Copper/lead core depths

[Don Supon]

Precision Trolling tables tell me 45# copper of 300' will give me a depth of 48 ft. at 2.0 mph. Need to know precisely what that means.

When run with side planers and I connect the board to the beginning of the backing, will the lure be at 48'? Can I get more depth by increasing the length of backing (say 50' or 100')? Any difference for lead core?

Lead core 27# at 2.0 mph charts for 5 colors to be 33' down. Could I reach 100' by giving more backing to the mix?

The 100'+ depths I wish to reach with either method appear to require w-a-y too much copper or lead core plus backing for reels to handle (let alone the fisherman). Are there REMOVEABLE weights available anywhere, ones I could remove from an inline placement (such as the Church TX44's) while fighting a fish? My thinking is to add lead weight to the backing start, and let the weight of the copper/leadcore take it further down to desired depths.

What do you guys think? Anyone doing something like this? Feel free to PM me if you don't wish to "go public". Thanks, Don

[steelydan]

stinger dive bombs are a removable weight with a dive bill like a crankbait. they come in all different weights and work very well with leadcore.

[Sk8man]

I would think that trying to let out more backing would not get you deeper because the lead core is much heavier than the backing and the leadcore will bow out itself at some point anyway and that would be pretty much it for depth. My strategy would be to add an inline weight at the point where the leader starts (maybe add a three way swivel etc. at that point) so that it will sink the leadcore itself. Maybe it would be worthwile to get one of the Fish Hawk TD's and check things out at intervals with it attached near the lure position and record where on the leadcore it was at that time and try different weights until you achieve what you want. I'd log it along with your speed on paper to review and keep track of it as it is a bit "laborious" :>)Divers might get you down a bit but they will not maintain consistent depth like the sinker approach as they are more "erratic" and go up and down as well as sideways (esp on turns)

Edited March 6, 2013 by Sk8man

[Don Supon]

Thanks guys! Just ordered 2 sets of Dive Bombers, think they will do what I want them to. I like how they attach to the line without damage and should be able to remove them from backing while fighting a fish.

[steelydan]

you will like them!!!

[momay4000]

Hey Don,

 

I think many/most of us think our lures are deeper than they really are based on the sink rate theroies handed down year after year by us fisherman (i.e. lead core sink rates of 4.5'/color, Dipsy dive rates of roughly 1/3 the amount of line out and now copper sink rates of 20 feet per 100' of copper). However, the reality is that it's not a linear relationship at all and this is proven in the Precision Trolling tables. Once you start having great distances of line out, i.e. 500-600' copper, 350'+ of wire, 20 color core, etc., I think you reach the point where you don't achieve much more in depth b/c of friction of the water and physics. This is the same thing that you see when your downriggers are down deep and the blowback gets worse. Although I don't own the newer Precision Trolling guide which looks at copper, I would imagine the change in depth between 500' and 600' copper is no more than 10' or so, and not a full additional 20'.

 

Every year I'm fascinated by "what lies in the deep waters" of our lake but like you I'm not sure how to get there without huge cannonballs on my riggers that my DR's can't retrieve or some sort of drop weights. A few years ago I experimented with Torpedo weights on lead core, but honestly I hated it and didn't see a change in my catch rate. I probably wasn't using it correctly, but I remember it seemed like a pain.

 

I love Sk8man's idea of drop weights and a three way swivel - please let us know if you try it and it works. I'm not sure how a heavy drop weight would work when pulled off a big board (i.e. would it track too far back?). I might also give the Stinger Dive Bombers that SteelyDan recommended.

 

I'm convinced that the biggest, baddest, meanest kings and lakers are living in the deep stuff and many of us haven't even scratched the surface of targeting these bad boys consistently.

 

Please keep us posted with your attempts at targeting the "creatures of the deep"!!

 

Good luck on the water,

 

- Chris

[Captain Carl Bish]

Copper and a 1# drop weight or monkey balls on 30# power pro will do the trick and you have a more sporty fight!, use a tin whistle or a jettison release.

[Don Supon]

My theory is that the big specimens stay deep  as long as they can find feed there. This spring  I'm going to give it a shot.  Purchased 2 sets of dive bombs, 8 oz +16 os. Plan is to run 5 colors of leadcore with each weight. TX 44 boards are the intended planers, but I'll have to determine if  they are able to handle that much drag. Want to target 100' plus and this way I might be able to get a wide and deep spread when used along with riggers.

 

It will get tested out as soon as spring trolling starts. Plan is to run out to 200 FOW or so and set it up without lures to see if the boards can pull it. And if they can, then I'll need to determine how deep they run. I'll post the results when I get the answers. Just want to give them something they are not used to that far down. 

 

[Sk8man]

If all fails and you still want to run that deep leadcore.... do it from a downrigger (without sinker etc.) at slower speeds it should angle down below where it is set at.... five colors out with the release atttached to the beginning section of the mainline. If it is that deep it shouldn't be a problem with your other stuff and that far out back wouldn't be "connected" with the boat (sort of like running off to the side from the boards would - only deep instead of horizontal). You'd have to tighten the release a bit though :>)

[Matthew]

There is so much I could write here about ways to get deep but first we need to know where our stuff is. I suggest getting a smarttroll unit to know the depth our stuff is. All of our gear is very speed dependant. At 3mph we are lucky to get our 600' copper deeper then 60' down. So we need to adjust our speed to get the presentation we desire but if we have no clue where our stuff is then we are fishing blind. Once we know how our presentations are reacting we are in control. BTW I have been extremely successful with 3 colors of lead with a torpedo diver ahead of the lead.

[Don Supon]

Matthew

Thanks for the tip about lead and torpedo diver. I've been following the postings about the smarttroll and it is under consideration for me. Even posted a question about it.

I have reservations though, because the price has been ignored whenever requested in posts. The product will be presented to LOTSA at our meeting this Thursday. Hopefully the price will be presented there and I can make a decision.