Fish contamination study

[GAMBLER]

Anyone else get the fish contamination study in the mail yesterday?  I got a letter from Suny ESF asking if I would participate in a study to see if they could take blood and urine samples from fishermen that eat fish out of Lake Ontario and various bodies of water in the vacinity of Lake Ontario. 

[Capt Vince Pierleoni]

Sounds scammy and agenda filled. The only way this "study" would have any credibility would be to have an equal number of "subjects" that lived in each of the locations a voluteer came from, who lived the same type of lifestyle and had the same occupation as the volunteer and was roughly the same age(that will never happen, are they going to knock on your non-fish eating neighbors doors?). 

These witch hunts were around 30 yrs ago, and will be around 30 yrs from now. Someone trying to make a name for themselves and advance an agenda. Send back your response and suggest they compare blood fat levels in Lake O fish eating people versus non fish eating people. 

[Jolly II]

I'm in an environmentally related field, and several years ago I had to have a blood test at the start of a new job to see what my base line levels were for different toxins that I would be exposed to while at work.  Things like asbestos, PCBs, Mercury, heavy metals, and a whole slough of other things.  I've been eating fish from Lake Ontario all my life, I'm 39 now.  I don't remember all the specific things it tested for, it was a long list, but interestingly enough, I was average, or slightly below average for levels of toxins in my blood.  I do know that even my PCB levels were average/slightly below average.

 

I'm not eathing fish everyday, but on average about once a week, even in the winter.  The magority of that being trout and salmon.  I've always taken the extra time to trim the fillets free of all bones, fat, skin, and the dark meat that is next to the skin. 

 

Another thing to consider is my lifestyle.  My wife and I grow, can and freeze, much of the vegetables we eat, as well as raising our own chickens for meat and eggs, and pigs for pork.  And with all the deer running around in Genesee county, venison is where our red meat comes from.  We eat very little processed foods.  I'm not a health nut or a "Granola".  Our family just enjoys providing for ourselves.  It's a lot work, but I don't do well sitting around either.

[Tim Bromund]

To follow up on Chris's comments above.  I am also in the Environmental Remediation field and have never had elevated levels of any environmental toxins either and I have been in this business since 1991.  But one thing in particular I'd like to comment on was about a friend of mine that fishes with me quite a bit who is on the Environmental Abatement side of the business (I'm on the Consulting/Remediation Project Design side).

 

John was working on an asbestos abatement project at a well known Chemical Plant in Niagara Falls one summer several years ago and the entire crew was blood tested daily throughout the 2 month project to check for increases in mercury levels in their bloodstream.  John was eating trout/salmon caught aboard my boat that entire time and never showed so much as a blip in the daily mercury blood tests.  These tests are sensitive enough that if he was receiving ANY Mercury dosage from the fish he was eating, it WOULD have shown up in those daily blood tests as any spike in mercury levels would have prompted removal from that project.

 

Tim

[Jolly II]

Wow!  That's great evidence Tim.

 

I really wish my Uncle Tom was still alive.  He had a paper that was written in the early 90s from an independent study that was done on the toxins in the fish.  Basically, they took a clean fillet, the actual part of the fish we all eat, and tested that.  The end result was that clean, boneless, skinless, cleanly trimmed fillet greatly reduced the amount of toxins in the fish.

 

I think the current practice of testing the fish involves grinding up the entire fish, and testing that.  I may wrong, but I always thought that was the process. 

 

If I spent some time this summer in his old office I might be able to find it, all his fisheries research stuff is still there and organized.  I'd love to get that paper, and scan it, and share it with all of you on here.

 

As well as a whole bunch of other studies and papers.

 

Tim, Thanks BTW for all your hard work with this weekend's show, and to the other LOTSA guys.  It's growing every year.  I never got a chance to come over and say hi, I have the ability to talk alot during certain occasions.

[JR]

Brian I just got a Letter today from N.Y.S Department of Health for the same thing,  it said the test will be done at a Local Health center and you will be given a 75 dollar gift card for participating is that the same one you got.

