crazy hunting

[poverty stricken II]

I have only been out twice this year because of time and needing to get the kids off to school. My nephew invited me up to Watkins Glen track to hunt in archery I got a sitter and went. I was in his stand for an hour and a small 8 pt, fell to a duble lung and liver shot dropping only 30 yrds later. the second time was a little more crazy, I knew nobody has been hunting on our land all year. I had a civil service test to take on opening day and couldn't get out until tuesday. It had been raining so I figured around 9 after dropping the daughte off at daycare I would go see if there were signs around the tree stands. I was able to walk quiet up the logging road up to an old cabin that had fallen down, but the roof is intack on the ground. I had stepped on an old can about 10 ft away from the roof and heard loud thumping coming from the roof. I turned and it was a huge coyote comming at me. I turned the gun, it swirled around and went back into the roof. It came out of the other side running like heck. I put the scope on him and rolled him over. That puppy started yelping and took off. After getting my heart rate down and checking to see if I needed to wipe. I went back down to the truck and drove up to the top of the land to see if there were any signs by that stand. I walked into the woods about 5 yards and a 6 pt was right there about 20 yards. I have noticed that the deer population has dropped a lot over the last several years. I have also noticed that the coyote population has really increased over the last couple of years. I have shot 4 in the last 2 years. When I was hunting a lot more on our land to see 2-4 deer was common. From what I have heard, over the past couple of years if you see a deer your lucky. I am talking about over 100 acs. has anyone seen an increase of coyotes in their neck of the woods?

[Diversion]

Oh yes, there are a bunch of coyotes by my deer camp in west almond. Every time the neighbor's dog barks, the coyotes go nuts. The deer population also seems to be affected by it, as I am seeing less deer each year, and I cover a lot of ground. I was just down at my camp for 10 days the week of the gun opener, and only saw 4 deer, and that is hunting a number of different spots on both provate and state lands.

We are gonna start hunting them as soon as deer season is over as their populations seems to be getting out of control :shock:

[Billy V]

Wow, I'm glad we don't have those problems where I hunt. Our deer herd is very healthy and I see 10-15 deer every morning or afternoon that I hunt. In my neighborhood alone I see 10-15 deer every night on my way to the house from work. The field down the street is littered with deer. One night I stopped and I counted 52 deer in that field alone.

Shoot all those darn coyotes! I hope the deer herd gets healthier out where you guys hunt.

[Yankee Troller]

Im in south steuben and we have a very healthy deer heard. We coiunted over 100 one night driving around one square piece of property. OUr coyote population and coy dogs are out of control too. We are going to pummel them once the deer season is over. TRUST ME!

[W.W.IV.]

Hey guys,I noticed the same things this season. I Hunt down at Hector in the Federal Forest. This year my two honey holes were all most void of deer, hunted Sunday to Friday without seeing a deer. Maybe my right guard let me down. By the way it was bow season. The first evening I left my stand at dusk and a pack of coyotes cut loose and raised hell in there. I'm not going to blame the slow hunting on the yots I hunted the Truxton area for years and they didn't hurt my hunting and they have a lot of them. The mass crops were down where I hunted, they also pound the hell out of the area from the first day of gun to the end of black powder. Throw in a bad winter or two and there goes the hunting for a while. Maybe. Hey, we might be getting to good at what were doing. We had a lot of hi wind warm weather this season and I don't think that helps anything. Well I did get a heavy six pt. the first day of gun so theres no tears in my eyes. Good luck to all of you the rest of the season, Hunt safe. Mike.

[ray koziatek]

yankee where in steuben?major dorp in the corning area also and almost more allarming is from the first day of bow season to now i have only seem 1 doe that i could make shure was 100% a doe as ive seen many buttons,the good thing is ive seen unreal numbers of yearlings to 1,5 yr bucks ,several 2.5 yr and a few 3.5 and older finnaly found the right one sunday

[Yankee Troller]

Jasper/Cameron area

[W.W.IV.]

How do you feel about the nusence

permits?I don't think shooting deer and leaving them there to rot is the right thing to do. I think the farmers should let the hunters do that during the season then the meat would get used .The so called hunters that kill them during the summer are the one's that will be screaming the loudest when they can't find deer in the fall. Sorry,didn't mean to open a can of worms.

[Yankee Troller]

When I am given nuisence permits I take the animal. I dont leave it there for the coyotes to feast on.

[W.W.IV.]

Thank you Y.T. but theres a lot that do.

[Yankee Troller]

proir to this years rifle season it was an opportunity to see what a rifle can do to a deer in person. I know my group always took advatage of this.

[Time Out]

Yankee, Where's your camp. Thought you drove by us in Camren when we were hunting Saturday.

[Yankee Troller]

WE hunt Skyline farm on Jackson Hill rd. My buddy Marcus has family that own parcels in the area and there is a hunt club next to us that only hunts their land during opening weekend so we hunt there after them.

