LOC derby format changes poll

[GAMBLER]

Lets hear your thoughts on this.   

 

I feel that lake trout, browns and steelhead are just important to the derby as salmon.  Without the trout, what would we fish for on years when the salmon fishing is bad?  Trout should have an equal chance to beat out a salmon in the LOC.  If a trout can beat the leading salmon, it shows how we have a World Class fishery for ALL species of trout and salmon in Lake Ontario.  Why not promote the ENTIRE fishery not just the salmon fishery?  Dave Chilson said in his email to me that I posted early this winter that one of the reasons for taking the lake trout out of the Fall derby was due to the stocking issues and the population being down.  There are a lot of trout killed for that $100.00 fish of the day and thrown in someones garden.  Why not dump the fish of the day and put the money into the divisions?  I will continue to fish all three LOC derbies.  I really enjoy the added bonus of going out on the water and having a chance to win some money.  If the entry fee went up and the prize structure went up too, I would not care.  The $30.00 I spend for each derby is a drop in the bucket of what I spend on tackle every year.

[Silver Fox]

I wish the last question had a "maybe" answer. Reason being, even though I was just going to get a season pass anyways and then I see that your 34# Laker was basically shoved behind the scenes in the new L.O.C. paper without even an article or "better" picture, now that kind of irked me. It's apparent he has a grudge against you and thats doesn't look right at all. I'll get in the spring derby cause I'm in Wilson for some of that week, but as for the others I'm not sure. If I have more charters booked, then I wont.

 

[Don Supon]

I feel that the Derby should name the biggest FISH as champion, whatever species it is. Mr. Chilson, by decree, is making the salmon top dog in the fall. The Lake Ontario fishery, in whole, should be the focus of having this tournament.

Promoting only salmon is foolish and shortsighted. Initially it was a good idea, but today it is not. Salmon publicity for this state originated the tournament concept as a means to attract visitors who would spend money here. All the press about the salmon's fighting prowess was a good enticer to get fishing here noticed. Over time, it has been proven that other species are present, and are equally helpful in attracting visitors to our state. The salmon is most likely to be the biggest fish caught, but, a monster of another species would continue to help draw fishermen and highlight what is actually available here.

Salmon-only promotion is an elitist attitude. I don' "get" why anyone would want to do this when enticing people to come to our state is the main goal. Locals already have an advandage of familarity, are non-natives only for providing locals with prizes? Why limit numbers of potential participants? All fishermen believe they can get lucky once, and will want the glory(and prize money)when they do. Limit the pool to only highly experienced fishermen and watch the tournament decay and decline. Limited number of prizes=limited participation.

Doubling the numbers of salmon winners counterweighs the loss of lake trout winners, but what could the reason be to do this? Doesn't matter to me. Fish or don't, your choice.

Another rule that disturbs me is the one that limits winners to one major prize. My thinking is that a good fisherman, who is really good, could place himself as leader in more than one species. That limiting is part of the rules to attempt to give more fishermen their moment of fame and is accepted. It promotes maximum participation! Shouldn't the Fall Derby do the same?

[Dolly Varden]

The King is King-long live the King! This fishery was built on the glamour that surronds the mighty King. Lets cut Dave and the LOC Derby some slack and try out the new format this fall.

Yes, other species are important and fun to target, but get 100 miles from Lake Ontario and you will find out that the King is indeed King.

To keep our fishery we need fishermen to travel to Lake Ontario- I think highlighting the King during the fall derby will help promote our lake and surrounding communities.

Our boat will be on Lake O. for all 3 LOC events--see you on the water.

[Don Supon]

My opinion stands. I feel all species should be remembered and THAT will promote our lake the best. I'll be out there with you in all three.

[GAMBLER]

The King is King-long live the King! This fishery was built on the glamour that surronds the mighty King. Lets cut Dave and the LOC Derby some slack and try out the new format this fall.

Yes, other species are important and fun to target, but get 100 miles from Lake Ontario and you will find out that the King is indeed King.

To keep our fishery we need fishermen to travel to Lake Ontario- I think highlighting the King during the fall derby will help promote our lake and surrounding communities.

Our boat will be on Lake O. for all 3 LOC events--see you on the water.

