Salmon fishing for beginners "HELP"

[pescado]

Hello All,

I have been fishing for 30 years and love it, the last 15 years i have been chasing muskie around the Kawartha's and Georgian Bay.

The driving to these locations all though beautiful have become challenging and costly. Considering i live in Toronto 5min away from Lake Ontario one of the best Salmon fisheries around it only makes sense to begin a more serious approach to Salmon fishing. I bought a new boat and now have the pleasure of outfitting it with all the equipment necessary for salmon fishing. My question to you fellow anglers is, how should i get started? i have read lots of material on equipment and techniques for salmon fishing but i would love to hear from the guys that actually fish these waters. I will be installing two down riggers and using up to four rods to start. Keep in mind i am a beginner, i would like to know with only four rods available what kind of set up would be best. I will be fishing out of Bluffer's and once i gain knowledge and experience i will most certainly contribute back to fellow fisherman, for now "HELP"

1.What size reel should i be looking at? How much line should it hold? Should i buy four of the same? Should they have line counters?

2.What type of rods? again should they be all the same?

3.What type of line? Should i have a mix of mono,lead core,braided?

4.What would be a good selection of lures to begin with?

5.What speed should i be trolling at? I know this changes due to conditions but just a starting point will help.

6.What size of cannon balls?

7.Any info pertaining to fishing Bluffer's is welcome

8.Where's the fish? (just kidding)

WOW, Who ever answers all of this totally deserve's at the very least a Double Double from Tim's

Pescado Out!

[on the lam]

I think first thing you should do is get a part time job, as this will cost $$.. there will be lots of opinions as to what to buy and how to deploy it, but the best advise I would give is spend money on a good charter in the spring and bring a pad and paper. You will be able to gather more info in one day than in any other way.

As far as riggin the boat with riggers, rod holders etc., thats something that can be accomplished here, but as most will tell you rods, reels and tackle is a matter of personal prefrence as it pertains to style and brand. getting your hands on some reputable captains equiptment may shorten the learning curve. I still have stuff that I started with that I haven't touched since then! I guess its trial and error, and maybe thats half the fun. Good luck.

[pescado]

Thanks for the response Pete,

I like the idea of going out on a charter i'm sure lots of knowledge would be gained from it. I think i'll even take a GPS with me to record our travels. I guess the best way to put it is, If you had to chose one set up that consisted of four rods and one spread that you had to commit to, What would it be? This is fun

Thanks again,

Pescado

[pescado]

By the way Pete, NICE BOAT LOOKS GREAT, What kind is it?

[on the lam]

A four rod salmon spread is pretty simple. 2 Talora rigger rods 8'med. and 2 Talora dipsy rods 8' MH. all four could be fitted with Shimano Tekota 600 line counters for the divers, line counter or not for the rigger rods.

1000' ft. 30# wire for the divers, 20# to 30# mono for the riggers.

Now if you get into spring/summer kings, spoon rods, trout rods spring/summer, leadcore, copper, mono/power pro divers you may accumulate over 40 combos

[pescado]

Pete,

Would you recommend using 2 dipsy rods vs stacking the down riggers?

[TyeeTanic]

Pescado, I'll try and answer your questions:

1.What size reel should i be looking at? How much line should it hold? Should i buy four of the same? Should they have line counters?

You will want 2 rods for the riggers and 2 wire dipsey rods. Yes, I would take 2 wire dipsey over stacking rods on the down riggers ANY day. Most salmon are caught on the wire dipseys. It would be insane not to include them in a 4 rod spread. You will want to get 20 to 30 lb mono (flea flicker or big game) on the riggers, you will want about 600 feet or more on each reel. For the dispey wire rods you will want 7 strand, 30# wire, 1000 ft on the reel, and these reels must have line counters. Which one's you get depends on how much you want to spend. I have Oukuma Convector's (30D for the wire setup). They are very good value for the money and a good reel. There's definitely better like the Tekota's, but they are about 3 times more expensive!

