Loc derby

[Roughrider IV]

Question, been a long time since entering these things, how does it work with 2 younger children on board. Can they catch fish? They are under 10 years old. I know all adults on board need tickets. Thanks

[landingzone]

see #6 & 7 in the rules & regs:

http://www.loc.org/RULES_AND_REGULATIONS.html

[Roughrider IV]

Yea , I read that as kids under 10 cannot handle rods. If that's the case, I'm out.

Edited July 18, 2013 by Roughrider IV

[Adk1]

Dont blame you. They are the next generation of fishermen that are going to hopefully take care of the fishery in the future. Gotta have them involved ANY WAY WE CAN!

Edited July 18, 2013 by Adk1

[Guidewayneo]

Dont blame you. They are the next generation of fishermen that are going to hopefully take care of the fishery in the future. Gotta have them involved ANY WAY WE CAN!

We need children involved. This is a must if we want our children to grow up right. They should be allowed to participate no matter what age. The rule makes no sense. I say If they are capable of fishing let them fish. 3 years ago I had a 7 year old on my drift boat that could out cast and out fish most of the grown men I have guided.

Sent from my LG-VS700 using Lake Ontario United mobile app

[joe g]

this is a sore subject for me. my son just turned 9 in the end of june. we fish on average 20hrs a week. he is my fishing partner, my best friend, and one helluva fisherman. many charter captains have commented about his composure and attitude on the boat. if there is anyone who can call out a fish on faster than my son i would like to meet him! lol . he has solo brought in 27lb salmon. he takes hooks out, works the net, releases fish with more patience than most adults, cleans and filets fish. he even ties his own trolling flies.

 

before the  tourney i called and spoke with someone , at length, in the loc office regarding the 'youth' division (dont know the name as i never asked).  i was told that the only difference between the two divisions was entry fees and that they both fished for the same prizes. i asked if i could pay for him as a youth so we could be eligible and they said no. since he was under 10 he could be on the boat as an observer but not have anything to do with the landing of an eligible fish. 

 

the next day i was going out to derby fish with 2 other contestants. i had told my son that he could come, but we would have to get the poles first and once we knew that it was not a fish that needed to be weighed in then he could have the pole. his response was that he did not want to come then as it would be no fun for him, to which i completely agreed. knowing how much he loves fishing and seeing how disappointed he was i told him that he could come and fish how we normally do. needless to say we had a really good day and there were 3 derby worthy fish that we caught that day , all of which would still be in the money today, that we released and never weighed in due to them being 'ineligible' .

 

sorry for the long rant which i would have never brought up myself but since the subject is being talked about i wanted to add to it. i am not going to punish him for what accounts to a major chunk of the fishing season just because of a silly tournament rule.

 

the reason i fish is because of my son. the reason i own a boat is because of my son. the reason i   fish on lake ontario is because of my son. seems rather sad that i have to be ineligible for a tournament because i want to fish with my son.

 

but no prize money is better to me than seeing the look on his face when he is fishing

Edited July 18, 2013 by joe g

[joe g]

[Roughrider IV]

My grandson loves to CATCH fish, and I love to watch him. My daughter wanted to enter us while we are up for a week, I can tell her to save her money now. Seems to me tourney is losing out on entry fees with the rules in place. I'm also here for them. Good luck guys. I'll post some pictures of the kids next week, hopefully with some fish. Joe G you are a lucky father, the smiles say it all.

Edited July 19, 2013 by Roughrider IV

[rolmops]

It does not say that you cannot buy a derby ticket for kids under ten. Just buy a ticket and the problem is solved

[joe g]

It does not say that you cannot buy a derby ticket for kids under ten. Just buy a ticket and the problem is solved

You can buy it, but according to whom I talked to kt would be ineligible

[mudflat]

joe g,

 

    :yes:     

 

No tourney can replace time with your son, you shouldn't have had to make such a choice but you definitely made the right choice!!

 

Roy

[Gator]

Yup, I've raised this issue directly with Dave Chilson at the awards ceremony several times in the past. His reply to me (paraphrased) was that the intention of the rule was to prevent people from bringing kids on board just to run extra rods. Maybe this rule needs to go by the wayside, now that the three rod rule is in effect? He told me that as long as you aren't running rods for the kids, they can catch fish, they just can't enter fish they catch in the derby. 