 

 

There was nothing wrong with the old format.  If it is not broke, why fix it?  The Lake Ontario fishing community is shrinking every year.  More people fall due to the cost of our great sport.  Lake trout fishermen were slapped in the face and bumped out of the fall derby (yes there are some guys that ONLY fish lake trout).  Why knock guys out that have been supporting this derby for years?  Not good business sense.  Where are you going to draw new people from??????? 

[Silver Fox]

Maybe we should just do away with the rainbow and browns division too? Then 1/2 the lake won't have a chance at all.......

[Gator]

Aren't lake trout indigenous to L. Ontario? I remember hearing that there was a big push to restore lakers and landlocks to their "rightful place". Funny how things change.

[Yankee Troller]

I was against the grain with #2 and #3, but with the majority on everything else. 

[bear]

if worried about the Lake Trout population and you want to drop it from one of the derbies, you're much better off dropping them in the spring or raising the weight to 15 lbs on all 3 derbies.  Plus, it wouldn't hurt to raise the wt for browns and rainbows to 12 lbs.  Hope I didn't make anyone mad.  It's just the way I feel.  

[reelintense]

When this topic originally came up, I, along with Brian, got phone calls and emails from Dave Chilson at LOC, as I was very vocal about my feelings.  I am not here to personally attack Dave (if he is indeed reading these posts) but to again address what I feel is an injustice to the select fisherman that target Lakers, as well as any deserving fisherman that got 'lucky' with a large laker.  The tournament is called a Trout and Salmon Tournament. Not a Trout and Salmon Tourmanent, minus Lake Trout in the Fall.  If someone, Dave or whomever, wants to suggest an ALL SALMON Tournament, then we can go from there and form another Derby to run concurrently that includes trout.  Brian is correct when Dave mentioned issues with lake trout stocking programs and concerns, and while I am not an expert on populations, I have noticed more lakers in my boat in the last couple of years, then 5-10 years ago.  However, in addition to that, Dave also mentioned the concern (people apparently complaining to Dave) that only a select number of families/boats are taking 75% (or whatever amount) of the Lake Trout payouts specifically in the fall.  My thought has always been, kudos to the Barber's, Klejdys', Yablonski's and Trump's!  They are masters of catching lakers and if we want to earn some of that money, we need to fish where they fish or learn to catch larger fish.  But to punish them and subsequently everyone else because they are good at something....is in the words of Don Supon...elitist.  I am in favor of raising weigh in minimums in hopes that more fish would be returned to the water, if they were not going to be weighed.  Lakers at least should be raised, given the averages I see.  Maybe or maybe not with Browns and Steelheads.  I also think that either getting rid of daily payouts or reducing that to ONE large fish of the day might help avoid some peoples concerns that the top laker families win multiple payouts.  Personally i dont care either way, but just trying to help some people's angst at those that are successful.  However eliminating just one fish, from just one specific derby is in everyway a slap at those that target lake trout in the fall.  And that includes me, when maybe the king bite is off, and there can be some very nice sized Lakers off the Genny/I-bay area.  I will say that I will fish ALL three derbies as normal, but I am disappointed in the LOC team that made this decision, in a vacuum, with out more consoltation with LOU, and the everyday Lake O fisherman that does more for this fishery and economy, then the uninformed, average person that hires a charter for the derby or only fishes occasionally and doesnt even know the rules have changed or why.   If your reading this Dave......again, this has been a terrible injustice!  I appreciate the time and energy you and everyone on the LOC board puts into this tourney, but this one rule change has been extremely illtaken.

 

Jason Herbst

[GAMBLER]

