when and what you'll be fishing for. You can catch plenty of fish all year without expensive trolling gear, you just have to switch species at times. And don't buy junk! Quality counts. But if you know you'll be trolling deep in August, disregard everything I just wrote. (Except about quality.)

[ifishy]

fluro leaders are a good investment as well i like P line but everyone has there favorites if you store it right a single spool will last years for leaders i know you have a small boat but weather permitting in the spring dont be afraid to fish places like seneca at watkins for land locks or even lake o for browns i have a 14' starcraft with a 7.5 hp motor and fish both i just follow as many different weather reports as i can find. chances are whatever spin cast rods you have can be flatlined for those things. once your set up and trolling lakers for lures get spin doctors they are expensive and i can only buy one or two a year (sad I know) but my best producers for lakers all year.

[Big Water]

Something I didn't see mentioned, but wire can be real nasty if you don't keep a slight tension on it AT ALL TIMES. Always keep your clicker turned on so the reel never free spools on you. That stuf will turn into a nightmare with even the slightest slack. You'll often end up cutting it to get the tangles out. Also, you will get curly Qs in wire and that's ok, but if there is ANY kink in it, you need to cut it out. A kink will snap like a peice of 1 lb test.

[Nessmuk]

Lots of good info. Sk8man's suggestion to make sure your boat can take the gear is a good one. I can't run wire or large dipseys until I upgrade the rod holders on my boat.

While wire is the way to go during the summer just think about the fishing you want to do. If you want to troll all summer it's probably worth the investment. For guys on a budget there are cheaper things to do though. I troll until the fleas get bad, generally the end of June or so. Then starting again in the fall. During high summer I jig for lakers mostly, but bass are an option. Not sure if I'm getting this out right but my point is, fishing in general is expensive and trolling doubly so, so pick your spending carefully.

Personally I'd say start small, especially if you're on a budget. Wire will get you down 100' but you don't need to be there until late spring. (Or maybe right now but the lake is cooling fast.) Braid is all you need unless you're set on trolling July-Sept. It all depends on you I guess is my real point, figure out when and what you'll be fishing for. You can catch plenty of fish all year without expensive trolling gear, you just have to switch species at times. And don't buy junk! Quality counts. But if you know you'll be trolling deep in August, disregard everything I just wrote. (Except about quality.)

Hermit,

Thanks for your post! I'm pretty much under the weather with allergies June/July/Aug and find the summer heat/humidity tough to take. Late summer evenings I'd rather pitch poppers with a flyrod and harrass some bass. Then in September start trolling until it starts to get too cold to bear.

Most of my trolling will be spring and fall. I've decided to go with 20# mono and a standard dipsy for the time being. I figure if the dipsy was originally intended to be used with mono it should work ok. I'm not really all that enthused about dealing with wire and think mono will work OK. I just need to find a dipsy rod/reel and decide on color for the dipsy.

I have two cheapo die cast rod holders that came with the boat and will try them first. I plan on making some "improvements" to the boat and will install a fishfinder first. Biggest problem is that the boat is too small! The more I fish from it the more I realize that! Gotta live with it for now though.

Jack

[ERABBIT]

30# mono would be a better choice IMHO ( fleas)..... it would be fine in the spring but the fleas seem to hang on into the fall. ........ and if youe going to use flasher/fly $15 to $20 worth of hardware would make me a bit antys with only 20#. Buy rod/reel that you can just remove the mono and replace with wire when you feel you want to up-grade...........mono is way more forgiving that wire....... I started with mono and still use it early on , it works but you will have to play with the release on a dipsy to get it JUST right so it will release with 200+' out or do a lot of work bringing it back in. I run slidedivers on my mono rigs not dipsydiver.......... why don't you want to make a downrigger IF you could.......... I use downrigger 90% of my fishing time on the water.......

[Nessmuk]

30# mono would be a better choice IMHO ( fleas)..... it would be fine in the spring but the fleas seem to hang on into the fall. ........ and if youe going to use flasher/fly $15 to $20 worth of hardware would make me a bit antys with only 20#. Buy rod/reel that you can just remove the mono and replace with wire when you feel you want to up-grade...........mono is way more forgiving that wire....... I started with mono and still use it early on , it works but you will have to play with the release on a dipsy to get it JUST right so it will release with 200+' out or do a lot of work bringing it back in. I run slidedivers on my mono rigs not dipsydiver.......... why don't you want to make a downrigger IF you could.......... I use downrigger 90% of my fishing time on the water.......

