Want to start trolling......................

[ifishy]

thats a lot of good info on how to mount it for my boat (14ft with 5ft beam) i had many of the same issues ended up making a trolling board. I used a piece of pressure treated lumber across the back 2x6 made sure to seal it with thompsons and bolted it through the gunnels with some heavy duty 4 inch bolts. i re-seal it every couple years but it has held up so far for the last 6 with no signs of cracking or spliting. bolt the rigger right to the board but use a backing plate or large washers on the underside. When i'm alone i fish the rigger oppisit the stearing wheel for balance if you only have one mount it oppisit your usuall sitting side. i also have extra rod holders and my adjustable holders that i can angle for dipseys off of this board makes a nice platform to add on to. ended up doing something similar over the bow for my homade planer mast. a little creativity and you can get away for real cheap with some of this. I plan on going out this weekend i will take some pics if i get a chance. i've been accused of haveing to many rods before as if, but my boat has been gutted and entirely re-built in order to troll. remember if you dont have a swivle or clamp base your rigger is sticking out just asking to run into somthing during launching towing or put away worth thinking about long term

[Nessmuk]

Ifishy

My little 12' boat doesn't have wheel steering so a "trolling board" won't fit due to tiller. Having looked at the Cannon gunwale clamp the forces are probably less than I thought. My main concern is bouncing in waves action using the boom as a lever. I'll probably make an over built aluminum bracket to mount on the transom.

Sk8man

I looked at the "Black" releases on line but they appear not to be available locally. Scotty releases seem to be most common but I'm not sure if they are adjustable. Also looked at Cannon releases which are adjustable.

[ioiosoiwork]

"Welcome to buying more stuff" Déjà vu ?

[Nessmuk]

"Welcome to buying more stuff" Déjà vu ?

Welllllllll, maybe but maybe not.....

I have the tools/materials to make the mount I don't like the Cannon clamp on mount which is also way way expensive for what it is! Why should that chunk of aluminum cost 1/3 the cost of a DR So I'll make the mount from some scrap aluminum.

I also have the knowledge and technology here to make a weight mold and cast the weight But..... I don't want to do any lead casting so will probably look around for a used 4-6# weight Time to hit the local second shops.

So far I have spent $270. I need the smaller weight, spoons, leader material, hipboots (for when the brown smelly stuff gets too deep on LOU ) The way I am going at it so far I hope to be set up for trolling for <$400 when all is said and done. We'll see

The price of fish dinner is getting pretty steep All this started with me buying a little boat to go fishing once in a while. One of my favorite fishing holes is way polluted w/o much life due to Canada Geese (Mendon Ponds). Had to put anchor line in the washing machine after that visit. Another, Silver Lake, a place of childhood memories, is full of 6" sunfish and 7" perch. Caught lots of tiny fish but nothing like back in the '50s. A visit to Hemlock/Canadice struck my fancy (at least a beautiful place) and some reading got me started on this trolling thing. I'm also interested in the St. Lawrence but that is another story.

The worst part is that my poor dad, 85, still driving, is having problems. Phone calls from doctors/SW/etc. and I am his only local relative who drives so we'll see if I have time and gas budget to fish since I will be the care giver.

"If it's not one thing, it's another, it's always something" Roseanne Rosanadana AKA Guilda Radner SNL

[Sk8man]

If you want a CHEAP cannonball here's a suggestion: Get some fine sand like that used in a sandbox for kids and make a mold by using a tennisball or something about that size to make an impression in the sand and go to a n auto junkyard and see if you can get a carburator float to be used as the "rudder" on the ball. Buy some junk lead (scrapyard?) and melt it down with a blowtorch etc. Place the carburator float in the mold you've created with half sticking out of the "ball" shape (sideways). Use a piece of heavy coat hanger and make an "eyelet" with a few inches long to be bent into a "y" to be submerged in the lead to hold the eyelet in. Pour the lead and let cool. Brush the sand off and you are set to go. What I'd do is get some of that Plastic dip (likeyou use to dip tool handles in) from Lowes and either dip or brush the ball with it and hang it up to dry so it doesn't mar your boat and you are not in contact with the lead all the time.

