Musky Catch and Release - Reasons, Tips, Questions and Experiences

[EsoxOnly]

Thanks for the ideas and the input guys.  I do not like to lift the fish out of the water in the net really but I had thought of that. I do have a digital scale and may consider buying a mechanical due to what you mentioned Muskiedreams.  I have also considered buying a cradle but worry about the fish slipping out of the open end and falling onto the boat floor while I am trying to read the scale. 

 I had never thought of using a bathroom scale, that's a great idea and would also make things speedy for the fishes sake.  As I take a quick photo I will be on the scale, release the fish and then weight myself.  I  probably wouldn't have came up with that idea. This forum and the helpful anglers that it is made up of is great!   Thank you again. Problem solved and I'm sure mama will be thrilled to see the bathroom scales go!  Lol  Its a win win

[Big fat pike]

From what i know and have read trolling the st lawrence river in october november and early december is best but especially october

[NPike]

On 8/22/2013 at 9:47 PM, old man said:

try fishing with the barbs of your hooks pinched down. most of the fish you net will get off the bait on their own in the net. safer for you and the fish.

This is critical and I  loose no fish  because of the  lack of a barb. Also  on most 5" to 7" crank-twitch baits I  remove the  center treble and replace  the front hook w a long shank and go up1 size. Lot less hooks to remove and the hooks are separated buy enough distance to prevent them from getting all jammed-cramped up inside thee  fishes mouth simultaneously." Its a lot east to remove a single treble than 2 or 3, especially w/o a barb.. And again I've yet to lose fish w/o the middle treble.

[Big fat pike]

Ok I will personally i was out with a guide and using his lures  have you tried owner inline replacement single hooks?

[Bozeman Bob]

Surprised no one has mentioned  a boga grip or similar tool with 6-10' of line attached to pull the Musky behind the boat. That method works 90% of the time with Kings ,which go belly up quicker than Musky's . 

[muskiedreams]

17 hours ago, Bozeman Bob said:

Surprised no one has mentioned  a boga grip or similar tool with 6-10' of line attached to pull the Musky behind the boat. That method works 90% of the time with Kings ,which go belly up quicker than Musky's . 

Muskies are not like salmon or trout. This is the reason why this conversation is at the top of the Musky forum.

 

You really don't know if the fish survives. Not all fish that die float.  It may just go to the bottom and die after you just performed what might be similar to forced hyperventilation. And physically, it is just as bad as a person being dragged behind a horse. But it is not as big of a deal because they live a short life. Muskies can live 20 to 25 or more years.  A musky hasn't even reached spawning age until well after a salmon has died. Also, a musky jaw is less durable than a salmon or trout jaw.

 

Just holding some fish with a boga grip or similar tool, especially a musky, can cause a jaw to be badly ripped (or other injuries) when the fish thrashes. It likely will greatly hamper the survival. Therefore, the use of a boga or similar tool is considered taboo among most musky anglers.

 

The biggest reason kings go belly up is the long fight. Mostly because of the length of line and sometimes also because of the quick rise from deep water. But also, there is usually no effort to keep the fight short. With musky fishing, the heavy rod reel and line, strong lures with strong hooks, and generally only a short amount of line out keeps the fight short and the fish isn't totally winded after it is netted. Salmon anglers don't generally keep the fish in the water for the release process, as most musky anglers do, to help keep the fish from suffocating.

 

I wonder if that when you drag a king that way, it may just sink to the bottom and die anyway. Some may survive, hence an occasional picture with a deformed jaw. But salmon survival after release just isn't as important due to the fact that it is primarily a put and take fishery of a very short lived fish that generally does not spawn successfully.

 

This is the reason why this conversation is at the top of the Musky forum.

 

[muskiedreams]

PS: Many musky trolling specialists and charter captains who fish big water for them with large spreads behind the boat use a large live-well revival tank onboard so that they can keep moving and revive the fish before release.

[Bozeman Bob]

 No , I do not know if after a King swims away when released  , diving into the depths , if it has a relapse and floats to the surface . I've yet to see any pop back up ,so I'm hopeful that it works . I use a wider tip ,plastic style boga , which goes over the lips and pinches the bottom of the mouth . Don't think that is going to deform a fish . 

