Allow trained and approved teachers to CCW

[Tall Tails]

Seems we are on the right track again. The media I am sure will avoid this because it is not part of there agenda.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/159422/stop- ... ealth.aspx

[LongLine]

So what is the background check all about? What are the criteria whether you can own a gun or not?

Federal Categories of Persons Prohibited From Receiving (a gun)

The federally prohibiting criteria are as follows:

• A person who has been convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year or any state offense classified by the state as a misdemeanor and is punishable by a term of imprisonment of more than two years.

• Persons who are fugitives of justice

• An unlawful user and/or an addict of any controlled substance; for example, a person convicted for the use or possession of a controlled substance within the past year; or a person with multiple arrests for the use or possession of a controlled substance within the past five years with the most recent arrest occurring within the past year; or a person found through a drug test to use a controlled substance unlawfully, provided the test was administered within the past year.

• A person adjudicated mental defective or involuntarily committed to a mental institution or incompetent to handle own affairs

• A person who is illegally or unlawfully in the United States.

• A person who has been admitted to the United States under a non-immigrant visa.

• A person dishonorably discharged from the United States Armed Forces.

• A person who has renounced his/her United States citizenship.

• The subject of a protective order issued after a hearing in which the respondent had notice that restrains them from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or child of such partner. This does not include ex parte orders.

• A person convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime which includes the use or attempted use of physical force or threatened use of a deadly weapon and the defendant was the spouse, former spouse, parent, guardian of the victim, by a person with whom the victim shares a child in common, by a person who is cohabiting with or has cohabited in the past with the victim as a spouse, parent, guardian or similar situation to a spouse, parent or guardian of the victim.

• A person who is under indictment or information for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/g ... fact-sheet

Looks to me like you’re only disqualified if you have a bad court record; are an alien or were dishonorably discharged. Even the “nut cases†had to have been “adjudicated.†i think we all agree that "nut cases" shouldn't have guns. I didn’t hear if the shooter had been adjudicated or did he qualify for approval by the criteria above? Anyone know?

[Tim Bromund]

If not, he should have been. We can all thank the ACLU for making it impossible to treat the mentally ill.

Actually he was, he tried to buy a gun (or guns) the week prior and was rejected because of his past psychological issues. That's why the psycho murdered his mother and stole her guns.

[Patriot]

First of all, we live in a society that is so diverse that nothing is 100% and stuff is going to happen, no matter what.

Other than confiscating all fire arms (and that’s not going to happen, I hope), things that would greatly help are:

1; Educate gun owners that need to know the what, how and where. Mainly, keep your fire arms in a gun safe or use trigger locks. Especially if you know there are unstable individuals living in your household.

2; Cut down on violent movies, violent video games and even violent reality shows.

3; Put real cops with scary looking guns in the schools. A scary looking gun makes a difference. You know they mean business.

Like I said before Government offices have armed guards, why shouldn’t schools? Taxes will go up but oh well.

The good old days are long gone.

Remember the lyrics from the song by Tim McGraw “Back When� When a screw was a screw , when a hoe was a hoe, a Coke was a coke…

[skipper19]

First of all, we live in a society that is so diverse that nothing is 100% and stuff is going to happen, no matter what.

Other than confiscating all fire arms (and that’s not going to happen, I hope), things that would greatly help are:

1; Educate gun owners that need to know the what, how and where. Mainly, keep your fire arms in a gun safe or use trigger locks. Especially if you know there are unstable individuals living in your household.

2; Cut down on violent movies, violent video games and even violent reality shows.

3; Put real cops with scary looking guns in the schools. A scary looking gun makes a difference. You know they mean business.

Like I said before Government offices have armed guards, why shouldn’t schools? Taxes will go up but oh well.

The good old days are long gone.

Remember the lyrics from the song by Tim McGraw “Back When� When a screw was a screw , when a hoe was a hoe, a Coke was a coke…

Your right, any gun is scary looking and if we only heard how many times a gun was uncovered to defend a life and never fired. We will never know that. But i'll bet it is 1000s of times more often than a tragedy in a school. A uniform is comforting, even when there is a gun in sight ...I wonder.