2.What type of rods? again should they be all the same? For the riggers an 7 ft rod is good, medium to heavy action. For the wire dipseys you want 10 ft rods. This will allow the dipsey rod to reach over your rigger if a fish hits and the line centers without tangling into your rigger line. Make again is up to how much you want to spend. I have Rapala RSC's which are great value for money. I use a standard rod for my mono line and roller guide rods for my wire setup (cannot use normal line guides with wire). If you have big money to spend, go for the Telora's - a beautiful rod, very well built.

3.What type of line? Should i have a mix of mono,lead core,braided?

Don't use braid - the fleas will kill your day. As mentioned above start with 20 lb flea flicker or 30 lb big game mono on the rigger rods. 30# 7 strand wire for the wire dipsey rods.

4.What would be a good selection of lures to begin with?

Get 4" lures. Start with Northern King. Monkey Puke, Hawg Wilde, Watermelon, Gator, Purple Thunder, NGK patterns with green, Something blue/silver. Also get some flies - you will want greens, purples, reds, blues. You will need dipsey divers - get black if you can No 1 size. You will also need fluoro leaders, around 6 to 10 feet of it on each rod - use 30 # to start.

5.What speed should i be trolling at? I know this changes due to conditions but just a starting point will help.

Good speed is 2.5 - 3.0 mph. Sometimes they want slightly faster, no more than 3.5 mph, and sometimes slower 2.0 mph, but I always try and aim at the range I mentioned first.

6.What size of cannon balls?

I think the heaveier your rigger can handle the better, to limit blow back.

7.Any info pertaining to fishing Bluffer's is welcome

I fish West side of the lake.

8.Where's the fish? (just kidding)

All over! No joke, the trick is getting them to bite!

[Don Supon]

Good advice so far.

The riggers you decide upon should have high speed and auto-stop features. The ball weight is determined by the power of the rigger and motor. Buy the best. The heavier the ball, the better control you have. And heavier balls cost more.

Dipsy rods require rod holders (strong) and a way to mount them to the boat. If you are to purchase riggers with dual rod holders, consider that the dipsy rod needs to be close to parallel to the water. That requires an easily adjustable rod holder. But maybe you don't want to put that much pressure on your boat's gunnell (rigger mounting) if both set-ups are combined. The pressure to the gunnell is a combination of the pressures from the downrigger (15-20 lb weight down 60-100 ft) and the dipsey setup and the fish's striking force. Consider seperating these forces to multiple anchor points and be sure to have backing under the gunnell in each circumstance.

Losing an electric rigger, rod/reel, tackle etc. will easily cost you $1500. Don't take any chances.

[LongLine]

Welcome to the addiciton. My advice:

1. Don't leave home without the rigg'rs!

2. Spend more on reels than rods. Smooth drag is very important.

3. Landing a salmon on a 10ft rod is much different than using the same setup on a 6 1/2 ft'r.

4. Go for the torpedo or fish shaped weights. Stay away from balls and pancakes. Blowback and getting/keeping them adjusted properly (respectively) and be challenging, almost frustrating. When you buy rigg'r 's, make sure you know the capacity of them. Don't put a 20Lb weight on a rigg'r thats only rated for 15.

5. NEVER put the engine in reverse with rigg'rs out. Boat control is very important.

6. Don't take safety for granted!!!!!

7. Secure your gear when you're done fishing. There's too dang much thievery (sp - people stealing stuff) going on nowadays.

8. Get ideas on lures by looking thru the report sections. Look thru the classifieds or on-line to purchase gear. You have to know what you're looking for but sometimes can make a killing. Also look at the tournament results and scroll back thru some of the tweets. They often give good hints as to what was working at that time of year. (LOC, Pro-Am)

Good Luck

Tom B.

(LongLine)

[pescado]

This is great guys I'm loving this site.