[Nessmuk]

Interesting concept for making a weight. I just shut down a metal/plastic casting business and have the ability to make a proper mold via cnc and cast the lead weight. Reality is that it is a lot of messing about and the cost of buying lead isn't cheap. Even the auto repair shops get paid for wheel weights! A lot easier to just find one for sale.

Trying to decide if 4lb is enough for more or less 80' down

[Sk8man]

4 pounds will be too light....the wire will arch back too far (too great an angle) to have any idea of where your lure is at ....essentially defeating the purpose of the downrigger itself. The best selection would be 7or 8 pounds in my experience for your situation.....for larger boats 10-12 pounds seems the usual weight used. I use 8 pounders most of the time but have the heavier ones for ocassional very deep trolling for lakers in derbies (e.g. 150-200ft) used on limited basis. Trolliing for rainbows, browns and landlocks it usually isn't necessary or desired to go below 100ft so the smaller weights suffice. This may be especially true for lakes like Canadice and Hemlock as they are small lakes and pretty protected from large waves unlike Seneca, Cayuga and Lake Ontario etc. so you need less weight than one those lakes.

[Sk8man]

As far as the Black release vs. the others......in my view there is no comparison as far as the control over the tension for varying conditions. As I mentioned before they make several models of them here is the one that I think is best for all around use (outriggers and downriggers) http://www.basspro.com/Black-39;s-Outri ... LL_PRODUCT

I have modified a couple so that I can use them on other peoples boats when I fish with them using their downriggers without any installation concerns....just can snap them on their existing snap where the ball goes and then hook the ball on the bottom of the release ( have added a heavy duty downrigger snap to the bottom of them). Again, it is a PREFERENCE issue and everyone has their own views on the best release method. All I am saying is that after many years of experimentation with nearly all the other releases and my homemade versions as well I always return to the Black releases for my downriggers and my outriggers.

Les

[Nessmuk]

Do you think a 6# weight would get me down to 100' w/o drifting back and lifting. I'd like to go as light as possible and most of my trolling would be in Hemlock/Canadice and maybe Keuka. The other possibility is St. Lawrence river but that isn't likely. I have a 10# weight so maybew I should stick with it?

I was looking at a picture of a cannon release which also appears to be adjustable. I like the idea of the cannon release being on an 18" leader which would allow me to attach with out messing with the heavy weight.

[Sk8man]

Try the 10 lb and see what you think.....The main object is to get down to where you want to be...if it exerts too much tension go to a smaller weight (your preference) but remember that the higher your trolling speed and the lighter the ball your lure will be rising at an angle and will not be at the depth indicated on your downriggers depth meter. The lighter the ball and more extreme the angle (and higher your speed) the further off the actual depth of the lure will be. Heavier weight tends to keep the lure straighter down and hence more closely aligned with the reading on your downrigger. Re: the Cannon release. When I tried the Cannon release on Lake Ontario some time ago I used a large dodger and fly (fishing for slamon) and the dodger got twisted around that 18 inch leader and I lost the dodger and fly (I was running close to the ball which is common). If you are goijng touse dodger/fly or SpinDoctors/fly etc. I would not suggest using one.

[Nessmuk]

I assume that given any weight at 100' down it will move aft when the boat moves forward and the question is how much. Most of what I am reading about trolling for lake trout says troll SLOW. Slow to me seems to be in the 1-2.5 mph range? Can you see your weight on your sonar and if so can you tell how far back it is or is it just a line on the display?

I'm not exactly sure about how you are loosing your rig on the leader and release. I was thinking of the fly or spoon being on a fluro leader at least 8-12' aft of the release.

