Trailer Question -- Brake Improvement

[EarlyRiser]

I have a boat and trailer combination that is on the upper end of what my truck can tow and the last time I was returning from a 4 hour trip with the boat, the brakes on my truck got real hot coming down the big hill into my marina. The truck brakes are new and I have surge brakes on the trailer that I recently had serviced (and will double check to be sure they are working properly), but I am contemplating switching the hydraulic surge brakes out for electric brakes. Has anyone out there done this before that can shed some light on the labor or cost they incurred? From what I read, I will need new electric brake hubs, a new coupler, some wiring, a new wire connector to the truck, and a brake controller in the truck -- probably about $350-400 worth of parts.

 

Are there other options I am not considering (besides buying a new trailer or a new truck!)

 

What do you think?

 

Thanks,
Kyle

[JimB]

I worked for a company where we towed trailers with electric brakes quite often.  I'm not sure if surge breaks are a different beast, but the ones we used had a control unit in the cab that you could adjust

how hard the brakes would grab depending on the weight you were towing, (a spin wheel would turn up the "gain" on the brakes, and there was a sliding tab that you could use to manually engage the brakes. 

 

If yours has the same type of cab control, the best way to make sure they are working is to just start the trailer rolling, and then use the manual tab (slide it all the way to its stop) but not your truck brakes.  If your "gain" is set properly, your trailer will stop your truck, without the wheels just locking up completely.   If they lock up, adjust the wheel and try again.  

 

Not sure if this will help.

 

Jim

[Adk1]

i HAVE LOOKED into this as well. I was told that electric brakes on boat trailers are a no go. i.e. cause you get them wet allot?

[JimB]

Not sure if that would be true....the electric/magnet portion of the system will get just as wet driving in the rain I would guess, and

one would hope they wouldn't sell/install them on boat trailers if that were the case.

Edited July 1, 2013 by JimB

[Meals-On-Reels]

The whole surge brake system starts at the coupler (actuator) and ends at the hubs. No cab controls for them.

I ran my trailer a season without brakes and could feel it slowly killing my full-size truck. Just replaced the worn out surge brakes last week and now that they're functioning it's like night and day. I'd say you definitely have a problem with yours. Maybe out of adjustment, slight leak and fluid loss, or not bled properly.

You can test them by jacking up the trailer and spinning the wheels while somebody manually activates the actuator. You should be able to verify that they are working. They are adjusted like standard drum brakes through a "window" in the back side of the backing plate. I'd start by checking the fluid level and jacking it up to test.

The only thing to cause them not to work properly if they are perfectly functional is if the boat is way overweight for the trailer.

[landingzone]

You didn't mention if you have just one axle or more.  Some dual and triple axle trailers only have brakes on the front axle.  Adding brakes to the second axle would make a big improvement.

In any case, I think disc brakes are much more powerful than drums for this application.  There are kits to convert drums to discs.  They require a coupler specific for discs.

[EarlyRiser]

Just one axle.

 

Hadn't realized the potential conflict with electric brakes.

 

Will definitely double-check all the items to be sure the place did the brakes correctly.

 

Thank you all for your help so far. I welcome additional thoughts and ideas, too.

[landingzone]

You might want to check out this thread:

http://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-forum/139072-trailer-brakes-disc-vs-drum.html

[A*M]

Try jacking the trailer and spinning the wheel.  You shouldn't even be able to spin the wheel freely one revolution , even without applying the brakes.  If they spin around freely, you need to adjust them. Then keep forcing the wheel arouind and have someone hand actuate the brakes.  They should lock right up. This will tell you whether or not the lines were bled properly

[Mower]

We tow trailers all the time at work. Here is what we do. Run good quality rotors and ceramic pads. The are designed to take the abuse. Next install a tranny cooler in your truck. Lastly change your tranny fluid and run a semi or full synthetic. That being said drop your truck into 1st gear before the hill. Another trick is if it's a 4x4 then put it 4 low. Let the tranny be your brakes. Electric brakes on boat trailers are a no go. We tried it on an equipment trailer to get a small barge out of the water. The breaks worked intermittently till they dried out.

[EarlyRiser]

Thanks for all the helpful feedback, guys. I will jack it up and double-check function of everything. I suspect it wasn't working toward the end of this last trip and hopefully it's something minor, because I just put a bunch of money into getting the trailer all ready to go. If it's not right, maybe I will bring it right back to the guys who worked on it and see if they will make it right because it's only been a couple months and two trips since they worked on it.

