Western finger lakes

[Trouthunter]

Drawing up a petition to change the rainbow take on the western finger lakes to three as this would be inline with the other regs. What do you all think?

[Sk8man]

I suggested it a while back on here and also made the suggestion to the DEC. After listening to my fellow fishermen I am content to let the one rainbow rule stand. I still have my concerns from a catch and release standpoint but if there is truly a problem with the proliferation of the rainbow population in Seneca as suggested I heartily endorse the limit.....lets go awhile and see if things improve. My sense of it is that it isn't fishing pressure that is at the crux of the problem it is the Zebras, Quaggas and Spiney Fleas taking out the phytoplankton base and it is and will be affecting all species (albeit it differentially) as time goes on (the rainbow smelt are essentially history and alwives are close behind). My prediction is that lakers and Browns will fare better than other trout as it goes along because they have a more varied diet, and this goes for the pike and bass as well.

[Sk8man]

P.S. I forgot to add that one positive offshoot of the reduction in the alewives is that the perch population should improve noticibly as the alewives often decimate the perch spawn/eggs.

[salmodan]

I don't fish the lakes for rainbow trout. I do on the otherhand fish finger lake tribs. I remember as a kid seeing a lot of rainbow trout in the tribs. With the above mentioned and the dec destroying a lot of the tribs all in the name of flood control, I have watched the run of trout become a mere shadow of what it once was. I have been doing my part for many years releasing the trout I catch. I have taught many people to fish the tribs, respect the fish, and lastly preserve what rainbow trout we have. Am I against keeping rainbows? No I am not. All I ask is for my fellow fisherman to respect the resource. I'm in my mid thirties, been trib fishing since I can remember. If I can see we have fewer fish, I know a lot of other fisherman see it also. Lastly, there seems to be a pissing match amongst fisherman involving fish in the box or on the stringer. I personally get a bigger thrill letting a hard fighting, beautiful, finger lakes rainbow live to fight for another fisherman. I remember being a kid who busted their hump for many years just to learn how to catch those magnificent fish. Personally ill continue to realese all my rainbows in hopes that maybe your child, grandchild, neice or nephew can experience what I have. Thanx... jus had to vent

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[pokepole39]

Well another person not happy whith what he is allowed to take under the regs ...ranbows in the finger lakes are a mear pitance what they used to be their was a time when they went in the tribs you couls litteraly walk on their backs . instead of raising the limit it should be suspended for a few years to let the stock rebuild ...but then again if something is not done soon all the lakes will hold no more than eals ...THIS IS WHY SPORTSMEN DONT MAKE LIMITS

[floatfisher]

I would like to think that I may have had a part the lowering of the limit, so I would like to ask why take it back up? I know myself and a few other concerned anglers took petitions around the tribs a few years back and had people sign in hopes of a creel limit reduction. Something needed to be done and I hope this is a step in the right direction! The returns are a mere sadow of what they used to be since the "flood control" plan was put into effect on Catherine Creek.

On top of this I think that they should shut down ALL fishing past the first bridge on the tiny feeder trickles that feed the main stream of these tribs. I know this would be a major pain to enforce and patrol with the already limited numbers of officers that there are, I say deputise concerned anglers.....

[Sk8man]