[Sk8man]

Trolling speed is RELATIVE to the particular boat you are in, current, and the particular instrument you use to measure it. Two boats trolling side by side may have two different readings depending on these and other factors. The range you suggested is about right for lakers and the upper end of it applies to rainbows as well. You also need to vary your speed with the lures and other equipment used (e.g. flutter spoons, stick baits or dogers/fly or Spin Doctors all may have different optimal speeds). I usually run whatever I'm using at the boat level and OBSERVE it to see ifit is running OK. It still may be somewhat different at depth because of currents etc.

The reason I lost the dodger/fly described earlier is that on a TURN it got twisted up in the 18 inch release leader and whenI pulled up on the downrigger rod the line which was wrapped around it the leader snapped.

[Nessmuk]

Now I understand the issue. Sounds like a swivel might have helped with the release leader? A lot of what I have been reading in books shows line to swivel to leader to lure/fly. It seems that a dodger or spindoctor would require a swivel.

I bought a Luhr Jensen speed indicator and assume it is relatively accurate. I'm leary of other speed indicators after looking at how they work. Even the Jensen has issues in weeds and junk in the water. The price was right so I got it with the DR and it had never been used.

Going to spend some time designing the DR bracket tonight.

[Sk8man]

The downrigger ball MAY show up on the depth finder. It depends on where your downrigger is LOCATED onthe boat with respect to the transducer location, the specific cone angle of your transducer, your boat speed and the speed at the ball (which may be affected by currents), whether you are turning away from or toward the transducer. If it shows up on your depth finder (i.e. is in the cone angle) it will probably show as a straight line (of sorts) and possibly a little "wavy". Unless you run a real expensive unit this will be about it and it is an "approximation" of the depth your ball is running at (may be a foot or two off) and usually your lure does not show up and depending on speed and whether you are turning etc. the lure may be up dpwn or to the side of the line you see (theball) . Fish chasing the lure or coming up or down (moving) may show as "streaks" or lines or even as fish icons on some units.

[Sk8man]

I know this may sound a bit strange but....in a sense it doesn't make any difference what kind of trolling speed indicator you use if it is a surface oriented one (like the Luhr Jensen or one that uses an impeller to measure the water ( spinning the impeller). The speed is RELATIVE to the boat itself and not your LURE per se. That is why I suggested that you check your lure action at the surface so that you will have SOME idea of the particular action at the speed that is indicated on the speed indicator .What IS important is that you learn what speed READINGS on whatever indicator you use seem to catch the species of fish you seek. I used to keep a small piece of tape handy when I used that type of indicator in the old days and when I caught a trout I'd place the thin piece of colored tape at the mark I caught the fish and return to that tape mark (because you sometimes forget the exact one on the indicator) and I varied the color tape with the species that way thenext time out I started at those points andthen re-established new onesas needed. The "expensive" speed indicators measure speed at the BALL (or lure) and that is a whole different process.

[Nessmuk]

This is the DR bracket I designed for inside the transom of the dink. The bracket will be whittled from 6" aluminum channel. The joints will be epoxied and bolted. It will be bolted to the inside of the transom and require some spacers near the bottom.

[Nessmuk]

I know this may sound a bit strange but....in a sense it doesn't make any difference what kind of trolling speed indicator you use if it is a surface oriented one (like the Luhr Jensen or one that uses an impeller to measure the water ( spinning the impeller). The speed is RELATIVE to the boat itself and not your LURE per se. That is why I suggested that you check your lure action at the surface so that you will have SOME idea of the particular action at the speed that is indicated on the speed indicator .What IS important is that you learn what speed READINGS on whatever indicator you use seem to catch the species of fish you seek. I used to keep a small piece of tape handy when I used that type of indicator in the old days and when I caught a trout I'd place the thin piece of colored tape at the mark I caught the fish and return to that tape mark (because you sometimes forget the exact one on the indicator) and I varied the color tape with the species that way thenext time out I started at those points andthen re-established new onesas needed. The "expensive" speed indicators measure speed at the BALL (or lure) and that is a whole different process.