I decided that since 20# is what the dipsy instructions mention and give a depth table for it would be a good starting point. I'll probably just drag a Sutton spoon or similar around w/o flasher or any fly.

I am a machinist/patternmaker and have small lathe and mill but decided against building a DR as the more I read about using the dipsy the more I am attracted.

For this fall I hope to try dragging a few ounces of lead and a spoon or spinner and see if I can catch anything. I saw this on you tube and a post in this thread.

May try Canadice if there is a nice day and I am able to get my boat in the water. I looked at the boat launch there today and it isn't very nice being rocky and very shallow quite a way out.

Hope to get a fish finder tomarrow.

[hermit]

Mono is okay if you don't have much line out but by late spring you will want braid like the other guys suggested. When I started I used mono but ran into the dipsey tripping problem, split a spool of braid between two rods and kept some mono as backer which I replace every year or two. You could do this too to keep initial costs down but the braid will last a lot longer than the mono making it an even or better deal in the long run. I use the Diawa Sealine reels and feel they are a good deal, not junk but not prohibitively expensive.

Also deep diving cranks will get you down 15' and can be run off a regular fishing rod.

[quality time]

I think the guide you get with the diver is taylored towards walleye fisherman that do not fish much deeper than 60'. The chart does not go to the depths that we fish. Trout and salmon fisherman are always pushing the limits. Mono will work in the upper water column. If fishing deeper the extra drag of mono will limit the depth you can get to and the stretch will make it hard to trip the diver when you want to bring it in. This drag will also limit the distance the diver will go out to the side of the boat if you are running the diver in directional mode. Wes

[Ric66]

I used to fish Hemlock and Canadice all the time. I used seth green rigs (thermocline rigs) with Sutton spoons #44. You can put up to 5 spoons on each rod but I would only put two or three on. You can get some fairly cheap rods on Cabelas with a penn reel- I think the 309. Put some backing on the reel then tie on 25lb mono. Its a rig that's hard to describe-get a copy of Sanders fishing guide- central NY version and it's explain in there. Go to the middle of these lakes and drop the rig with a 2lb weight right to the bottom. I always got more strikes on Canadice but Hemlock has some monster lake trout and rainbow. You really don't need an expensive depth finder for these lakes. I think thermo rigs are the cheapest way to get started trolling for trout

http://www.valorebooks.com/textbooks/sa ... 4AodwGsARQ

[Nessmuk]

Ric66

I have considered a Seth Green rig but assumed one used wire stored on a victrola reel. Maybe I should look at that idea some more. I do wonder what it is like to play a fish with all that hardware attached?

[Nessmuk]

........

[apb]

I second the Seth greene suggestion.... pulling Suttons of course!

[TyeeTanic]

Dipsy divers are the staple food of trolling. This is #1 and then you chose your secondary choices.

I fish my dipseys from 30ft - 100ft. I fish with up to 4 WIRE dipseys at any one time.

Mark

[guff]

Hi freshwater - I know your topic on this post is about trolling but you might want to consider jigging for mostly lakers. It is a super cheap way of fishing and is definately effective and one heck of a lot of fun. A good fishfinder($200), decent rod, and an medium expensive reel and you are in business. A good jig setup with a few good plastics ($7) is all the terminal lure you need. Maybe Pete Collins will chime in and tell you how he got his REALLY cheap setup that caught a pile of lake trout Friday. Also if you go on Hermit's web site you can get the jigging low down and buy some really good jigs., etc. But if you want to learn the tactics FAST a trip with guide John Gaulke would make a good combination Christmas, birthday, Father's day present.

[Nessmuk]

As it happened I ended up with an affordable downrigger and Luhr Jensen speed indicator from a LOU member. Now I have to figure out how to mount them and the fishfinder.

Any suggestions as to where to mount the DR? Off the stern or off the side?

[Sk8man]

Before answering the question about where to locate the downrigger we could use some additional info regarding which downrigger and model, how long is the boom on it, how wide are the gunnels and transom of your boat and what type of fastener/base does the downrigger (if any) have? These items are critical to mounting because in any case the mounting has to be SECURE and remember you are going to have a weight on it and it generates a lot of torque. Also with ONE downrigger the weight on your boat will be distributed differently so on a 12 ft. aluminum boat this will be very important. If the downrigger is one of the small PORTABLE types this may be less of a factor but my hunch is that is not the case. Back in the 70's I used to run two four ft long Riveria manual downriggers on my 13 ft whaler (highly buoyant boat) but I didn't use them on my 12 ft Aluminum because of the potential torque and inability to properly secure them to the boat. The thing to keep in mind is the POTENTIAL to get the cannonball hung upon bottom and this generates MUCH more torque than normal use.