[GAMBLER]

That is the same one.  I reread the letter tongiht and I was wrong on the people doing the study.  Are you going to do it John? 

[Capt Vince Pierleoni]

Chris,  your uncle was brilliant. He produced documentation in several instances where he helped reinforce our( avid Lake O anglers) positions in critical debates. Our observations regarding predator/ prey densities and the redistribution of forage species in Lake Ontario were dismissed as "anecdotal." He was as exasperated as we were when "doom and gloom" was predicted in the early 90's. He knew the Chinook was the solution, not the problem, even if your agenda was native specie restoration. Alot of people don't know it, but the single biggest reason the perch population has rebounded in Lake O is Chinook predation on the nuisance alewife population. Your uncle Tom, because of his love of Chinook and dedication to the health of the Lake Ontario fishery, had his job as a NYS DEC fishery biologist running through his veins. I learned alot from that man, and somewhere I have some papers he created on a variety of subjects surrounding our fishery and lake. I will try to find them and copy for you.

[BSmaster]

Chris, I live by this.

 

{I really wish my Uncle Tom was still alive.  He had a paper that was written in the early 90s from an independent study that was done on the toxins in the fish.  Basically, they took a clean fillet, the actual part of the fish we all eat, and tested that.  The end result was that clean, boneless, skinless, cleanly trimmed fillet greatly reduced the amount of toxins in the fish.}

 

Still though, I only eat migrant fish in some bodies of water, like the Genny or the Hudson but this may be more because of flavor and not contamination.

Joe

[rolmops]

Sounds scammy and agenda filled. The only way this "study" would have any credibility would be to have an equal number of "subjects" that lived in each of the locations a voluteer came from, who lived the same type of lifestyle and had the same occupation as the volunteer and was roughly the same age(that will never happen, are they going to knock on your non-fish eating neighbors doors?). 

These witch hunts were around 30 yrs ago, and will be around 30 yrs from now. Someone trying to make a name for themselves and advance an agenda. Send back your response and suggest they compare blood fat levels in Lake O fish eating people versus non fish eating people. 

If there are no elevated toxins found then it will be good news for us all.

If you want to try and boycot this study because it is"scammy and agenda filled" then you should ask yourself whether you too have an agenda.

[Traveling Circus]

A friend who has fished with us in the past received the same survey..... He's a lifelong Hilton resident, lives on the lakeshore,  and planned on submitting to the tests.....

[Jolly II]

Chris,  your uncle was brilliant. He produced documentation in several instances where he helped reinforce our( avid Lake O anglers) positions in critical debates. Our observations regarding predator/ prey densities and the redistribution of forage species in Lake Ontario were dismissed as "anecdotal." He was as exasperated as we were when "doom and gloom" was predicted in the early 90's. He knew the Chinook was the solution, not the problem, even if your agenda was native specie restoration. Alot of people don't know it, but the single biggest reason the perch population has rebounded in Lake O is Chinook predation on the nuisance alewife population. Your uncle Tom, because of his love of Chinook and dedication to the health of the Lake Ontario fishery, had his job as a NYS DEC fishery biologist running through his veins. I learned alot from that man, and somewhere I have some papers he created on a variety of subjects surrounding our fishery and lake. I will try to find them and copy for you.

 

Thanks Vince.  He had fevered passion for the Lake Ontario fisheries, didn't he?  And, even after he retired he continued to do research and support the fishery.   

 

I loved to fished with him, I just wish eveyone of us had had the opportunity to fish with him for a day.  It was always an interesting. 

 

What's funny... is by age 10 I understood the relationship with Alewives and perch, and the benefits of stocking salmon. 

 

If you ever do copy those papers, I'd love to have them.  Would be nice to add to my collection of research that Tom gave me, everything from cross polination of winter squash to mortality rates of catch and release steelhead.

[jimski2]

If the fish in Lake Ontario are listed as contaminant free, then someone will start selling them and you will have another new ball game. Be careful of what you wish for, you might get it.

[Tim Bromund]

Jim, what do you think all those "Russians"  are doing with the nasty moldy mud sharks they drag sideways out of the tribs every fall now?