Some really good opinions being expressed here and it is great to have this forum to focus on these issues. Although I mainly fish the lakes nowadays I have fished the tribs of the Finger lakes since I was barely old enough to walk (60 years plus). I too remember the "good old days" when numerous rainbows were turning over and "flashing" in the streams and hoping to get ahold of a big one on a flyrod or ultralight. There is nothing like a big rainbow loose on the end of your line in a cramped stream. Unfortunately, the limited numbers of spawners these days is a complex situation. As mentioned already there has been severe degradation of fish habitat in both the streams and the lakes over time. I have observed firsthand in the past many anglers tramping through the streams and spawning beds on opening day (especially derbies) without any consideration (or perhaps in some cases awareness) of the damage created. Water levels over the past years have been very unstable and in many cases unsuitable for effective spawning (low and high conditions at critical periods in the spawning and life cycle). The water quality itself in many streams has been questionable at best in some of the important tributaries. A major concern is also the folks that have absolutely no regard for the environment, the DEC laws, the fish, or the fishermen and they "lift" or net spawning gravid fish whenever they have the opportunity. It is always an unknown factor in terms of the actual extent of this problem as it often occurs in darkness. I know my next comment will irritate the trib fishermen but I wonder if a potential help might be to have a total ban for a set period of time (e.g. 3 years) on the major tribs (e.g. Catherines, Keuka Outlet, Naples Creek etc.) of Seneca and Canandaigua and have the fishery biologists assess whether there is any improvement in the numbers of spawning rainbows. Of course I know this will impact the Annual Derbies on those streams and related revenues in those towns but it may be worth it in the long run....I know...it will never happen....at least the one rainbow caught in the lake won't be an actively spawning fish.

[Gill-T]

I would think the "majority" of spawning occurs before the April 1st opener.....esp with the mild winters we have been having so the decreasing numbers probably goes beyond trib pressure. Perhaps we need a slot limit to protect the big spawners and do away with the derbies? Maybe catch and release sections?

[floatfisher]

Yes the majority of the spawn does in fact happen before the opener, but like sk8 stated, then the redds get trampled upon terribally. I personall y wouldnt close the streams to fishing for a specified number of years, I would go catch and release for a number of years then instate a slot limit after those years are up. Maybe no wading or stream crossing could help?? I think the stream should be dug out and not "let go back to its natural state", the state has already made sure that that wont happen!

It is a big problem and it is going to take a number of "regs" and years to bounce back....

[salmodan]

All great ideas, my personal thought is to have a delayed harvest on the tribs, have a year round fishing season. Catch and realease from jan 1st til april 1st, then impart a slot limit, oh and it wouldn't hurt my feelings at all if the d.e.c. closed all small feeder tribs to the main creeks. As I sit here dreaming what all of this would do for our streams, I can only imagine the impact it would have on our local economy I.e. bait shops etc. Happy holidays and happy dreams.

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[pokepole39]

I would close the streams and since their are no more smelt no one should be in any stream after dark ! no limit for three years ....after all what difrence does it make to ny most that fish now have a lifetime permit and the state has no more revenue coming in anyway...ny state is on its way to broke and has never been to good and managing its game and fish anyway look at the deer up down up down /look at the eals we couldnt aford to treat for a year or two look at the stocking almost dosent exist ...the only thing their are more of in ny is RULES AND REGULATIONS FOR THE SPORTSMAN NO ONE CAN UNDERSTAND !!!!!!ohh yes and if their is any damn doubt left look at the lake levels

[lakebound88]

Leave it where it is. For one thing, the naples derby is a joke. That is all. Thanks, Nick

[BSmaster]

One bow limit is fine. They should do it for Eastern FL tribs too.

A couple of years ago when we had that long winter, I felt that the trout took a huge hit. Driving up 14 all you would see on opening day was ropes dragging rainbows out, eerily similar to how kings are treated in Lake O tribs. The longer than usual cold pushed spawning back into April and low and clear waters made it easy for spottumgottums to get their fish on. Once I heard contemplation of stockings, I kinda figured it was coming. I have been known as a meat fisherman (not so much with trout/salmon) and I think it is ok to keep 1 bow creel limit. I'd rather catch them than eat them so if I had to choose, I would let them go.

During this fight, I've seen a lot of changing, in the way you feel about me, and in the way I feel about you. In here, there were two guys killing each other, but I guess that's better than twenty million. I guess what I'm trying to say, is that if I can change, and you can change, everybody can change!

I do hope that this is enforced "better" this coming year.