[Nessmuk]

Sk8man,

This dinky boat is going to require some structural additions. I have some 6" aluminum channel I might be able to use to make a transom mount or make sort of a longditudinal wood deck attached to the two seats. I think I understand some of the forces at play. Off the side would be easier to handle but off the transom would keep the ball/wire closer to the CL of the boat and keep the boat going more straight. I am leaning toward transom mout but w/o experience figured it was wise to ask before I start cutting material. There is nowhere to mount the DR or speed indicator on this boat w/o making something.

The DR is a Cannon Easy Troll and has a simple base that clamps the DR in place. The weight is a 10# and I will probably start with it but wonder if a smaller weight might work better on this small boat. Came with a walker release.

[Nessmuk]

Forgot, 18" boom

[Sk8man]

I think the quickest/easiest route might be to reinforce the top of the transom with a piece of solid aluminum or stainless stock (if you can get it or have it) and purchase a Cannon clamp mount (made specifically for the Easi-troll/mini-mag downriggers) that way you could be able to take the downrigger off and on without much trouble to protect it etc. I would also attach a safety line to the downrigger (just in case). If it is attached to the transom it would be safer in terms of balance within the boat and the 18 inch boom should clear your 6 horse. OR: Check to see if you could create a triangular plate across the preferred corner of the transom and reinforce it good and clamp to that with the downrigger facing outward at a 45 degree angle to get it away from the motor. The material you use would have to be rigid and durable yet still allow clearance for the clamp. When you happnen across some extra bucks in the future you could purchase a Cannon adjustable swivel mount (pricey but worth the investment) which would give you more range of movement. I would definitely opt for the transom mount given the balance etc. within the boat.

Here is an example of the Cannon clamp mount : http://www.cabelas.com/product/Cannon-C ... l+Products

[Sk8man]

I'd also start with a 6-8 pound weight and if that works OK it would be less torque and still get you down there. It should still be pretty accurate depth wise as long as you aren't really cranking :>)

[Nessmuk]

I think the quickest/easiest route might be to reinforce the top of the transom with a piece of solid aluminum or stainless stock (if you can get it or have it) and purchase a Cannon clamp mount (made specifically for the Easi-troll/mini-mag downriggers) that way you could be able to take the downrigger off and on without much trouble to protect it etc. I would also attach a safety line to the downrigger (just in case). If it is attached to the transom it would be safer in terms of balance within the boat and the 18 inch boom should clear your 6 horse. OR: Check to see if you could create a triangular plate across the preferred corner of the transom and reinforce it good and clamp to that with the downrigger facing outward at a 45 degree angle to get it away from the motor. The material you use would have to be rigid and durable yet still allow clearance for the clamp. When you happnen across some extra bucks in the future you could purchase a Cannon adjustable swivel mount (pricey but worth the investment) which would give you more range of movement. I would definitely opt for the transom mount given the balance etc. within the boat.

Here is an example of the Cannon clamp mount : http://www.cabelas.com/product/Cannon-C ... l+Products

I think you are right about the transom mount! I appreciate your opinion. I especially like the idea of the safety lanyard since I would be if it went for a swim I have a small supply of aluminum plate in various thicknesses as well as some structural aluminum. I like the idea of a swivel mount but that will have to wait since this week I sort of blew my wad on this and the fishfinder.

The setup has a Walker release which is different from what I have seen at tackle stores. What release do you like best?

I have to start looking for used weights. The one that I have is kinda crummy but might get some use.

[Sk8man]

I have used nearly every release known to mankind :>) including homemade ones and rubberband jobs etc. I have been using BLACK RELEASES since the late 70's or early 80"s and always returned to them as I have never had any problems with them and best of all they are only about $10 each and can be found in many area tackle shops (check Gander Mountain or Dick's) or order from Cabelas. Once the tension is set (I do it in my yard by hooking up to the downrigger and pulling it and adjusting till it feels right (3-4 pounds pressure). The tension button is very sensitive to adjustments and it can be easily tightened and lossened with changing tackle and trolling conditions. Black makes a few models (e.g. downrigger and outrigger models) and either will work fine on a downrigger. One of my buddies who went with me a couple weeks ago changed over to them for his boat after trying them on my boat :>)