Stainless or Copper ???

[Shortdrift]

Last year was the first time I fished Lake Ontario out of Point Breeze. We did manage 22 fish, a mix of Kings, Coho and Steelhead. Found out that our Power Pro as used in Lake Erie was bad news with the flea problem so we went with copper on the Dipdy rods and mono on the downriggers.

I plan to be better prepared for this year and ask for your comments and reasons regarding the use of copper versus stainless on my Dipsy rods.

[goin deep]

Copper is to be run without a dipsey. Copper sinks approximately 20 feet for every 100 feet out. If you wanted to fish 60 feet down, you would let 300 feet of copper out. I run my copper down the chute with a 100 foot 20lb. mono leader. The stainless wire is for the dipseys. They are both good for not collecting many if any fleas. Good luck!!!!

Brian(Goin Deep)

[Fishtails]

Go with wire for the dipsey & copper as it's own setup. Personally, I wouldn't use the copper with a dipsey. Several problems come to mind, with the most obvious one being the different sink rate. Without doing tests, how whould you know your depth? Wire is around 3 to 1...right? That would not hold true if you used copper. Besides that, I'm not sure a copper knot could hold up over time to the stress of a dipsey strike.

If I were forced to use copper in that situation (say all my wire rods had bird nests :roll: ), I'd use a copper rig as a thumper rig long before I'd attempt using it as a dipsey rig.

[Billy V]

I wouldn't run copper with a Dipsy. It's designed to be run on its own. Most of us are running 45# (.037) copper (ATOMMIK sells reels already spooled with it or you can buy just the copper from him: http://www.atommiktrollingflies.com/reels.htm). The 45# will sink at a rate of about 20 ft per 100 feet out. The 600' copper rig I run will get a spoon down to about 120' when I have all of the copper in the water. You can run it down the chute as mentioned before or off of planer boards.

30# Stainless steel 7 strand wire is what we run for Dipsys. When using a standard sized dipsy set on a #2 setting, you can plan on the dive ratio being about 3:1, depending on your boat speed. So when you have 300' of wire out on a #2 you can guesstimate that it's down about 100 feet or so. 1000' of 7 strand 30# will fill a Daiwa SG47LCA perfectly.

If you don't have either of these setups I'd recommend getting a couple of wire dipsy setups first. They're deadly. After you master that you can tackle copper. Copper is finicky and requires a lot of looking after if you don't want to ruin it.

Hope this helps!

[Yankee Troller]

LMAO! Yeah you would know about ruinin copper now wouldnt you!!!!! Im sure my day will come. Anyway, What Billy V (Jim Rome) said is about everything you need to know. There are differnt types of SS wire that guys are using. Malin is proly the most popular brand. I use a 30lb 7 strand called American fishing wire in thier camo color. It is actually a thinner diameter than Malin, but you have to be very careful with this stuff becasue if it is left limp it will curl after its been used for half a season. I have no complaints other than that. I actually think it may go a little deeper than the malin becasue of the diameter, but I have never done any testing. Per their websites the American fishing wire is .012 and the Malin is .015 inches in diameter.

http://www.malinco.com/fishing/stainless_cable.html

http://www.americanfishingwire.com/

[Billy V]

LOL, yeah I definitely had to learn the hard way with copper!

[Fishtails]

Hey guys, on the subject of copper, I have a lil question. I am revamping my copper rigs this year. I bought 2 Penn 345 gti's, 1 Penn 340 gti and one Penn 330 gti. I also ordered a 2000' spool of copper from Tom.

My intent this year is to go with a 600, 400, 300 and 200 ( Last year I ran a 600 & 500 only)

My thinking is that the short ones, when run, would usually be off the boards. If I run 500 or 600 out, I have been running that out the shute as a tailgunner. So......I skipped out on the 500 figuring I would use the 600 for that situation, but only run out 500 of it and leave 100 on the spool. Do you see any problems in doing that? What do you guys do ?

Do any of you run your 500 or 600 off the board? If so, what's your hook-up ratio????

Thanks

[Yankee Troller]

During last years Sodus Pro Am I was running 1 500' off each board and a 600 down the chute. We doubled up first thing in the morning off each 500. Landed them both. I have also run all 600 off the board with no problem.

If I were you I would go with a 10 color instead of the 200'. It gets the bait 100' further behind the boat and the action on core is much better with the rise and sink on turns. With that being said You have 2000' that leaves you with enough to spool up other lengths greater than 200.