[fishman08]

Same with us Ray...I hunt in Avoca and the deer population has gone down in a major way the last five years...you know it's bad when i've seen a black bear and her cub more often then a deer

[mrhappy]

Come on guy's...Lets stop and think here. Could the lack of deer sightings have anything to do with the DOE SLAUGHTER we have had going here in NYS for the past few years? Wake up...it's not the coyotes!!!!!! It's not disease!!!! The deer out west in Illinois, Kansas, Iowa, all deal with Coyotes and disease and the population is large and so are the bucks. Look at Montana and Texas, lots of Whitetail and along with Yotes they are dealing with other predators. Still a VERY large healty herd! We are killing our factorys, we need does to make deer! As for the "nusciance permits" and all the "crop damage ", simple solution, if you own property and obtain these permits you MUST open your property to public access...with permission of course. 2 yrs...300 acres... 50 "nusciance permits".... equals problem solved! Lets see then how many landowners request these permits. Here is another can of worms to open! How many deer are killed (DMP deer especially) that are going to donations (not that I am against Hunters for the Hungry) just because you have an extra tag of your own AND the one your buddie signed over to you? All with A FREEZER full of deer!!!!! Just to clarify, I am an avid Whitetail hunter and have hunted and harvested them in many of the states that I listed. I have observed how these states are doing it and NYS is doing it wrong!! Many complain that there aren't as many hunters, young and old, as there used to be....Hmmmmmm, wonder why? What 14 -16 year old is going to sit for 2,3,4,5, days to see A deer? As much as I am in favor of APPROPRIATE and REALISTIC QDM (quality deer management) I am also in favor of QDH (quality deer hunt), especially for our youngsters!!!!! Face it.... MANY DMU's in New York are becoming a "Fished Out Pond"! We need to wake up!!!!!

[Yankee Troller]

Good points

[W.W.IV.]

Hey Mr.Happy,you forgot the road kill and winter kill. I'm sure road kill far out number hunter kill. The warm winters lately may have changed the winter deer movement,maybe they stop yarding up for a few years and a bad winter could play hell with them. Nows the time to see whats really out there. Most of the hunters don't go out the end of the season,just us die hards. The deer get back to a normal movement and that makes for a good BP season,or not.

[mrhappy]

W.W.IV - I will agree with you that road kill has some impact on the population statewide, significantly in some areas. However, I am not sold on the winter kill philosophy! I do agree that there are deer that do not survive the winters(mostly button bucks) in my observations, but many will agree the numbers are not significant. We probably should discount the winter kill anyways as we have not seen a extreme winter here in NYS in a few years aside from the North Eastern portions. Again I will refer to other states in the midwest where they do see major winter snow and ice storms and take a look at their populations. A perfect state to use as an example with winter kill is Wisconson, the winters are EXTREME there and look at the average size of the deer they harvest(buck or doe)! I have to say I am not against any of us going out and harvesting a doe for the freezer but we should take a look at the REAL picture, not the fabricated one we have shoved down our throats by the DEC every year. My feelings on this subject are not popular with many folks but obviously (based on reports from HUNTERS) I think it's time we start taking a serious look at the direction our deer herd is heading in the last few years. Some of us are blessed with great properties to hunt(have permission, own or leased) with a healthy deer population but I would go out on a limb to say the majority of hunters are frustrated or at least displeased with the outcome of their last few seasons! I want to remind everyone of the subject of the orginal thread here and it appears to me that many feel it's the Coyotes killing our deer! C'mon Guy's!

[fishman08]

mrhappy i totally agree with you...i was just saying that our herd was down too. Although we don't use the nussaince permits, the club across the road from us killed around a hundred does in the past two year and from what i hear this isn't uncommon. With some clubs killing over a hundred in one year. I think the state needs to wake up and stop these nuissance permit or atleast start to regulate them a little bit better.

[Diversion]

Where are all these nuisance permits being issued, and to whom? In my area, which is 9P in Alleghany county, only 2 out of the 6 of us at my camp got doe tags this year. The other 4 were denied.

Mrhappy, you make some very good points about killing does, but thats only part of the situation.

[mrhappy]

Gentelman - I cannot factually speak in regards to the number of DMP' s issued in specific DMU's, however, I can say that the DEC does give these out as one reply to this thread indicated like "Christmas candy". On one specific farm I had regularly hunted in Southwestern Catt. county, 390 acres, much of which was golden rod and overgrown apple orcards was issued in two consecutive years 25 "nusiance permits". The DEC approached this particular farmer and offered these to him (it should be noted the only farming this guy did was raise cattle, nothing more!) He also did not complain about property damage! He and his family had two years of killing, needless to say I warned him and to this day he regrets wrecking his deer population. After the third year I opted out of my lease as I watched the population get decemated. In my experiences with nuciance permits it seems as though each Regional DEC office has a quota to fill regarding distribution in addition to DMP's. So once again...is it coyotes winter kill or should sportsmen be beginning to ask some questions?????

[mrhappy]

Diversion - I would like to hear what else is involved in this situation, good bad or neutral. Lets face it...there is a problem and who better to figure it out but the guys in the woods!!!!!! A little discussion can't hurt!

[W.W.IV.]

Fishman08 and Diversion, I think your confusing Party tags with nuisance permits. I don't think the DEC issues nuisance permits to a hunt club, but the members can get party tags. JollyII in 64 I bought a house out side of Fulton N.Y. at that time if you found a deer track you had a very good day. By 75 or so the deer hunting exploded and there was a ton of coyotes and coy dogs in the area.

[fishman08]

W.W.IV. the nuisance permits are given to the farmers to help control the deer population and keep the crop damage to a minimum. However they are handing out way to many, i think it's 5 per certain amount of acreage, and it's only for does and once they are filled the farmer can apply for more. That's why we are seeing such a dramatic decrease in deer. The farmers are just handing them to the people that hunt their land to use.

[W.W.IV.]

I hear ya Fishman and I'm incline to agree.