[Adk1]

anyone know how the surge brakes work. Mine do not seem to work. is there like a hydrolic fluid in it?

[lineman49]

i HAVE LOOKED into this as well. I was told that electric brakes on boat trailers are a no go. i.e. cause you get them wet allot?

 X2- They will be submersed not just going down a wet rd.  I would go with disc brakes for best results.   Electric & water don't mix. ever!

[Meals-On-Reels]

anyone know how the surge brakes work. Mine do not seem to work. is there like a hydrolic fluid in it?

There are very few components-

- the hydraulic actuator is built into the coupler and is filled with fluid

- brake lines carry the fluid to each weel

- each wheel has a wheel cylinder that pushes the brake pads out to the brake drum

As for troubleshooting?

Check fluid level at the actuator (there is a cap over the reservoir)

If full and ok, pull both wheels and see if the wheel cylinder functions at each wheel (if someone manually operates the actuator you should see the piston inside the wheel cylinder push outward to operate the brakes

If all that functions, your brakes pads are either shot or out of adjustment. If it didn't function you either have a bad actuator, stuck wheel cylinders, cracked brake lines... Or something that let the fluid out. I had a leak that let the fluid out. I didn't fix right away and the actuator corroded inside and the wheel cylinders froze.

PM me if you want and I can point you in the right direction for parts for your trailer. I was clueless last year but did a few trailers since then and used some good online suppliers. It's actually pretty cheap to do yourself.

Edited July 2, 2013 by Meals-On-Reels

[John E Powell]

anyone know how the surge brakes work. Mine do not seem to work. is there like a hydrolic fluid in it?

 

In addition to what Meals-On-Reels wrote just above and to specifically answer your question about how they operate, the part of your hitch that you sinch up to your ball is like a break pedal in a car. When you go down the road with your trailer and you step on the brake pedal in your truck, the trailer wants to keep moving due to it's momentum. This weight pushes on your trailer hitch ball and the ball pushes back. The harder you step on the brake pedal, the more force is applied by your trailer to the hitch, and the more force is applied in the reverse direction back from the ball to the trailer. When the ball presses on the trailer hitch it's just like when you press down on your vehicle brakes with your foot. The rest of the system essentially works the same way as in your truck and as Meals-On-Reels described. The part of your trailer's hitch that works the brakes is called the actuator. It has a brake oil reservoir just like your vehicle. If you have a leak in your system, you will see either no oil or low oil when you remove the cap.  

 

If this is something that you would rather have a pro look at, then I suggest you take it to your local trailer dealer vs say a marina or boat dealer as they deal with the right trailer part companies to get you back on the road quickly. They should also be able to advise you if your existing system is up to the task your asking it to do or if you need some kind of upgrade.

 

There are few things more scary than a panic stop and a hefty underbraked trailer pushing you where you don't want to go. You or someone else's life could be on the line.

 

A correctly balanced trailer brake system should have your vehicle stopping in about the same distance as your vehicle without the trailer.

Edited July 2, 2013 by John E Powell

[Adk1]

I am pretty sure that I am just gonna take the trailer when the boat is off of it to my local garage and have them look into it. It needs to be inspected anyways and 4 tires put on it. that will be big $ but the 4 tires are from 1991! I don't see myself pulling that rig 3.5 hours down I90 from my house to Lake O.. Let me tell you the story of last September.. I make the deal to go from my house in Northville NY to Lake Erie to pick up the boat. I head out, get there, check it over, pay the guy in cash. Hook up to the boat, of course the trailer lights do no work. I figuring that this would happen, brought a spare temporary light kit with me. Well, unfortunately, the light kit doesn't extend all the way to the back of the trailer, only about to the farthest axl. so I find a spot and stick on the temp lights via magnet. Hook up the lights..Well, I have tail lights and that is it. no brakes no signals..so I have to travel basically 5 hours East on I90...its getting later in the day now mind you. Needless to say it was a hairy ride on the way home. Of course it was raining and dreary..I was very nervous that the tires would make it. They are original 1991 tires and there is allot of cracking in the sidewalls.. Fingers crossed I made it. Wont be doing that again though!

[tannero]

Either buy a tire and rim for a spare or keep and old tire and get it mounted on a spare rim. Just some advise. A flat always happens at the worse time and u can keep one of ur old ones to limp home

[Roughrider IV]

Buy an air power brake bleeder for brakes, best thing I have bought, I can't back up unless I use solenoid to block pressure. They work great.