[rolmops]

Going through the different reports about what fish are good to eat and where they are from, I chanced upon a recommendation from the NY officials encouraging people to eat up to 4 meals of fish monthly from Lake Erie. My guess is that Lake Ontario may not be far behind.

It seems that Lake Erie had all its water replaced with fresher and cleaner water,but this will take longer  in Lake Ontario because of its much larger volume.

[Capt Vince Pierleoni]

Rolmops, no problem and no agenda. I just have met too many great "bucket sitting men" around the lake Ontario HARBORS. These fellas ate fish every day, and most were 60 to 80 yrs old. These same guys snickered when eggs and coffee suddenly became bad for you, and of course, today are heralded as "wonder foods"

In the mid to late 80's there was an article written by Jerry Gibbs in Outdoor life. Back then, they still wrote articles about "blood sports". He warned of the EPA, and stated that he had information that the EPA would use Great Lakes anglers as sacrificial lambs to move forward with their agenda. Michigan soon after went through terrible PR problems resulting from irresponsible reports that were determined to be unfounded. It took many years to undo the damage, and today Great Lakes fish would test cleaner than most of what you get from the ocean, and certainly cleaner than any farm raised fish.

[mudflat]

There is a current thread running on Spoon Pullers about how the Canadians feel the negative press on eating fish from LO has affected the fishery up there ( http://www.spoonpullers.com/index.php/topic,17606.0.html ).  I've had friends that I've sent home with fresh salmon filets end up throwing them out after their wives read the DEC consumption advisaries. Facts don't seem to carry much weight in public opinion and we could end up like our friends up North very easily.  We need to promote the positive aspects of our fishery as much as possible which include the health benefits and enjoyment of eating fresh fish from LO.

[RUNNIN REBEL]

I was contacted many years ago by a company that must catch fish from Lake Ontario for testing. The deal was they would hire/charter my REBEL CHARTERS to catch 3 species of Lake Ontario fish EVERY YEAR. They could be any 3 different species i could catch. ANY size & Any species-warm or cold water  (they carried D.E.C. permits & permission to do this testing) ALL fish had to be caught WEST of the Genesee River. The charter was over as soon as 3 species were caught. This company is hired by the Somerset power plant parent Co. to test contamination levels of Lake Ontario fish, to see if the plant had any ill effects on surrounding bodies of plant water. Since it was always a week day charter I passed it on to a good friend/dock mate charter boat in Sandy Creek. I never did ask to see where the results could be seen, and this testing still goes on to this day. This year i will try to get copies of this study. BUT I did learn you can make numbers/results work into ANY outcome you want.

 

Jerry

REBEL CHARTERS

[GAMBLER]

I was contacted many years ago by a company that must catch fish from Lake Ontario for testing. The deal was they would hire/charter my REBEL CHARTERS to catch 3 species of Lake Ontario fish EVERY YEAR. They could be any 3 different species i could catch. ANY size & Any species-warm or cold water  (they carried D.E.C. permits & permission to do this testing) ALL fish had to be caught WEST of the Genesee River. The charter was over as soon as 3 species were caught. This company is hired by the Somerset power plant parent Co. to test contamination levels of Lake Ontario fish, to see if the plant had any ill effects on surrounding bodies of plant water. Since it was always a week day charter I passed it on to a good friend/dock mate charter boat in Sandy Creek. I never did ask to see where the results could be seen, and this testing still goes on to this day. This year i will try to get copies of this study. BUT I did learn you can make numbers/results work into ANY outcome you want.

 

Jerry

REBEL CHARTERS

Jerry,

We have people from Ginna that take water samples from our intake to test for Radiation in fish.  I know Jason takes the same lady out to get fish to study for the same purpose. 

 

P.S.  Check your Pm's Jerry

[RUNNIN REBEL]

Brian her name is Mary and she is the charter I gave to Jason years ago. He loves the set up. 1 person trip---back to dock quick-----ANY species/no laws to follow----full rate.

 

 

I Pm you back, no problem. I can do that.

 

Jerry

 

REBEL CHARTERS