The info everyone has provided is awesome. Tom's comments on load distribution has me a little concerned now. My boat is a Sea Fox 204CF the only way i can mount equipment and secure it with backing plates would require me to drill large holes to access under the gunnel walls as my walls are totally enclosed. With that being said i was looking to mount all my equipment using gimbals. My boat has four factory supplied rod holders. Im thinking of using the back two for the riggers and the two closer to the front for dipsy's. What your opinion?

Thanks everyone.

[BAZOOKAJOE]

Yup...that's the way you want to do it! The daiwa sealine reels are great for wire or mono. Not too expensive either. I like a 8 ft 3 in ugly stik for rigger rods and the 10 footer for wire.

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[Don Supon]

Gimbal mounts will work. And your distribution of the equipment a plus. I agree with Daiwa reels. Line counters a must for the dipsey rods.

[Yankee Troller]

Your best bet would be to observe in the Spring and Summer tightline events at Bluffers Park. That event is attracting more and more top American teams, and all the top Canadian teams fish it. No better way to learn than to fish with them in practice, and then head on over to another ride to watch how they do it in a tourney.

If you need more info about these let me know and I can get you in contact with the right people. heck we are always looking for a local to observe for us in these events.

[Richard]

All above is great advice. I did not read it all so excuse me if it was mentioned before. I know it was mentioned to take a charter. This is great advice but does cost a few dollars and you should do it. Another way to get first hand knowledge and cost nothing or get paid for it is to be an observer on a tournament boat. All year there are teams posting the need for an observer. These teams are some of the better fishermen you can find in some tough fishing conditions. There are also some great non tournament teams out there that also are looking for a fishing partner for a day or to, so keep an eye on the posts. You will see these posts for a partner or two here and there. As for your questions.

1.What size reel should i be looking at? How much line should it hold? Should i buy four of the same? Should they have line counters? ( I like all my reels to hold about 1000 feet of line weather it be wire, mono, or backing for other presentations. Diawa or Akuma make some great reels. The sealine or convectors will do just fine)

2.What type of rods? again should they be all the same? ( They will not be all the same and would depend on the presentation. I would start with some of the cheaper brands and know you will upgrade later. If you have the extra money now you can bye some better brands but I think you would be better now to bye a better reel than rod)

3.What type of line? Should i have a mix of mono,lead core,braided? (mono for the riggers and wire for the divers to start. You will add lead core and copper later once you get the hang of the fishery)

4.What would be a good selection of lures to begin with? ( lures are different for every individual. What works for me does not work for my friend. I like the dolphin colors and the frog in glow and reg. patterns to start)

5.What speed should i be trolling at? I know this changes due to conditions but just a starting point will help. (2.7 gps to start. Go faster and slower till you get hits. As you stated it will change day by day but @.7 in the niagara area seams to work very well for me.

6.What size of cannon balls? ( I like the 13# torpedo weights like A-tom-mic sells)

7.Any info pertaining to fishing Bluffer's is welcome (I do not know exactly your area, but the St. Catherine's area is great in the spring.)

8.Where's the fish? (just kidding) See #7 50 to 80 feet down)

Good luck and tight lines

[pescado]

Wow,

I am so happy i joined this site, everyone has been so helpful and i want to thank all for taking the time to answer my questions. Yankee Troller please do send info for people looking for a observer this sounds like a great way to gain experience. I fell like i can now make some knowledgable purchases thanks to everyone. I'm sure i'll have many more questions but now look forward to the chatter.

Thanks Again

Pescado Out!

[Yankee Troller]

Tentatively the dates for the Tightline events out of Bluffers Park marina are - 6/15 & 8/3

Keep an eye on here a month or so before hand as well as on Spoonpullers (Canadian Board) for people looking for an observer. Hell, if you want to do both for us let's get r dun!

[bonzo]

It wasnt mentioned in the above advise but wont he need snubbers for the wire setups?

[BAZOOKAJOE]

No need for snubbers. Keep the drag a little loose and use mono for a leader.

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