[lakebound88]

I will say as a trib fisherman, the fall trib run was poor. So is the early winter run, even with the water we have. Fishing is ok, but not what it can be, Let's work together and make it a great fishery..

[flyrod2]

This is not just a Western Finger Lakes issue. Owacso Lake and the inlet were both a premier brown and rainbow lake, holding state record brown for a while. You could catch lake run bows all the way to almost the source of the Inlet. It was difficult to get in a spot to fish, now it is difficult to find another fisherman.

I agree that we need to work together to get our fishery back. Unfortunately it is not just one thing that broke it and not 1 thing that will fix it. It is a system wide problem. at a time some years ago we demanded more stocked fish including different species. At the same time other demands on the fishery such as invasives, increase runoff pollution, loss of the food chain from phytoplankton,zooplankton on up, power companies using more hydropower, and on and on. Any one of those things and the fishery would be able to survive, all at once and it goes bad. I have read most every study and abstract done on the Finger Lakes as well as others to compare as I have been trying to help get back the Owasco fishery. I see others are wanting the same in the other lakes and tribs. Both Region 7 and Region 8 have active FWMB boards that meet at their regional DEC offices every other month. The board is made up of volunteer sportsman, landowners and county officials, from all the counties in the region, along with the DEC managers. They need to hear from all of us as well as letting them know we all will help.

The one thing that stuck with me from all my research is this: " The health of a lake or river is judged by the health of the cold water fishery".

[Sk8man]

It would be nice if the DEC folks could actually meet with us and we could discuss our concerns as a group somewhere and see whether we could do anything to help this situation (and them). I also have some concerns about the brown trout population (or what might be left of it) on Canandaigua.

[flyrod2]

If there is interest, I have made some contacts to the State Fish Wildlife Management board, NYSCC and DEC looking to develop some type of informational meeting/meetings. I would be willing to form such a meeting. I think it is important to look at the lakes as a region wide issue. Although there are some unique local issues, there are far more similarities throughout all the lakes. I think many guys also want contacts to voice opinions as well as acquire information. Here in Region 7 we work closely with our local DEC folks and they are more than willing to listen to our concerns and insight. We need to keep in mind though, that if it were left up to us, we would have hundreds of different bag limits, size limits and season dates. The reg guide is already difficult to many to understand. That is why DEC is in charge of the stewardship of our lakes and tribs.

Also, I have access to monthly DEC Fisheries reports if there is interest in getting this info out to folks.

[jerktroller]

It would be nice to have some meetings with DEC just to get some communication going. Last time I talked with a biologist in Region 7 they said they were going to plan something like this and Region 8 was planning to do the same thing. They want to get public input and also recruit more diary cooperators. I have not heard of anything being scheduled yet. You guys are all correct about the changes in the food chain in the finger lakes. I know that Region 8 samples the tribs in the summer to see how successful the rainbow spawn was and they have not seen drops in the number of juvenile rainbows so closing the tribs to fishing doesn't seem like the answer. I'm sure there are other things that can be done. These are the types of things that we could hash out by meeting with the DEC fisheries people. Probably should get the game wardens involved to since there seem to be a lot of concerns about poaching on the tribs.

[Sk8man]

It would be cool if the Region 7 and 8 folks could meet with us all as a group someplace and really discuss things and we could get their take "in person" because I know they sometimes have personal views that are better communicated in that format :>)

[flyrod2]

I have been in contact with the new president of the New York State Conservation Council. He says that both the Region 7 and Region 8 DIrectors to the NYSCC are interested it such a meeting. The Finger Lakes Conservation Council (R8) and the Region 7 Conservation League are the regions affliates to the NYSCC representing all counties within the region. We think it could become something similar the "The State of the Lake (Lake Ontario) meetings. It is vital that we share information and create contacts especially when there are issue with the fishery. I have had a number of PM's with people who are very interested. Lets keep it going to make it work and any thoughts are appreciated. I will continue the pursuit.