 

I guess he doesn't think a kid under ten can actually catch a derby winning fish on his/her own. Regardless, I'm opposed to the use of the term "observer" in the rules, since this has a definite meaning under pro-am rules. That it, kids as observers shouldn't touch the rods at all. Having seen one of my good buddies disqualified for having his unregistered nephew (< 16 yrs old) on board, I'd hate to catch the winning fish only to have the "interpretation" change.

 

So, it seems like the choice is to fish the derby or fish with your kids. It's an easy choice, eh? It'd be nice if Dave would amend that rule or provide clarification on a public forum such as this one. It might avoid future misunderstandings, especially since there seems to be some confusion regarding what you can and can't do. Maybe somebody should e-mail this thread to Dave.

[Adk1]

Honestly, to satisfy the numbber of rods, just simply put a restriction on the maximum number of rods per boat no matter how many guys you have on it. Pretty simple.

[sea yea 2]

2009, 9 year old zane patrick wins the great ontario salmon derby with a 34+lb king. If he can do it why couldnt anyone else? Although i live on the north side i do agree your loc rules regarding kids fishing seem a little ridiculous.

Hopefully changes are made to keep the future generations involved. Good luck fellas

[GAMBLER]

 

Yup, I've raised this issue directly with Dave Chilson at the awards ceremony several times in the past. His reply to me (paraphrased) was that the intention of the rule was to prevent people from bringing kids on board just to run extra rods. Maybe this rule needs to go by the wayside, now that the three rod rule is in effect? He told me that as long as you aren't running rods for the kids, they can catch fish, they just can't enter fish they catch in the derby. 

 

I guess he doesn't think a kid under ten can actually catch a derby winning fish on his/her own. Regardless, I'm opposed to the use of the term "observer" in the rules, since this has a definite meaning under pro-am rules. That it, kids as observers shouldn't touch the rods at all. Having seen one of my good buddies disqualified for having his unregistered nephew (< 16 yrs old) on board, I'd hate to catch the winning fish only to have the "interpretation" change.

 

So, it seems like the choice is to fish the derby or fish with your kids. It's an easy choice, eh? It'd be nice if Dave would amend that rule or provide clarification on a public forum such as this one. It might avoid future misunderstandings, especially since there seems to be some confusion regarding what you can and can't do. Maybe somebody should e-mail this thread to Dave.

_{Quoted from topic: Loc derby}

 

The only way to get this changed is to make our voice heard.  Email him, start a poll get others to do the same.  Atleast lower the age some.  A 6 year old should be able to handle Lake Ontario fish as long as they have done it before.  I can see not having full divisions because of the cheating that used to go on.  Do something simple like pass out trophies and fishing tackle.  Avon Anglers ice derbies lets kids enter and gives every kid that participates a piece of icefishing equipment.  All kids get a raffle ticket at each derby and they draw a ticket at the last derby for an ice tent.  Kids are the future of this fishery.  We NEED them involved. 

[reelintense]

It is a shame, and one in a long list of changes that I would like to see with the LOC.  I do understand the rule when it was 2 rods per person and people were bringing kids on board just to legally run more rods.  I DO NOT believe any LOC derby should be limited in the number of poles per boat, given the charters and other large boats running 12-15 rods at a time because they can and their duty is to get people into fish, and if it becomes a derby potential fish, it would be unfair to disqualify because of rods.  ANY individual regardless of age, fun loving, religion, race, political affiliation...etc    should be allowed to purchase an entry and fish the derby, if they are capable of landing the fish on their own.  PERIOD    I think any witness to a minor should be an adult, so that two minors are not witnessing for each other and ensuring maybe some integrity......if that is LOC's concern as well?  I dont know..... But I agree the rules need to be modified.  i am lucky as my son is now 15, and i dont have to worry about it.....but he didnt derby fish until he was 10, because of it.  When we fished, we fished for fun!  AND THAT IS MORE IMPORTANT than anything!  :)

[Adk1]

good point on your comment on my comment about a rod limit. I didnt take into consideration the charters profiting  due to chartering a group etc..Those charter captains and crew have to make $$ too!