[ Post made via Android ]

[Chas0218]

Yep – totally fruitless.

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/06/23/ ... n-turn-in/

http://www.myfoxphilly.com/story/203757 ... ds-of-guns

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/1 ... 15105.html

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2012-1 ... -gift-card

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-new ... source=rss

Even Dallas did it a couple years ago:

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Dallas ... earms.html

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

Your irrational fears have no bearing on anyone else rights.

I feel so much safer & happier knowing that so many middle age & older citizen households have guns and are ready and able to defend our country against the US government and its standing army. You know, these older people who had their backgrounds checked years & years ago and in the last few years have experienced stresses such as job losses, housing foreclosures, lost kin, divorces, changes in health, etc. If you feel so much more secure with guns in your household, more power to you – God bless you. Hopefully you have them stored properly so your kids don't mess with them.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/150353/Self- ... -1993.aspx

I wonder how many actually served in the “shooting†military. Gun owners I know never had a deer shoot back at them. But hey, everybody’s a quarterback on Sunday and knows what play to call, although only a few know what it’s like to be caught in the pocket by a 280Lb tackler.

BTW the automatic weapon ban expired in 2004 & hasn’t been re-enacted.

Well here’s some breaking news – NRA calls for armed security at all schools. Hey what about shopping malls? Theatres? Festivals? How big of a gun do we give them – they’ll probably always be out gunned & claiming they don’t have enough firepower. (like the Police did) Hopefully he'll be wired so he can call for backup. How does one security officer cover all entrances/exits? Even putting metal detectors in schools was controversial.

Every time one of these shootings happen either they walk through the front door or are already in the school. Being a teacher I know first hand our school's doors are all locked from the inside and unless you have a key or fob you cannot get in without breaking down the door. Would a police officer be a deterrent? Hell ya it would be.

[ Post made via Android ]

[Sk8man]

Three things: 1) We need to change the way we view, treat, and intervene with mental illnesses in this country. It is essential to identify vulnerable people, offer families the ability to quickly admit or directly access intervention services for violently behaving relatives. Currently, people have to commit CRIMES before that intervention can take place (e.g. by having them arrested and then assessed etc.)

2) There is no place in our civilian society where there is a demonstrable need for assault weapons, high capacity magazines (over 10 rounds) - and anyone that needs that many rounds for any reason has no business with a gun of any type if their marksmanship is that poor. 3) There needs to be a stance taken by our society, by the legislators at the Federal level (so that all states have to comply in a standard way) and the supreme Court to develop clear guidelines for hollywood and the developers of violent video games such that graphic depiction of violent acts toward authority figures and others is not premitted by law. I understand the ramifications as far as First Ammendment rights, but the safety and welfare of our children and citizenry should trump an individuals (or business or organizations) right to so called "free speech". We need to "short-circuit" the connection between depictions of violence and the carrying out of random violent acts by dysfunctional people in our society. This will not totally stop these acts but it may limit them and alllow more opportunity/time for intervention by law enforcement and other professionals. I am saying this after spending over thirty years as mental health professional and after having formerly been in the military (Viet Nam era) and trained (as an expert) in the use of assault weapons (and many other related weapons). This is not the stance of an "anti-gun nut" but rather a common sense view that something needs to be done and NOW.

[Sk8man]

P.S. If we are going to allow the carrying of firearms in the schools it should be done only by a police officer or safety officer properly trained in their use and thoroughly "screened" before assuming that position. We do not need to have our children terrified or "feeling threatened" by knowing their teachers are carrying guns....they have (and need to have) a very different supportive role from that of the policeman or safety officer stationed there.

[Has Been]

I am all for having armed law enforcement at our schools. A bit of a stepping stone for any would be incident of many kinds.

While we are at it maybe at school we could have a gun safety program to introduce those that do not or have not had access to it at home. And why not, our kids are bombarded and endoctrinated each day to lib points of view. It could only help.

Let them know that guns are not toys & should be respected. And also where you wind up if you don't make the right choices with them.