  Yes ,the fights are different and the King is way more spent ,which means they are harder to revieve , so be it that they are stocked and have a 3 or so year life span . Kings also react negatively to being pulled from 45* water to 65+* , it can be a knock out punch to them . Those fish all survive when pulled behind the boat , sometimes for 5- 10 minutes . All the Muskies I caught back in the 90s ( or whenever the NMA was formed , original member . Can remember some harsh words from the first meeting , CR  vs kill and put on Hanks board . ) were extremely hardy fish , don't recall many ,if any , not swimming away after being caught . 

  Just making a suggestion and appreciate your reply and reasonings.  And I'm not suggesting you pick up the Ski with a boga grip , more of a last gasp measure in case she is spent when you gently place her back into the water . 

Edited November 25 by Bozeman Bob

[muskiedreams]

Times change, knowledge changes over time and so practices and methods change based on that knowledge and experiences.

 

I am not sure if you are telling me that you believe that the practices of the past were just fine and that changing to current practices made no difference in musky survival.

 

One key thing is that not all dead fish float. Just because a fish goes down when it is released and looks like it is swimming ok, does not mean that it has survived or will survive in the long run. Many fish sink to the bottom when they die. So if a fish dies after being released, it is not sure to float to the surface and be seen dead. And if you don't see it floating on the surface later, that doesn't mean that the fish survived.

 

When you see a fish floating, it is likely that it is dead or dying. So everyone associates a floating fish with being a dead fish. Fish that die and sink to the bottom most often are not seen. So many people believe that all dead fish float. It is simply not true.

 

I can understand trying to revive a trout on some waters where there is evidence of natural reproduction since trout live for multiple generations and may successfully reproduce but not for Kings on the Great Lakes.

 

The practice you suggest just doesn't make sense with muskies. A 15 or 20yo musky is much more precious than a 3yo king salmon. The accepted practice is to keep the fish in a large rubber coated net in the water by the side of the boat while removing/cutting the hooks. The net is used as a live well. Then if you want a picture and/or a board measurement, you should not have to keep the fish out of the water for (generously) more than 30 sec. Then put it back into the net or gently lower and hold the fish in the water by hand. Hold it there and keep it upright in the water until the fish shows it has the power to swim on it's own. It may take up to 20 min.

 

For larger boats it is more difficult if you cannot comfortably hold a fish off the side. That is why many of them use a revival tank as described above.

 

 

[Bozeman Bob]

Maybe I should reword my question ,statement . After trying to release the fish while still in the water ,let's say the hooks were not cooperating, then bring it aboard in a gurney type plastic neck , carefully removing the hooks while not touching the fish then gently putting it back in the water while holding it just above the tail ,then pulling it back and forth trying to get water going past the gills , the fish doesn't revive. Has anyone tried to put a plastic wide tip boga style grip over the lips and slowly ,as in 1mph , pull the fish through the water ? This works for me with other species of fish , with no apparent harm to them , no I don't have a underwater camera to verify they are not belly up laying on the bottom 5 minutes after I release them . I will assume 90 +% live a normal life after released that way . 

[4426]

5 hours ago, Bozeman Bob said:

. Has anyone tried to put a plastic wide tip boga style grip over the lips and slowly ,as in 1mph , pull the fish through the water ? 

 Are you trying to do this while still trolling? If trolling I would pull spread and still opt for the hand pulling/pushing method on reviving the fish WHILE boat is stationary. Do this until you feel confident fish can swim. If boat is moving your putting further stress on the fish when doing the push pull method. You can move plenty of water across gills doing this alone. It does take a significant amount of time sometimes. Also I’m curious on your boga grip method, are you bringing that line back in and then opening it and seeing the fish swim off while boat is stationary? Still trolling and leaving fish behind regardless(bad releases happen not trying to bash). How far behind boat? I’d certainly try it for my next laker trip if it works and I know a little more. I’d be concerned with this method for muskies due to their likeliness to thrash, thus resulting in damaged jaws, and for the same reasons musky shouldn’t be held vertically as their anatomy doesn’t allow for much vertical support(continuous pulling from mouth seems a little stressful imho). 