[Fishtails]

Hmmmm, since I have 2000 ft, maybe I'll just go ahead and add that 500. I figured with all that copper out, the hook-up ratio would be really poor off the board. I guess the mood of the fish on any given day would factor into that hook-up ratio.

What boards are you running the copper on, your big boards or small ones?

[Yankee Troller]

I dont personally own small inlines. I run otter boats like many of the copper gurus in Oswego run. They will pull 500 or 600' of copper no problem.

Copper dont stretch, so you should be able to get a good hook in them.

[Fishtails]

Thanx man, I'll give it a go this summer

[Shortdrift]

Thanks for the replys. Last year we used copper for the Dipsys and 20# mono on the downriggers. I'll have a new boat this year and plan to set it up as follows:

Two Dipsy rods with stainless wire.

Two downrigger rods with 20# mono unless you feel 25 or 30 would be better. Was also considering Fle Flicker mono.

One rod with copper.

I will run the Dipsys and donrigger of each side and the copper straight back. Is straight back what you refer to as the "chute"?

Any additional comments and suggestions will be appreciated.

[mike fronczak]

Copper or leadcore? Do they both accomplish the same thing with realitivly same amount out? What type of rods (rigger or dipsey) should they be run on. I would think with 5-600' there will be considerable drag. Thanks.

[ray koziatek]

naaaa no drag at all reels in like a piece of cake add a 20 lb fiesty salmon and youll have it in in no time.......

[Gill-T]

Billy, could you expand on "proper copper-care". I am getting together a couple of copper rigs and any tips to keep things from getting FUBAR'd would be appreciated.....copper ain't cheap.

[Billy V]

Sure thing....remember that copper is very soft. Keep tension on it when you're reeling it in. It twists and kinks very easily. You'll want to make sure that you keep it far, far away from your riggers and your dipsy divers. Biggest wad-up I've ever had was when an inline board had tripped and I didn't get on it right away and instead let the copper swing back behind the boat and it crossed over one of my dipsys..made a huge mess and I lost several hundred feet of copper.

[Yankee Troller]

Dont forget to let it out SLOW. It will sink so fast that it will curl the copper.

[Gill-T]

Ok, not to highjack this thread.....but..... .... what modifications to the otter boats do the "copper gurus of Oswego" recommend for pulling 600' of copper. I have heard various modifications to cause them to pull harder ie. change hole position, string length, and even a second add-on keel that some Michigan boys are running. Which is correct?

[dcso]

I ran 300' 30# of copper off two rods this summer and it was the most effective set up (didn't matter what I tied to the end of it) regardless of what ever else I put in the water. Im interested in hearing if anyone has used drop weights ahead of the copper to get down farther as opposed to adding more copper?

[Yankee Troller]

All you really need to do is make sure your string is the correct length on each side of the knot. I cant remember what they are off the top of my head, but there is no need to drill more holes in the boat or put in a dual keel. Although Im sure it would make them even better. If I remember the length or find a PM I sent someone during the season i will chime back in.

Didnt I PM you those measurments Gill-T?

[Gill-T]

I did not get your PM, sorry. I have the manufacture's suggested line length already established on my boats.....and they work fine, but I am doing a little fine tuning to get them to not sag behind while under a heavy load, like a dipsy w/ring or heavy copper.

[Fishtails]

Dsco....I use my wire dipsey rigs for dropper weights. I've never tried the copper rod, but I guess The copper would work. However, given the two choices, I personally prefer the wire rod.

It was a very good set up for me last summer once I started using it, but we use it as a thumper and didn't actually drop the weight. This year though, I have "echo friendly" weights that are safe to drop and contain no lead.

[dcso]

I am planning on adding two wire rods on a three setting off each side and one deep copper (90+ Ft or so so and one at 50 60 feet) off the back. now that i think of it mabe i'll run one copper off one rigger to get it down there deep. the fish are really boat shy so the longer the farther from the boat the better

ted

[dcso]

i've used 300' of 30# copper this year with great success for lakers and a few browns. question, to get it a little deeper could i run it off a downrigger down the chute. i had no sucess with the down riggers but honestly i had no time to monkey with them with the way the copper was producing.

[Yankee Troller]

I dont see why not. We do it with leadcore off the riggers.