[skipjack]

Why is it that it is the gun to blame, and not the people and parents of those that do this stuff. I am so tired of hearing this assault weapons and high capacity magazine crap. Semi auto 22s have had a high capacity of 10 or more for years. Don't hear of them being targeted by bleeding heart anti gun people. They will kill just as easy as any of them. Trust me my cousin was killed by one. I have owned and do own ars. And love to shoot them. Many people use them for comp. Shooting. So why is it that thousands of people that use them for targets get punished. Me I rarely need more then one shot on game that's why I use a muzzy all deer season. I swear by the saying aim small miss small. But the pointing of the finger at the type of gun needs to stop. I have carried a bolt gun in combat and I can tell you that they kill just as easy and as many as the black gun. Something needs to change with this world and the way we do things. We should look else where for the solution to the shootings. How many of you grew up with guns that where locked up. I didn't and I can tell you my kids haven't. I was taught to respect fire arms and I passed that down. I don't think the movies are the problem we all grew up with war movies. But these video games that's another story they need to go. We as sportsmen need to stick together wether you fish or hunt or both. We have enough problems with the animal activist, and believe it or not they don't like fishing ether, to fight amongst ourselves. Believe me the firearms I have in my closet is not the problem. Sorry for the rant I just get alittle upset any time the anti gun crap comes up. By the way I have a four year old in prek and one who will graduate this spring so I do understand.

[ Post made via Android ]

[chinook35]

I just sent off a letter to my state senator advocating the training and arming of teachers and school administrators . If the heroes, Ms. Sherlach and Ms. Soto , had been armed maybe the only casulaties would have been the shooter and his mother . I have given this much thought and done a lot of soul searching and find that this is a reasonable precaution . We can't afford to put police in every school and the employees of all school districts undergo through background checks . These checks and training can be an ongoing (yearly) requirement. I am and always have been a backer of the NRA . I am a gun owner ,but my hunting days are behind me . I can't afford to chase salmon and Bambi too . But , maybe it's time to ban private ownership of assault ( NOT SEMI - AUTOMATIC ) rifles with high capacity magazines . The AR-15 type rifles in 5.56 mm( .223 caliber) ase not legal for hunting big game and way too powerful for small game . This type of weapon served me well in the Nam , but I can't see any reason to own one now . I agree that mental health issues need to be addressed , but hold very little hope of that happening . Even our military balks at taking on that issue . Wayne LaPierre is right when he said " the only thing that will stop a BAD man with a gun , is a GOOD man with a gun" . Rant over . Come on spring ,rods are ready .

[skipjack]

5.56 /.223 is legal to hunt big game. And the ar is a great choice for predator calling. Why do you think they are the most used now for predators. Not to mention all the bigger calibers for bigger game that is available for the ar platform. You will have to pan them all. I would put a good off the shelf ar against any other so called traditional firearm wether bolt or semi, for accuracy.

[ Post made via Android ]

[chinook35]

I stand corrected I was under the impression that a rifle had to be at leaste .24 caliber to be legal for big game . The law now states center fire . There are plenty of great guns on the market for varmint shooting . The Ar-15 may be one of them . But my choice would be a 742 Remington . we could argue the merits of one gun against anoter till the cows come home . I love the M-16 A1 /AR15 . Enough said . Does it have a place in my arsenal ?

It did , it doesn't any more .

[LongLine]

Hiring officers for each school has some merit…

NYS has 5,001 Public & 2,567 Private schools, not including PreK sites per the Dept of Ed. (Rochester has 59 schools + 60 preK sites) The average city police officer is paid 42K/yr (accepted as near lowest in state). We can figure in 30% for “fringe benefits, so it’s closer to $54.6K/yr. In rough numbers we’d have to hire 7,568 officers at a cost of $413,212,000. (Ignoring the $400 pistol each, psycho evaluation, training; any other “perks/feesâ€; and definitely ignoring administrative payroll)

There are 7,200,000 households in NYS according to the last census, so the average cost to each household would be approx $57. Not too bad I guess. Unless you’re on a fixed income (14% of New Yorkers) or unemployed (approx 8.5%) or voted for the politicians that you believed wouldn’t increase taxes.