Edited November 26 by 4426

[muskiedreams]

The point is, a musky and a salmon are not the same. The only thing that is similar is that they are both fish.

 

Salmon are much more plentiful than muskies. A salmon dies after it spawns (most likely unsuccessfully). A musky grows slower and is not ready to spawn until is much older (about 7 to 10 yrs). They will spawn for many years after that and continue to grow larger. Loosing one adult musky from the population is conservatively like loosing 10s of thousands of adult salmon.

 

 

Salmon are stocked by the millions. in Lake Ontatio alone. NYS stocks only about 25,000 muskies per year statewide. Muskies live maybe about 6 to 8 times longer than a salmon but that doesn't even come close to offsetting the stocking difference. And then when you start talking about survival rate from frye or fingerling to maturity the numbers art even more bleak.

 

Here is a selection of videos from highly experienced musky anglers. All these videos bring up important points and support the methods outlined at the very beginning of this conversation string. Nobody ever mentions anything about using Boga type tools.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzvOComlT_E

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxG_iXiqHl4

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kyxn2J2kOMU

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBjD7T-s1pI

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asSQKszobp8

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asSQKszobp8

Edited November 26 by muskiedreams
corrected first link

[Bozeman Bob]

Maybe I

57 minutes ago, 4426 said:

 Are you trying to do this while still trolling? If trolling I would pull spread and still opt for the hand pulling/pushing method on reviving the fish WHILE boat is stationary. Do this until you feel confident fish can swim. If boat is moving your putting further stress on the fish when doing the push pull method. You can move plenty of water across gills doing this alone. It does take a significant amount of time sometimes. Also I’m curious on your boga grip method, are you bringing that line back in and then opening it and seeing the fish swim off while boat is stationary? Still trolling and leaving fish behind regardless(bad releases happen not trying to bash). How far behind boat? I’d certainly try it for my next laker trip if it works and I know a little more. I’d be concerned with this method for muskies due to their likeliness to thrash, thus resulting in damaged jaws, and for the same reasons musky shouldn’t be held vertically as their anatomy doesn’t allow for much vertical support(continuous pulling from mouth seems a little stressful imho). 

 Yes ,  I and many others use this method while trolling , it would take too long to pull the spread in and use the hand method . Which I did use while catching more than my fair share of Muskies over the years.  Your looking at planner boards , dipsey divers and riggers to bring in , about 9 rods most of the time . Figure 15-20 minutes to accomplish that , which means after a few minutes the fish is DOA ,waiting for the gear to come in . We use about 8 -10' of light line , put the grip on while it's on the deck , then drop it in . When it's kicking we pull it back to the stern , and release the grip without removing the fish from the water.  All I know is ,it's very very successful and was wondering if it could be applied to a Musky , IF all  the other methods didn't work .  Yes once in awhile you get one that doesn't make it , and yes most are stocked . I get all that , it's just a bad look having fish floating off your stern . And who knows if the fish we revived doesn't get caught again before it's time is up . Lakers are pretty hardy , don't bother with dragging them , they all swim away ,no matter how they are handled . Unlike Kings that faint at the sight of the boat ,haha , for the most part matures are somewhat fragile . 

[4426]

2 hours ago, Bozeman Bob said:

All I know is ,it's very very successful and was wondering if it could be applied to a Musky , IF all  the other methods didn't work . 

Gotcha thanks for the ideas. And I should have been more clear, what I was recommending was for musky and not other trolling species. Generally people don’t troll with as much gear out for musky so it’d probably be easier to stop the boat was my assumption. I certainly am not stopping my boat for walleye, salmon, or laker revival as mostly they end up in the cooler but would stop for a musky. Other thing while trolling musky, take your boat out of gear/slow wayyyy downs when hooked up, and use stout gear to hoarse the fish in. The musky won’t get as tired and more likely to survive as well, hopefully negating this whole conversation. Shorter the fight less lactic acid builds up in them. Also helps to only target during cooler months for best survival chances, hot water wears them out fast 

Edited November 26 by 4426