It sounds like you are talking about lure action and not progress forward?

[Sk8man]

The bracket LOOKS good....just make sure the angle of the face of it clears everything (eg. with your rods actually IN the rod holders and the holders themselves etc. as well as the transom. Try to locate it as far as possible from the motor taking into consideration where you will be sitting. It wouldn't make much difference on a big boat but on your 12 footer balance is important (when you get the 10 lb weight on etc.).

Re: lure speed vs. speed of the boat: If you are racing - speed of the boat is of concern....you on the other hand are concerned with LURE PRESENTATION to catch fish. That is why I said that the readings on the speed indicator are RELATIVE because you are trying to assess specifically what the CHANGES in boat speed do to the LURE rather than what the boat is doing.....the boat is basically a PLATFORM from which you fish in places you can't access from shore...it is a TOOL as are the items you choose to use to catch the fish. All these things can distract you from your main purpose if you lose your focus. A lot of people out there spend their time totally consumed with the technology and looking at the fish finder screen and then wonder why they aren't catching fish. Spend your time assessing the changes in your behavior and what impact it has on your success rate and you will be successful regardless of the particular "toys" you are using to get the fish.

[Nessmuk]

Amazingly, I have only one location on the transom that allows everything to work with the DR in place due to the size of the transom and motor. Did lotsa holding the DR in place and moving motor etc. Did some arithmetic and calculate 60-70# load on the DR w/10# weight mount and that can be multiplied given some wave action. Can't imagine the Cannon clamp being very good for those loads given the small surface area of the clamp.

I have to mount the transducer directly below the DR. Do you see a problem with that? Seems like I will need to be careful not to bang the transducer with the weight.

Being a fair fly fisherman I understand importance of lure (fly) presentation! Spent a lot of time learning to put a fly where I want it and in a way to present it drag free. I could care less what the boat is doing but do care that the lure is getting proper action and is moving at a speed that LT are apt to consider fair game for an attack. I plan to start with small by your standards, 2"-2.5" Sutton spoons. Wondering about having anything ahead of it?

[Sk8man]

Given that you have an 18 inch boom and don't have options for placement you will need to be careful regarding the transducer as they can be damaged pretty easily by being banged with the ball so I wouldn't let it "hang" in the water near the transom for any reason when there is wave action etc.

The 2- 2 1/2 lures (light weight flutter spoons?) are the right size to start with.. . for starters I'd use them at the end of a good (fairly small) ball bearing swivel and run the line out about 30-40 ft to start experimenting. Sometimes the lakers hit the lure run right up close to the ball (3-6 ft) especially down deep. Rainbows often respond better to longer lengths (e.g. 75 ft or more). I'd get used to things as simple as possible at first until you get the hang of it and then progress to dodgers/fly or SpinDoctors, the use of sliders etc.

[Sk8man]

I just happened to think ....you'll also have be be real careful when you are retrieving the ball (e.g. especially during rough waves) not to bang into the transducer.

[Nessmuk]

Agreed but..... This tiny boat probably won't see the rough weather you probably do. I've been on L Ontario and don't have any plans on taking this little bathtub there

[Sk8man]

Good luck with it! Remember during the all cursing and struggling you'll be doing out there....it's supposed to be FUN! :>)

[Nessmuk]

Good luck with it! Remember during the all cursing and struggling you'll be doing out there....it's supposed to be FUN! :>)

Cursing and struggling? Not me Most of my cursing so far has been at the crummy boat launches in New York state. I really like Canadice and Hemlock but the launch sites are dreadful. I'm also not much of a motor boat type so dislike dealing with gas/oil etc.

I was hoping to get out once before the snow but that isn't likely. I figure if I'm not having fun by the end of next summer the boat will go but that's doubtful. I have enjoyed fishing and now it is a matter of finding fish and maybe catching a few. I am hoping to be able to move to Cape Vincent before I am too feeble to enjoy a day on the water.