Well it’s going to be a raise in taxes someplace. All these cops nationwide are going to cost something. Hmmmm…in order to protect society from 2nd hand smoke, taxes on tobacco went sky high. To protect society from flying terrorists, they instituted an aviation excise tax to pay TSA so I guess it’s just logical to protect society from gun violence that they increase the excise tax on guns. (???) But that’s not right as guns don’t kill people. I think we all agree on that. Besides excise tax would only be on new guns. Actually, it’s the bullets that do the mass damage. How about a major increase on ammunition & powder excise taxes?

[Has Been]

We pretty are much forced to send our kids to school. Turn them over each day to strangers. It is the responsibility for the school to make sure that my child is safe from harm no matter what. In this last incident , for what ever reason, the school did not fulfill its obligation. Now that the NRA and others are calling for more protection , if it is not insituted, and there is a similar incident, I would think that the lawyers would be coming out of the woodwork,if they are not already. Letting this happen again without proper precautions could be seen as negligence. We waste money on everything in the education system today. This to me is important.

If a tax levy is put on guns and ammo to help pay for it,I could see why it would be justified.

And the second amendment was not put in the constitution to guarantee your hunting rights,boys . Those who do not know history....................

[Hookedup]

Why tax guns and ammo? Why not tax everyone who doesn't own property and doesn't pay school taxes. I pay thousands a year yet some dirt bag with ten kids in school who lives in an apartment gets away with out paying a dime. Raise sales tax one percent give it to schools and lower landowners school tax.

[ Post made via Android ]

[LongLine]

The motto of the US dept of Education is "Education for all." Most Police forces use some form of the motto: "To serve & protect." I'd vote that the schools contract the job to police officers. I would not hire "cop wan'nabees."

Renters do pay school taxes thru their rent, albeit considerably less than the individual home owner. In fact people who don't have kids in school but own houses have to pay school taxes.

I saw the "meet the press" interview with the VP of NRA this morning. If I was a member of the nra, I'd resign & demand my membership dues back.

At Columbine, a Jefferson County Police Officer had been assigned to the school. His name was Gardner and he had held the job for the past 2 years of his 15 yrs on the force. The shooters killed 15 kids & wounded 23 others.

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2000/columb ... S_TEXT.htm

[Tim Bromund]

Could have been much worse if the homeowner wasn't armed

http://www.news10.net/news/article/2221 ... e-invasion

[LongLine]

I wonder what the robbers were after…probably the guns in the house.

Turn on your TV – Breaking news at the mouth of I-Bay. Two houses burning! Two firefighters has been taken to Strong Memorial with gunshot wounds. Police are looking for the shooter who is still at large.

Probably will be worse if the shooters have automatic weapons or 60 round magazines.

[LongLine]

Whether or not they had "big guns"....two firefighters are dead and two in guarded condition according to the Webster Police chief press conference a few minutes ago.

My prayers go out to the families and I hope the two in intensive care pull through it.

Tom B.

(LongLine)

[on the lam]

Longline... what is your position concerning armed air marshall's on planes? It seemed like a good idea after 9/11. Actually president Kennedy was the first to enact the program in the 60's

Are the lives of children less important than air passengers? Btw. Haven't seen many armed hijackings lately

[ Post made via Android ]

[LongLine]

Pete - I had no issue with armed air marshalls on planes. I did have a big problem with the "ordinary" guy sitting next to me carrying ccw though. At least I knew the marshalls underwent some form of periodic training and testing.

So if armed marshall's on the planes solved the problem, how come we have so many TSA agents at every airport screening passengers for dangerous stuff today?????? That's why there's fewer armed hijackings. Seems to me that some prevention is the better way to go. At least I know a person won't shoot another if he doesn't have a gun.

What's that guy say: "Doctor, Doctor, it hurts when I do this". Doctor's reply: "Don't do that."