When this topic originally came up, I, along with Brian, got phone calls and emails from Dave Chilson at LOC, as I was very vocal about my feelings.  I am not here to personally attack Dave (if he is indeed reading these posts) but to again address what I feel is an injustice to the select fisherman that target Lakers, as well as any deserving fisherman that got 'lucky' with a large laker.  The tournament is called a Trout and Salmon Tournament. Not a Trout and Salmon Tourmanent, minus Lake Trout in the Fall.  If someone, Dave or whomever, wants to suggest an ALL SALMON Tournament, then we can go from there and form another Derby to run concurrently that includes trout.  Brian is correct when Dave mentioned issues with lake trout stocking programs and concerns, and while I am not an expert on populations, I have noticed more lakers in my boat in the last couple of years, then 5-10 years ago.  However, in addition to that, Dave also mentioned the concern (people apparently complaining to Dave) that only a select number of families/boats are taking 75% (or whatever amount) of the Lake Trout payouts specifically in the fall.  My thought has always been, kudos to the Barber's, Klejdys', Yablonski's and Trump's!  They are masters of catching lakers and if we want to earn some of that money, we need to fish where they fish or learn to catch larger fish.  But to punish them and subsequently everyone else because they are good at something....is in the words of Don Supon...elitist.  I am in favor of raising weigh in minimums in hopes that more fish would be returned to the water, if they were not going to be weighed.  Lakers at least should be raised, given the averages I see.  Maybe or maybe not with Browns and Steelheads.  I also think that either getting rid of daily payouts or reducing that to ONE large fish of the day might help avoid some peoples concerns that the top laker families win multiple payouts.  Personally i dont care either way, but just trying to help some people's angst at those that are successful.  However eliminating just one fish, from just one specific derby is in everyway a slap at those that target lake trout in the fall.  And that includes me, when maybe the king bite is off, and there can be some very nice sized Lakers off the Genny/I-bay area.  I will say that I will fish ALL three derbies as normal, but I am disappointed in the LOC team that made this decision, in a vacuum, with out more consoltation with LOU, and the everyday Lake O fisherman that does more for this fishery and economy, then the uninformed, average person that hires a charter for the derby or only fishes occasionally and doesnt even know the rules have changed or why.   If your reading this Dave......again, this has been a terrible injustice!  I appreciate the time and energy you and everyone on the LOC board puts into this tourney, but this one rule change has been extremely illtaken.

 

Jason Herbst

Nice post Jason. 

[Fish Junkie]

I don't care what kind of trout it is, at 30 lbs. that is world class.  Not common but yes possible.   A 30 lb. king is run of the mill.  Would be a travesty to see a trout (regardless of species) not win or not get the line light  if it were to beat the largest king in the derby.  The fishery is built on multiple species.   I find it funny that some seem too proud to let a trout win the grand prize, yet I am sure these same anglers gobble up the spring brown trout opportunities, offshore steelie action, or deep laker action when the kings are not around and they want, or need, to put their clients and/or passengers on fish.  That's the beauty  of our fishery....you can usually always find something that bites.  It is a world class TROUT and salmon fishery.  In fact, I know there are visitors from out of state come here for the trophy trout opportunities not the salmon.  When it comes to the trib fishing, this is more the case....

[Has Been]

With the cold weather we are having this year, My gut tells me that the many kings caught lake wide last year will not be the case this year. The big salmon can be caught anywhere but the majority of the kings are from the Oak , more like ollcott west. So that means everywhere else will be second rate.

[rolmops]

Why should lake char be called trout??

Just kidding.

If we want to promote lake Ontario, we should not do it too selectively and any of the trout and salmon should be part of the game.

As for getting rid of the daily prizes and go for a bigger final pot? Now that would be plain stupid.

Many people come to fish for only one or 2 times and they pay into the derby because they have a decent chance to win something.

If the daily prizes go away these people will probably still come fishing but they certainly will not buy a LOC derby ticket just to fatten the pot for the very few (professional??) daily fishermen. What about charging a daily fee for each day you go fishing? Now that would fatten the pot for the very few daily fishermen and at the same time put them on the same financial level playing field as the one time fisherman.
That probably would not be quite so popular.

As for increasing the fees in order to get a bigger prize.Again under the current rules this would mostly benefit the small group of daily fishermen.

Most people come for an adventure and some fun. They bring a lot of money to the charters, the tackle shops and the local eateries. We should concentrate on bringing lots of fun loving fishermen who will come back later in the season to fish some more  and bring their families to pick some fruit and buy stuff in the road stands,amish or otherwise.

For the hardcore gambling fisherman there is the Pro-Am and the casino down the road.

Cornelis.

[GAMBLER]

Looking like a land slide here. 

[GAMBLER]

ttt

[Make the Turn]

Great post guys. a trout and salmon derby should be just that. If people dont like it when the same people win money they should be better fisherman. I have a hard time believing someone would throw back a derby winning lake trout just because it was a lake trout.