[Roughrider IV]

My daughter ran into guy running the tourney at screwy Louie's shop, he told her you can pay half price for under 10 children, if so, why is this not in rules posted somewhere. He blamed people that loaded their boat with children for extra rods. I guess he has not fished with a handful of kids on board yet. We decided not to enter.

[Fishtails]

I have always had a problem with this rule also. It has been in place long enough that I hold out little hope for change, but it's a shame. Sometimes, we just have too many rules. If someone takes a child fishing just to run a few extra rods, why is that a bad thing? As long as the child is a paid derby contestant, I personally don't see how that can possibly be bad? Take a buddy or wife for two rods is ok, take a child and it's not ??? I would rather see a child being taken on a fishing trip with his dad for the benefit of extra rods, than see that child stay home playing video games.

It is obvious those in charge have no children, plain and simple. Right now, my son leads the youth division Salmon. It's his 3rd fish on the board this summer. I explained he won't get anything for leading youth if it sticks and he thinks it's rediculous, but he's ok with it because he has won so many other awards in other fishing events. That being said, he has no interest in fishing the LOC with me for this reason. He just happened to catch ihis loc fish while we fished the Pro Am.

All I can say is make yourself heard, and fish tournaments that support youth fishing instead!

Edited July 24, 2013 by Fishtails

[panfisher]

Joe g....I'm with u 100%.....!! For all of the reasons stated by you and others, these age limitations need to be changed. With voices expressing this issue, I'll bet we can get the rules changed for next season. And then your son, and yourself, even though he would be of age for the summer session, can feel good that y'all contributed greatly to the opening up of the derby! And I'll bet the derby sponsers would be glad too..........a win-win for all (excepting the fish ....)!

Edited July 24, 2013 by panfisher

[Fishtails]

 

The only way to get this changed is to make our voice heard.  Email him, start a poll get others to do the same.  Atleast lower the age some.  A 6 year old should be able to handle Lake Ontario fish as long as they have done it before.  I can see not having full divisions because of the cheating that used to go on.  Do something simple like pass out trophies and fishing tackle.  Avon Anglers ice derbies lets kids enter and gives every kid that participates a piece of icefishing equipment.  All kids get a raffle ticket at each derby and they draw a ticket at the last derby for an ice tent.  Kids are the future of this fishery.  We NEED them involved. 

 

I have emailed Dave 3 times already,  can't seem to get a response from him.  I agree with keeping it simple and I don't think any cash should be involved in youth. But, there should at least be trophies or certificate or product.  Tons of sponsors would donate, so it's obviously a personal choice by the LOC, not a monetary decision. In The Sodus Pro Am, my son won a pair of Maui Jim Sunglasses for big youth fish and he was sooooo happy!!  He won't take them off    I have made about 10 people that fished on my boat this season buy a LOC ticket in order to fish with us.  Those folks would have otherwise never paid for an LOC entry, but I required it.That's a couple hundred bucks extra I got Dave. We all do that, but do ya think I can get an email response from him....nope.

 

 

[MWOLF451]

Sounds like it is time for a leadership change. If so many people disagree with this rule, then it should be re evaluated. I agree that the younger people are the next generation of fishermen and women. If you give them a bad taste now, where is that going to lead in the future. I also disagree with eliminating Lake Trout from the Derby. It seems like everything was fine until a 34 Lb. Laker was caught and had the possibility of winning the LOC. A Salmonoid is a Salmonoid. And I do not want to hear that too many 20+ Lb. Lakers are being killed. Lake Ontario has the biggest Laker Avg. in any of the Great Lakes.

[joe g]

just got my latest cc statement. same as rodney, i had almost $200 in charges this month alone from people fishing with me that i made sign up for one day passes. 

[HallettB&T]

We would gladly step up and donate the awards for the youth. But I do believe there is a higher political agenda going on.

[GAMBLER]

We would gladly step up and donate the awards for the youth. But I do believe there is a higher political agenda going on.

While we are at it lets get the lake trout division back and allow us to weigh in fish the next morning. Maybe we should put together a petition?