BTW - If Kennedy initiated the program - How'd he & the govener make out? Also remember that the entire Secret Service & the president were forewarned of a high probablity of violence happening. Single bolt action, high powered rifle? Hundreds of Police & Secret service around. Wouldn't have happened if Oswald didn't have the gun.

Tom B.

(LongLine)

[skipper19]

The issue of dangers to society are not going to go away, even if all the guns go away. Countries where they don't have guns, are quick to cover up the fact they DO have guns. The ones that are used in crimes are kept to a low key as not to alarm the citizens and perpetuate the false sense of security that the govenments want the people to believe in. The socialists, communists, etc. Would like their people to believe they have it all under control. The United States freedom of speech, keeps crime at the forefront and it is exploited by the media, good or bad.

So far China and countries like it, don't have guns in public...but the chefs cleaver, the knives that aren't registered, and the craftsmans hammers are dangerous weapons used in over a half dozen attacks on school children in two years with 22 dead and 90 injured. Those perps are still breathing after they are chased.

Schools seem only intrested in what's going on INSIDE the school. Locks are used and all was suppose to be safe on the inside. Well at some point the doors have to be unlocked for PEOPLE to pass thru. Narrow the point of entry and you need only one armed police officer, but what are you going to do with the kids after they are in the school yard, on the busses, exiting the school because of an emergency.Manufactured Emergencies like the staged fires in irodequiot can be exploited and used to draw people out in the open and in a large gathering. What are we going to do to protect all the 600 people coming out? One armed cop is going to have to be superman. Maybe there should be guard towers overlooking the yard...no maybe not looks like a prison then.

Locked doors are not enough, one armed cop is not enough and your tax dollars for that can't pay enough for the uniformed man with police training.

So the guy who shoots the firemen is identified by Webster policemen as a whack job that shot his grandmother 17 years ago, and was parolled. Then shoots his dumbass self after this fireman attack.. The media will again immortalize this sub human.

So now what, maybe the firemen need to pack their own heat as part of their turnout gear? At least maybe they would have been able to fight the fire instead of being pinned down for an hour by this turd. Why does our justice system let killers out of prison like that? The nut should not be let out, we kept this piece of fecal matter alive with taxes for 17 years to come out and do this?...waste. Well I feel better knowing that for 17 years society was safer without the turd. The justice system let us down early. He should have rotted in bars or been given what murders should get, less of our tax dollars spent and a vacancy in the cell, along with a message to other like thinking sub humans. So I guess this will only serve to villify firearms of all types again, not the villan. It's a shame.

My heart goes out to the victims families. Christmas eve is not suppose to be like this.

I hope it will not be served up on media to help fuel more copy cat sub human glorification for the whack jobs that walk amongst us, in the malls in the theaters, in the festivals, on the streets, at the drive in, in the restaurant, on and on. I hope there is an armed police officer walking beside me all the way. Maybe he will not have his uniform on. Maybe he will be off duty. Maybe he will be a off duty guard like the one that shot John Lennon. Or maybe...he will be just someone who has training and not a whack job, to make my day when I'm the one being accosted without defense. Could be man or woman, but knowing the licensed gun owners outnumber the whack jobs helps.

The system is better than anywhere in the world but it needs some tweaking to make it better. Not sure what it is but it is not something you or I will decide.

[ Post made via Android ]

[rolmops]

Longline ,I'm with you on this one.

Guns may or may not be part of the solution,but they are certainly part of the problem.

As for the cleaver attacks in China. Half a dozen attacks caused the death of 20 people. One attack with a gun caused the death 26 people. Should I explain how many deaths would have occurred if the cleaver guys would have had high power full automatics or even semi automatics? (the semis would probably have killed more).

Anyway with our local NRA supporter killer in Webster removed ,I wish you a merry Christmas.

[Has Been]

Another nut case that broke the law at I bay. I watched that interview with NRA head also. Thouhgt he held his own pretty well against a biased interviewer. Also saw what is going on over in Seria. I'll sleep better tonight knowing I have my constitutional 2nd amendment rights. Sorry for all the losses but lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Plenty of laws, enforce the ones on the books.