[PennYan20]

 It's a Trout and Salmon Derby----Period!!! I agree with Gambler(Why fix it if it isn't broke?) Giant Rip-Off for Matt as well as others! PS: When are the past Derby Archives going to be posted? Update PLEASE! Respectfully, Steve............................

[Patriot]

if worried about the Lake Trout population and you want to drop it from one of the derbies, you're much better off dropping them in the spring or raising the weight to 15 lbs on all 3 derbies.  Plus, it wouldn't hurt to raise the wt for browns and rainbows to 12 lbs.  Hope I didn't make anyone mad.  It's just the way I feel.  

I was thinking the same thing. Raise the weight limits on all fish except Chinooks, since they're put and take. And have Lakers, upper slot only.

[TyeeTanic]

We're all just posting our opinions here. I understand all points of view and can't say one is better than the other. I agree all species should be promoted at some level, and for sure keep the lake trout class.  However, I'd say hands down a 25 lb king is much more difficult to land than a 25 lb laker.  Trout run out of steam pretty fast in the lake, so can you compare a king to a trout pound per pound. Perhaps a points system that allows more weighting on a king than a trout.

 

The other side of it is I agree, catching a trout over 30 lbs is just insane teratory.  Perhaps the scoring can start going the other way if the trout is over 30 lbs like an extra 5 points per each pound over 30??

 

Anyhow, maybe that will just complicate everything ... not sure.  Just saying I think a king is harder to land than a trout and there should be some acknowledgment of that in the scoring.

[jeb1340]

I think that it is harder to land a lake trout over 30 lbs because it is much harder to hook one.  There are many more salmon over 30 swimming around than lake trout.  I'm still a little confused on the reasons that the rules were changed but I will still continue to fish it.  I was a little shocked today to see that a laker that is .03 lbs larger than the Grand Prize Salmon on the board. 

Edited May 9, 2013 by jeb1340

[PennYan20]

 Gee, I wonder what would happen if someone landed a 30# Walleye. It's Lake O---anything is possible! Steve............

[hawkeye625]

Where on the LOC page does it say salmon only derby?  The LOC is a trout and salmon derby isn't it?  I had a heated discussion with someone last week about the topic, his "thought" was the LOC is a salmon derby.  My thought was it's both.

 

Not to get off the laker/king topic, but what if one of us hooks into a huge brown trout and its heavier than the biggest king?  That would be a true trophy, but not qualify for a grand prize?  Why not promote the lake for the fine fishery that it is for all species...not just the king...

 

If you want to split a derby up for fairness, why not make a division for the weekend warriors?  Seems to me alot of the fish that end up on the boards come from charters....

[GAMBLER]

I think that it is harder to land a lake trout over 30 lbs because it is much harder to hook one.  There are many more salmon over 30 swimming around than lake trout.  I'm still a little confused on the reasons that the rules were changed but I will still continue to fish it.  I was a little shocked today to see that a laker that is .03 lbs larger than the Grand Prize Salmon on the board. 

Jeb,

 

I have been fishing Lake Ontario for 29 years and I have caught a lot of kings over 30lbs in that time frame.  I have only caught one Lake Trout over 30lbs with TONS of hours trolling lakers in the lake trout rich waters from Sandy Creek to Irondequoit Bay.  You are spot on.  Lake Ontario should be promoted as the ONLY body of water East of the Mississippi that you have the chance of catching a 35lb king, 30lb lake trout, 25lb brown trout, 20lb steelhead, 20lb coho and a 15lb atlantic.  Instead we have a narrow minded approach and crap on the species that hold the fishery together on bad king fihsing years.  Dave Chilson told me in an email that he is doing it to promote the salmon fishery, perserve the lake trout fishery (more 20lb lakers were killed this spring derby than the last 5 fall derbies combined) and because 60% of the przie money went to 5 different boats in the last fall derby.  He also told me the Counties West of Rochester want to promote the salmon fishery because Lake Ontario is one of the only healthy salmon fisheries in the US.  If you look back through the tourney section you will find the email posted in one of my posts.  The only way to get this changed is to let Dave know how you feel about it.  Send him an email.